The power of habit - just doing what you've always done

A large number of those that go to church come only because it is their custom to do so. Perhaps they hardly know why they go to a place of worship. They go because they always did and they think it wrong not to go. They are just like the doors which swing upon their hinges. They take interest only in the exterior parts
of the service—into the heart and soul of the business they do not enter—and cannot enter. They are glad if the sermon is rather short, there is less boredom for them then. They are glad if they can look around and gaze at the congregation—they find in that something to interest them. But getting near to the Lord Jesus is not the main reason they come. Instead, they come and they go. They come and they go—and it will be so
until, eventually, they will come for the last time and they will find out in the next world that the means of Grace were not instituted to be matters of custom—and that to have heard Jesus Christ preached and to have rejected Him is no trifle, but a solemn thing for which they will have to answer in the Presence of the great Judge of all the earth!

Others there are who come to the House of Prayer and try to enter into the service and do so in a certain fashion, but it is only self-righteously or professionally. They may follow church teachings: be baptized and they may even join the Church. They may do all sorts of activities and enter many leadership roles. To them, to read, to sing, to kneel, to hear and so on are enough.
These are the many, no matter into what Church or meetinghouse you enter. They are in the press around Jesus, but they do not touch Him. They come, but they come not into contact with Jesus. They are outward, external hearers only, but
there is no inward touching of the blessed Person of Christ, no mysterious contact with the ever-blessed Savior, no stream of life and love flowing from Him to them. It is all mechanical religion. Of vital godliness, they know nothing.

I know the above words from Spurgeon a preacher from the last century are still true today because I was one of these I've just described, and even after fully trusting my soul to the complete salvation of Jesus the temptation to follow these ways is ever present.

true liberty wrote:

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I know the above words from Spurgeon a preacher from the last century are still true today because I was one of these I've just described, and even after fully trusting my soul to the complete salvation of Jesus the temptation to follow these ways is ever present.

I go to chuch because Padre Francisco needs a token white guy in his congregation.

This is such a strange complaint of Believers...that other believers should be in a constant state of extreme involvement in their worship.

I highly doubt that Spurgeon or any who write these pieces - are as extreme in their worship all the time as they wish it to sound...

We all suffer from lackluster days, weeks, months - be it work, worship, relationships, hobbies, etc...but it if we keep on keeping on we usually come out of it.

Its human to not be all there, all the time! And if this God doesnt understand such things about his own creations - he's as clueless as people like Spurgeon.

Punisher wrote:

This is such a strange complaint of Believers...that other believers should be in a constant state of extreme involvement in their worship.
I highly doubt that Spurgeon or any who write these pieces - are as extreme in their worship all the time as they wish it to sound...
We all suffer from lackluster days, weeks, months - be it work, worship, relationships, hobbies, etc...but it if we keep on keeping on we usually come out of it.
Its human to not be all there, all the time! And if this God doesnt understand such things about his own creations - he's as clueless as people like Spurgeon.

I don't know about Spurgeon but people can devote their whole lives to the greater glory of God so everything they do worships Him. I'm not just talking about Father Damien but just plain ordinary people.

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

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I don't know about Spurgeon but people can devote their whole lives to the greater glory of God so everything they do worships Him. I'm not just talking about Father Damien but just plain ordinary people.

So when I'm chopping vegetables, or mowing the lawn or taking a dump I can offer them up to this God...!?!?!

Does this God really care?

Isnt this the height of the Human Believer Ego, that this God cares about every little move we make?

Its always about us humans isn't it?

Punisher wrote:

<quoted text>So when I'm chopping vegetables, or mowing the lawn or taking a dump I can offer them up to this God...!?!?!
Does this God really care?

Well, yes. Taking a dump. They're probably thanking God for the ability to do so.

I'm not speaking to the benefits of this behavior. I'm simply saying they're around you and you can't see them.

Don't jump to conclusions. I can't see them either.

I wonder how many 'Christians' use church as kind of an insurance policy, just in case.

Don't think anyone has made a claim.

Sceptical_Mal wrote:

I wonder how many 'Christians' use church as kind of an insurance policy, just in case.
Don't think anyone has made a claim.

