Bible God Jesus vs. Pagan Osiris vs. Persian Mithra

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Phil McKrackin

Garden Grove, CA

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#379
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Jammercolo wrote:
All the same just god's made by man.
It like bugs bunny vs daffy duck vs road runner.
Okay, I confess road runner would win. He's got speed and brains.
RR definitely had the edge in the speed dept, but Bugs was an MIT graduate cum laude! He is definitely smarter than anyone who believes that humanity started less than 5000 years ago in a garden with a talking snake and a rotten fruit.

A few things to consider before cursing me to burn in hell.....

Why is God a he? The purpose of gender is so species of life can reproduce sexually. If God has a gender, then it doesn't make sense that "he" would be a "God", but instead, a man.

In the book of Genesis, it specifically says "...Let us make man in our image..." but I thought there was only 1 God, not multiples. It also says in the book of Genesis that the sons of God mated with the daughters of Man. Why would God(s) mate with humans?

The only link between Jesus' death and the writing of the New Testament are the teachings of Paul the Apostle, aka Saul of Tarsus. The problem with his accounts are that he never refers to Jesus as being an actual living person. He only refers to Jesus in spiritual form. Saul had no knowledge of anything he did during his life, no knowledge of Mary and Joseph, the miracles he supposedly did, the last supper, the treachery of Judas, etc. If Jesus was ever a living being that walked the earth, the no one bothered to tell Saul that.

And how did Noah get the lion on the ark? If he would have came within 10 feet of a lion, he would have been a dead man. And what did the lion eat for 40 days and nights? It surely didn't eat the 1 male and 1 female deer on the boat, or their species would have went extinct!

But the biggest problem religion poses, in my opinion, is that most religious people believe that their savior will come sometime during their lifetime, which also indicates the end of the world. So, if people believe that the world will end in their lifetime, doesn't that diminish any desire to attempt to preserve this world and all life on it for future generations?? It's not just a prophecy, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The world of humans will end alright, but because we are so out of touch with it and treat it like garbage.

“America Interrupted!”

Since: May 11

New York, New York

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#380
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Phil McKrackin wrote:
<quoted text>
RR definitely had the edge in the speed dept, but Bugs was an MIT graduate cum laude! He is definitely smarter than anyone who believes that humanity started less than 5000 years ago in a garden with a talking snake and a rotten fruit.
A few things to consider before cursing me to burn in hell.....
Why is God a he? The purpose of gender is so species of life can reproduce sexually. If God has a gender, then it doesn't make sense that "he" would be a "God", but instead, a man.
In the book of Genesis, it specifically says "...Let us make man in our image..." but I thought there was only 1 God, not multiples. It also says in the book of Genesis that the sons of God mated with the daughters of Man. Why would God(s) mate with humans?
The only link between Jesus' death and the writing of the New Testament are the teachings of Paul the Apostle, aka Saul of Tarsus. The problem with his accounts are that he never refers to Jesus as being an actual living person. He only refers to Jesus in spiritual form. Saul had no knowledge of anything he did during his life, no knowledge of Mary and Joseph, the miracles he supposedly did, the last supper, the treachery of Judas, etc. If Jesus was ever a living being that walked the earth, the no one bothered to tell Saul that.
And how did Noah get the lion on the ark? If he would have came within 10 feet of a lion, he would have been a dead man. And what did the lion eat for 40 days and nights? It surely didn't eat the 1 male and 1 female deer on the boat, or their species would have went extinct!
But the biggest problem religion poses, in my opinion, is that most religious people believe that their savior will come sometime during their lifetime, which also indicates the end of the world. So, if people believe that the world will end in their lifetime, doesn't that diminish any desire to attempt to preserve this world and all life on it for future generations?? It's not just a prophecy, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The world of humans will end alright, but because we are so out of touch with it and treat it like garbage.
You are very smart, Mr. Phil!
Phil McKrackin

Garden Grove, CA

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#381
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Livingstone1983 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you claim the Lord Jesus Christ is not real, then I challenge you...unless you're too scared...to call upon His name, "Oh, Lord Jesus, I love You! I ask You to save me. Come into my life and my heart so I may be filled with You!" After you do that, your life WILL be changed...unless you're too scared.
Livingstone1983 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you claim the Lord Jesus Christ is not real, then I challenge you...unless you're too scared...to call upon His name, "Oh, Lord Jesus, I love You! I ask You to save me. Come into my life and my heart so I may be filled with You!" After you do that, your life WILL be changed...unless you're too scared.
Then I challenge you...unless it is you who are really scared...to call on the ancient lord Mithra, "Oh dearest of Lords Mithra, I call upon you to enter my heart and change my life!" And I guarantee you that after that, your life will change, unless you are scared.

Which scenario is scarier?
1. When you die you go to heaven and live in eternal bliss with God/Jesus who will make everything right and love you.
or
2. When you die your body decays into nothing and most of the people still living never even knew you were alive?

If your motivation for believing the story of God is self-preservation so that you can get into heaven, then that itself is a selfish act. Not very Christ-like...sounds more like human nature than divinity to me. And besides, let's say you do make it into heaven (which btw literally means "sky") and your life partner or parent or child gets sent to hell. Wouldn't that be a kind of hell itself knowing that your loved one(s) is/are burning in hell for an eternity and suffering and there was nothing you could do about it? I guess not if you are selfish already...

Religion is a mental prison and a detriment to the survival of humanity.
Sola Scriptura

Logan, WV

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#382
Apr 27, 2012
 

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Phil McKrackin wrote:
<quoted text>
RR definitely had the edge in the speed dept, but Bugs was an MIT graduate cum laude! He is definitely smarter than anyone who believes that humanity started less than 5000 years ago in a garden with a talking snake and a rotten fruit.
A few things to consider before cursing me to burn in hell.....
Why is God a he? The purpose of gender is so species of life can reproduce sexually. If God has a gender, then it doesn't make sense that "he" would be a "God", but instead, a man.
In the book of Genesis, it specifically says "...Let us make man in our image..." but I thought there was only 1 God, not multiples. It also says in the book of Genesis that the sons of God mated with the daughters of Man. Why would God(s) mate with humans?
The only link between Jesus' death and the writing of the New Testament are the teachings of Paul the Apostle, aka Saul of Tarsus. The problem with his accounts are that he never refers to Jesus as being an actual living person. He only refers to Jesus in spiritual form. Saul had no knowledge of anything he did during his life, no knowledge of Mary and Joseph, the miracles he supposedly did, the last supper, the treachery of Judas, etc. If Jesus was ever a living being that walked the earth, the no one bothered to tell Saul that.
And how did Noah get the lion on the ark? If he would have came within 10 feet of a lion, he would have been a dead man. And what did the lion eat for 40 days and nights? It surely didn't eat the 1 male and 1 female deer on the boat, or their species would have went extinct!
But the biggest problem religion poses, in my opinion, is that most religious people believe that their savior will come sometime during their lifetime, which also indicates the end of the world. So, if people believe that the world will end in their lifetime, doesn't that diminish any desire to attempt to preserve this world and all life on it for future generations?? It's not just a prophecy, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The world of humans will end alright, but because we are so out of touch with it and treat it like garbage.
Well, that's about ignorant.
Sola Scriptura

Logan, WV

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#383
Apr 27, 2012
 

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This thread is old news and has been debunked time and again.

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/pagan_philoso...

During the period running roughly from 1890 to 1940, scholars often alleged that the early Christian church was heavily influenced by such philosophical movements as Platonism and Stoicism. Special attention was given to the Jewish philosopher Philo (d. A.D. 50) whose thought, it was claimed, can be traced in the use of the word logos as a name for Jesus Christ in the early verses of John's Gospel.

Largely as a result of a series of scholarly books and articles written in rebuttal, allegations of early Christianity's dependence on pagan philosophy began to fade in the years just before the start of World War II. Today, in the early 1990s, most informed scholars regard the question as a dead issue. These old arguments, however, continue to circulate in the publications of a few scholars and in the classroom antics of many college professors who have never bothered to become acquainted with the large body of writings on the subject.
Nod

Montréal, Canada

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#384
Jun 12, 2012
 

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Has anyone thought about entering all this on Wikepedia? They will accept anything.
Abrahamfan

Albuquerque, NM

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#385
Jun 22, 2012
 

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HORA and MITHRA so similar to Jesus? First, I cannot find so MANY similarities as you list here! "Crucified?" Psalm 22:"They have pierced my hands and feet"--do you mean ROMAN CRUCIFIXION? Because that wasn't always done. Only a few superficial similarities were actually found. Finally, you give NO REFERENCES, but in the room left, lets start.