Many people use their church attendance this way - to gain brownie points for heaven. But the problem is any man-powered effort to earn heaven will not merit entrance there. It must take Divine power. Only Jesus's sacrifice and our trust in it is the claim needed.

Punisher wrote:

Isnt this the height of the Human Believer Ego, that this God cares about every little move we make?
Its always about us humans isn't it?

Well, we'd be hopeless on our own -- and yes the God that created all and created humankind does care about us and is not an impersonal force and is not a God who creates and winds up creation like a clock and then leaves it to its own whims and desires. This should humble us not puff us up.

Punisher wrote:

This is such a strange complaint of Believers...that other believers should be in a constant state of extreme involvement in their worship.
I highly doubt that Spurgeon or any who write these pieces - are as extreme in their worship all the time as they wish it to sound...
We all suffer from lackluster days, weeks, months - be it work, worship, relationships, hobbies, etc...but it if we keep on keeping on we usually come out of it.
Its human to not be all there, all the time! And if this God doesnt understand such things about his own creations - he's as clueless as people like Spurgeon.

I think you somewhat miss the point of the quote -- the lack of "extreme involvement" as you put it, or actually lacking the knowledge of exactly why you go to church and serve there - points to a dire lack of heart love for the Savior and misunderstanding of true salvation in Christ. A true Christian will never go to church simply out of habit alone all the time (though the temptation is there as I indicated)- and will have the right motive and purpose.

Being on the periphery - around some activities near Christ --- but not entering into really knowing about who Christ is and what He's done for you - yes that is the main point of the quote.

We are so used to being on the outside and not really getting at the core of what really matters ---

true liberty wrote:

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Well, we'd be hopeless on our own --

Speak for yourself bead-mumbler boy and don't go projecting your own percieved inadequacies onto others.

true liberty wrote:

<quoted text>
and yes the God that created all and created humankind does care about us and is not an impersonal force and is not a God who creates and winds up creation like a clock and then leaves it to its own whims and desires.

I take it you are not referring to the deity of the bible then?

true liberty wrote:

<quoted text>
This should humble us not puff us up.

IMHO all one needs to do is understand ones relationship to the universe. Doing so leaves one able to get on with life without having to depend on a voyeuristic, invisible friend.

Sceptical_Mal wrote:

I wonder how many 'Christians' use church as kind of an insurance policy, just in case.
Don't think anyone has made a claim.

That's Pascal's Wager and I don't think getting to heaven can be reduced to a crap shoot.

I go to church for the air conditioning and the boobs, not necessarily in that order.

true liberty wrote:

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Only Jesus's sacrifice and our trust in it is the claim needed.

Not so, according to the words of JESUS HIMSELF in Matthew 25:31-46.

Those who "go off into eternal life" are those who have done selfless good works, regardless of any "belief in Jesus."

Likewise, those who "go off into eternal punishment" are those who have FAIELD to do good works, apparently regardless of any belief component.

Words of Jesus himself in your Holy Bible.

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, yes. Taking a dump. They're probably thanking God for the ability to do so.
I'm not speaking to the benefits of this behavior. I'm simply saying they're around you and you can't see them.
Don't jump to conclusions. I can't see them either.

Oh I get it...I just dont get it. Does this God really care about the minutiae of our lives...? Or is it the Human Believer Ego that he's transfixed by every move we make...inc. a dump...?

true liberty wrote:

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I think you somewhat miss the point of the quote -- the lack of "extreme involvement" as you put it, or actually lacking the knowledge of exactly why you go to church and serve there - points to a dire lack of heart love for the Savior and misunderstanding of true salvation in Christ. A true Christian will never go to church simply out of habit alone all the time (though the temptation is there as I indicated)- and will have the right motive and purpose.

No, I get the nuance of the point. But its impossible for every human to be on-point - about anything in their lives - all the time. Its simply absurd to even consider the idea.

But if someone decides that they need to give Church a break, because its become rote - than they face the sin of not honoring the Sabbath (which BTW I dont think many, if any American Xtians do at all) and have to figure what to do to honor that requirement.