First, Read secular historian Will Durant and others who confirm the existence of Jesus. Jewish & pagan historians of Jesus' day tried to explain the strange "darkness and earth tremors" on the day Jesus died-but didn't deny his death (Thallus, 52 A.D.). They tried to smear Mary-saying she had been with a Roman soldier, but didn't deny her being his mother! There's not enough room for all the evidence! See also: Josephus, the Talmud,Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, and others...

The few REAL "similarities" to "mystery cult" gods are SUPERFICIAL as those used to compare the assassination of Lincoln to Kennedy to "spook" people: Their assassins both had three names! Etc... Early Christian writers ADMITTED Jesus' birth was not in December,but chose that day for it's appeal. They were very honest about it. The question is,"Who ARE the mystery "gods" --REALLY?

>HORA's story has many VERY different versions, but best known as the "FALCON GOD" with the head of a BIRD and body of a man... a god of Pharos, not the "poor in spirit" or a healer. NOT known as a carpenter, suffering Savior, hard to see "baptism"-just go to any page on the history of Egypt. He was not prophesied by years of Scripture--it gets ridiculous. Also try comparing N.D.E's to the "Book of the Dead." It's almost impossible to see a true resemblance.

>MITHRA was not the origin of the EUCHARIST/MASS. The "Lord's Supper" was the Passover meal which Jews had celebrated to remind them of deliverance from Egypt, going back to MOSES! That's a very, very long time...

THE LORD'S SUPPER: In JEWISH homes at Passover, ONE of three pieces of unleavened bread (matzah) is traditionally broken in half, wrapped in a napkin, hidden, and later found by the children to be returned to the "Abba" of the feast or is served as the last food. The broken piece is called the "afikomen" and symbolizes the Passover lamb. It is pierced and covered with stripes just as you see it in stores today (Jesus was "pierced" and covered with "stripes by the way). Jews from Middle Eastern countries saw the afikomen as having some special power. The Afikomen was the matzah Jesus blessed and "broke"--saying "THIS is my BODY!" Mithra had nothing to do with it.

FormerChristian

United States

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#386
Sep 10, 2012
 

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Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, that's about ignorant.
No he has the basics figured out. How is this for ignorant? I build my house on a cliff and tell my children not to play in the yard because they will fall to their death! I know they will fall because I'm all knowing but I say it's their fault because they didn't listen to me. Now I say there is only one way to fix this! I must wait thousands of years and violate a virgin and impregnate her with a man God that's main purpose is to be tortured, killed, resurrected and float up into the sky! Then if you believe this nonsense you will live forever but if you don't your body will rot in the ground but your soul will travel to hell to get a new body so it can feel pain and I can roast it for all of eternity! Amen

The Ark myth will not pass examination by a 5th grader. The bible was written by men with no inspiration from any God which is why they had no idea how many species were on the earth. Speaking of absurd arguments, consider how a ship 450 feet long by 75 feet wide could house two each of the 50-100 million species on Earth.

Even creationists have trouble with this one, so they claim it was only 30,000 species, the rest "developing" from this initial stock, making creationists the greatest proponents of rapid evolution! We know the earth is billions of years old but they are stuck with the Biblical guess of less than 10 thousand years! Besides just take one of the animals like the lion. How did Noah capture a lion? Why did the lion not eat every smaller species on board?

In addition, how do you feed 60,000 animals for 371 days? Still more complicated, how do you keep 60,000 animals from feeding on each other? Worst of all, who was in charge of clean up

I don't try to change anyone's mind about religion but all you have to do is read the bible and you can tell it is man made nonsense! Which is what happened to me. I was a child of God with a drive to be the best Christian I could be but the more I studied the Bible the more it revealed its man made origins.
The Truth

Holland, MI

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#396
Nov 5, 2012
 

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Something that everybody needs to understand is that all of these stories even the story of jesus are nothing but stories. Outside of the bible or the scriptures that it is written from there is no evidence none what so ever of the birth, life, death, or resurection of jesus and to prove such is just a case of futility. All religions are based on faith which by definition is belief in something without evidence therefor to prove something is true negates the need for faith. This is why athiests like myself find it so easy to completely defeat thiests who want to prove their stories are true. By the way athieisum is not a religion. Athieisum is the non belief of any religion therefor can not be a religion and any attempt to make it a religion is again a case of futility.
The Truth

Holland, MI

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#397
Nov 5, 2012
 

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Livingstone1983 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you claim the Lord Jesus Christ is not real, then I challenge you...unless you're too scared...to call upon His name, "Oh, Lord Jesus, I love You! I ask You to save me. Come into my life and my heart so I may be filled with You!" After you do that, your life WILL be changed...unless you're too scared.
I will take on your claim that jesus ever lived by saying what proof is there outside of the bible and the scriptures that it was written from? Show me one piece of archiological evidence other than the existance of bethleheim or jerusilum or the fact that the romans ruled that area of the world around that time. We know those things are true because they are backed up by evidence and do not require faith. The existance of jesus or even moses however rely 100% on faith which by definition is belief in something without evidence. I can claim that jesus and even moses never lived just as easily as you can claim the contrary without evidence. Religion unlike science by definition can not have evidence because there would be no need for faith for these things to be true. Now I call on you to show me something anything other than what I listed above that can back up your claim that jesus ever existed. I will take anything. The straw for example that was claimed to be in the manger in bethelaheim. I would even take a dna sample of jesus and his mother and step father joshep to prove not only his existance but the fact that joshep couldnt possibly be his real father. Just supply us with proof and make your claim of jesus acually being real and you will quite us athiests some.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

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#398
Nov 5, 2012
 

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The sad thing about this thread, is that some will come to the conclusion that theres no God. I agree with the premise that Jesus is just a rehashing of old gods with a different name. I still KNOW that theres an Almighty that HAS ALWAYS EXISTED. ALL THINGS EXIST BECAUSE OF THIS BEING.
The Truth

Holland, MI

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#399
Nov 6, 2012
 
Flygerian wrote:
The sad thing about this thread, is that some will come to the conclusion that theres no God. I agree with the premise that Jesus is just a rehashing of old gods with a different name. I still KNOW that theres an Almighty that HAS ALWAYS EXISTED. ALL THINGS EXIST BECAUSE OF THIS BEING.
Now on the contrary im willing to accept that there may have been a real person named jesus or josiah or whatever the real name in hebrew was around that time. That however does not prove that any of the things he is claimed to do or say are true in any way. Let us also not forget that these things were not even written down until well aftet his death if he even existed in the first place. Now as for the claim that the christian god has always existed. I do not intend to sway anybody on this topic but with this claim your basicly saying that your god exists outside of space and time. If that is true which is not possible to prove then how can your god effect anything in space and time? As you can see this claim is very far fetched at the very least and is completely impossible to prove at all. Logic and reason can only conclude that with the lack of any evidence of any god not just the christian god that all gods are fabrications of man nothing more and do not deserve divinity. The best thing to do is live your life the best you can and whatever happens after
you die will happen no matter what you believe.
Ganonymous

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#400
Nov 6, 2012
 
salman wrote:
EXTRACTS FROM: "The greatest story ever sold" by Acharya S.(Adventures Unlimited 1999) pp 107-123.
That last bit is ALL I needed to read.

Refutations of Acharya S (and the conspiracy-mongering Zeitgeist movie) can be found online by (among others); Elliot Nesch, James Patrick Holding and Mike Licona, if anyone's interested.
Ganonymous

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#401
Nov 6, 2012
 

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And by the way, everyone on this thread needs to calm down. Insults and ridiculous statements will get you nowhere.

“Proverbs 12:16”

Since: Jun 11

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#402
Nov 6, 2012
 

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The easiest way to make the copycat thesis fall apart is to ask the person making the claims to show you primary sources for their information. That is when you find that the parallels either don't exist, are nowhere near as similar as they are originally made out to be or the few that may be spot on may have come into existence after the time of Jesus or are of no major significance. It is for these reasons that the academic community never really pays any attention to the thesis and the only people you do hear talking about it are on the internet or those who are trying to sell books or movies.
James

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#403
Dec 25, 2012
 

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All gods are just fairy stories.........we all stop believing in them eventually........so be patient the gods of today will follow Thor and mars and all the others.......
Mishal