You know sometimes just showing up is enough to show respect...like with Family. Sometimes you just gotta do the holidays, the birthdays, etc to simply show respect...and sometimes if you just show-up, you don't know how you will react...maybe you get into it when you thought you wouldn't and then out of no-where an epiphany hits. Like exercise, you just got to do it if you expect any results...the results don't happen when you're only doing it when 100% psyched up and digging each and every moment - as any dedicated athlete will tell you, as I'm telling you now. Rote is what gets you thru...its what gets you to the mountain top.

But my other basic point - which I think you missed as well - is that Xtians need to stop always telling other Xtians how to hold faith, how they need to perform, etc - and mind their own path, not everyone around them. Because maybe you're deflecting your own issues on everyone around you, huh? That's the priest/preachers job in the Church.

A real Xtian stops trying to tell every other Xtian why they are or are not True, like them. Mind your own path, not others...their path wont get you your reward...only yours will! You cant judge people as to how to walk their path, or even where they are on it...as its not YOURS! The one you accuse of being habitual might be doing the same to you...or they might just be in a slump, as you might have or will be...

Get it?

true liberty wrote:

Being on the periphery - around some activities near Christ --- but not entering into really knowing about who Christ is and what He's done for you - yes that is the main point of the quote.
We are so used to being on the outside and not really getting at the core of what really matters ---

Again this is simply an empty collection of words.

We? No You. ONLY YOU know what is "in and out" for YOU! Not for anyone else.

Every person, believer or not, cant be in the same place at the same time in their journeys. Not on their career, not in the relationships, not in their spiritual journey...its simply impossible.

But Believers like you - who think you've figured it all out (and actually only for you)- sit there telling others what they should be doing and worse where they should be on their PERSONAL, wholly individual Relationship with this God of yours.

Your "core of importance" is not mine, nor your neighbors, nor your partners - its yours...!

You want to get inside, than burrow on down into your head and figure out why it is your obsessed with telling others they're NOT TRUE Xtians...! The only "inside" you need be concerned with and can do anything about is your own.

God (at Judgement, looks down at his book, than over his glasses looks at you) "So...I see here you didn't get to the core of your own life...never dug too deep into your self...why?"

You; "I, uh...I was busy worrying about what others were or weren't doing according to my set of rules...?"

(snickers heard from the minion galley)

God; "Were those my rules? Did I task you such duties, did I provide you with my progress reports on others...did I ever invite you into their private interactions with me...?"

The OP misses that the ONLY point any fellow Xtian can tell another or remind them of - is; "are you paying attention?" Thats it. Thats really all that any of us can do for anyone else. Believer or not.

But you cant do it IF you're not paying attention either, or you're telling others to pay attention because YOU think its your job, and/or that you have any stake in whether someone else is paying attention or not.

I remember a long time ago when at Mass the Priest walked to the lectern, slowly scanned the crowd, put both hands on the lecterns top, hunched a little at the shoulders and said; "Are you paying attention?" Than let it linger. Repeated it again, because now he had most of the crowds attention.

Than one more time, "Are YOU paying attention?" Continued his crowd scan and after what was a long minute - walked back to continue the mass.

Simple, pithy and it spoke volumes.

I still recall it as one of the more memorable sermons I ever sat for...

Gillette wrote:

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Not so, according to the words of JESUS HIMSELF in Matthew 25:31-46.
Those who "go off into eternal life" are those who have done selfless good works, regardless of any "belief in Jesus."
Likewise, those who "go off into eternal punishment" are those who have FAIELD to do good works, apparently regardless of any belief component.
Words of Jesus himself in your Holy Bible.

We've gone through this before Gillette -getting a little tedious at this point- Jesus said a lot more things that fully explains this one quote in Matthew. Yes the living faith in the full salvation of Jesus will indeed bring out the good works that Matthew 25 shows - and that's why the book of James later says faith without works is dead, why we compare the "grace and faith without works needed to earn salvation" message of the book of Romans with the "faith without works is dead" message of the book of James.---- and its also why you should compare the "do good works and go to eternal life, go to punishment not doing good works" message of Matthew 25 with the very detailed "believe in Jesus so you will know you have eternal life" message of the Gospel and epistles of John etc.

Matthew 25 true "regardless of any faith component"??!!- then you only "apparently" have eyeglasses that only see one little snippet of the Bible to thrust on people. Please come out and enter the new world of the true perspective.