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#404
Dec 27, 2012
 

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Christians are not the people who follows the teaching of Jesus ( peace be upon him) , instead they follow the teachings of Paul / Saul. Thats why all these paganism came into this religion
Mishal

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#405
Dec 27, 2012
 

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There is a good book which tells the story of Jesus . " WHERE DID JESUS DIE " BY J.D Shams
just kevin

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#406
Mar 25, 2013
 
Pray to Zeus wrote:
<quoted text>
How so? They seem like the same story to me, except that Horus and Mythras came thousands of years earlier than your precious Jesus, which is nothing but a copy-cat of earlier religiou beliefs. Why are you so closed minded to facts?
hey zeus please at least do real research before allowing your words to spew forth. Wayne said most of what i was going to say. He has done his research. Most of what we know on this subject comes from documents from 200 to 400 AD. Last i checked that was well after the close of the NT. IF anything their myths were influenced by life of Christ in their later editing. The origanl Myths did not resemble life of Christ by any honest evaluation.
just kevin

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#407
Mar 25, 2013
 
Phil McKrackin wrote:
<quoted text>
RR definitely had the edge in the speed dept, but Bugs was an MIT graduate cum laude! He is definitely smarter than anyone who believes that humanity started less than 5000 years ago in a garden with a talking snake and a rotten fruit.
A few things to consider before cursing me to burn in hell.....
Why is God a he? The purpose of gender is so species of life can reproduce sexually. If God has a gender, then it doesn't make sense that "he" would be a "God", but instead, a man.
In the book of Genesis, it specifically says "...Let us make man in our image..." but I thought there was only 1 God, not multiples. It also says in the book of Genesis that the sons of God mated with the daughters of Man. Why would God(s) mate with humans?
The only link between Jesus' death and the writing of the New Testament are the teachings of Paul the Apostle, aka Saul of Tarsus. The problem with his accounts are that he never refers to Jesus as being an actual living person. He only refers to Jesus in spiritual form. Saul had no knowledge of anything he did during his life, no knowledge of Mary and Joseph, the miracles he supposedly did, the last supper, the treachery of Judas, etc. If Jesus was ever a living being that walked the earth, the no one bothered to tell Saul that.
And how did Noah get the lion on the ark? If he would have came within 10 feet of a lion, he would have been a dead man. And what did the lion eat for 40 days and nights? It surely didn't eat the 1 male and 1 female deer on the boat, or their species would have went extinct!
But the biggest problem religion poses, in my opinion, is that most religious people believe that their savior will come sometime during their lifetime, which also indicates the end of the world. So, if people believe that the world will end in their lifetime, doesn't that diminish any desire to attempt to preserve this world and all life on it for future generations?? It's not just a prophecy, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The world of humans will end alright, but because we are so out of touch with it and treat it like garbage.
I dont have time to respond to all you said but here is a response. First off i guess you missed the writings we of Matthew, Mark, luke, and John aka the Gospels. I am fairly certain that those writings make the connection between Christs death and the New Testament. Since Paul aka Saul knew and conversed with eye witnesses to Jesus' life Paul would have known Jesus was a real person. The "He" that God may be refered to would be the Generic use. Since God can and does at times work in the supernatural the lion not eating Noah could be explained in that sense ie Daniel in the lions den, however since all created animals were vegitarian untill after the flood no supernatural forces were required. In Gods coming kingdom all things will be restored to the original state ie the lion will lay with the lamb. Now about, "in our image" did you miss the part in the Bible where it speaks of Angels? Not to mention that Jesus was also there. Now about your very condescending remark about intelligent people dont believe in God do you honestly believe that? I could just say one name to debunk idiotic statement "Newton". But why stop there Ian Juby, CS Lewis, JRR Tolken i could go on and on but i think you can see the ignorance of your claim. Back to Noah God told Noah to take food and provisions for all the animals and since all wete vegetarians and the ark was the size of 250the box cars and only 16000 animals were on the ark since he only had to take kinds and not species plenty of room. Now you will say lions were meat eaters justt look at their teeth. Right well look at the teeth of the fruit bat or how about the mountain gorilla or how about the panda. Christians don't buy default believe the world will end in our lifetime we dont know the day or the time and we are told to be good stewards of Gods creation.

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