JESUS is not god from bible verses

From post #1189

"Prototokos" means "firstborn; From protos and the alternate of tikto; first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively)-- firstbegotten(-born)." "Arche," on the other hand, possesses the definition you cited. Now, if I start a company, I'm the head honcho unless I say otherwise. That would make me the beginning of the founding of my own company. With that being said, and with Colossians 1:15, comes Revelation 3:14, which calls our anointed Savior "the beginning of the creation of God." Here, "beginning" is "arche." To be the beginning of anything means that the subject is the first of a series. In our anointed Savior's case, he was the beginning while all else followed him.

End copy and paste.

MESSIANIC114 wrote:

"If, indeed, our anointed Savior is the first (and only) created by Father Yahoweh, then it's only natural to conclude that our anointed Savior would be made head of all else created after him."

There is nothing illogocal about this statement. The problem with this statement is:
1. There is no verse to say the Son was created.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

Here, "image" is "eikon" and means "From eiko; a likeness, i.e.(literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance -- image." An image is just that- an image, or representation, but not the actual subject.

Revelation 3:14 These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

MESSIANIC114 wrote:

2. A verse says the Son created ALL things.

1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

It's important that we acknowledge two points made in the above verse. First, the terms "of" and "by." Secondly, a clear, irrefutable distinction is made between Father "God" and our Lord. Apparently, Father is the source of all things, and our anointed Savior is the means in which Father had all things created.

MESSIANIC114 wrote:

"In one aspect, he's the first and the last created by Father Yahoweh."

Again the problem with this statement is just as the previous example.
1. There is no verse to say the Son was created.
2. A verse says the Son created ALL things.
He cannot be the crewtor of ALL if he is excluded from the ALL. That's what ALL means, without exception.
If we are to change meanings of words we can make the bible say anything.

John 14:28 ...my Father is greater than I.

1Corinthians 11:3 ...the head of Christ is God.

1Corinthians 15:27-28 For [Father] hath put all things under [the Son's] feet. But when [Father] saith, all things are put under [the Son], it is manifest that [Father] is [excluded], which did put all things under [the Son]. And when all things shall be subdued unto [the Son], then shall the Son also himself be subject unto [Father] that put all things under [the Son], that God may be all in all.

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on [the Son], believeth not on [the Son], but on [Father] that sent [the Son].

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

We Are Almost There wrote:

Hey my Bro, I finally made it!
No, I never was aware you believed that Jesus was created by God. If you spoke of it, I missed it, as I find that huge. You do realize that very few Bible Scholars agree with you, right? I know you like to go against the grain, and minority rules, LOL. I wasn't aware of the JW's philosophy on this either, as I have no need to get into their beliefs whatsoever.
Yes, I believe He was the beginning, along with God. He was the first-born of God. He was the beginning of the creation in the sense that He caused the universe to begin to exist, that He was the author of all things. The only thing we don't agree on is that He was created by God. John 1: makes this quite clear. Since He created all things, He would have had to have been created before anything was created. I don't believe that happened, but that Christ was the beginning of all things that were created.
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Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:
.... beginning of the creation of God-not he whom God created first, but as in Col 1:15-18 (see on [2684]Col 1:15-18), the Beginner of all creation, its originating instrument. All creation would not be represented adoring Him, if He were but one of themselves. His being the Creator is a strong guarantee for His faithfulness as "the Witness and Amen."
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I like that. It's a rather fine line on interpretation, but I'll NEVER get past John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. For me, there is no more need be added or taken away through the support of the rest of that chapter, making clear that Christ is the Word.

And again, the language in John 1:1 alone proves a doctrine that differs from today's common interpretation. In it, it declares that our anointed Savior was "with" Father "God," and the he "was (past-tense)" "God." The term "was" indicates a position held, most likely defined by the actions affiliated with the position. He is, indeed, creator of us all, and therefore, "was" "God."

And if you'll take notice, this "Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary" changes the phrase to say our anointed Savior is the "'beginner' of all creation" instead of what it actually says. But, none can ignore 1Corinthians 8:6 which testifies, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." A clear, irrefutable distinction is made between Father and our anointed Savior, especially by the terms "of" and "by." Apparently, Father is the source of all things, while our anointed Savior is the means by which all things were created.

We Are Almost There wrote:

I don't think God really cares what we believe on the matter except for one point. We must be born again by water and the Spirit. That means only those that are born again will be saved. And those that have been born again have been given the comforter and guide, and the meaning of His Word should be revealed to us.
John 14:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
1 Cor. 3:
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor.6:
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
May we walk in the light of His Truth; WAAT

I call such things "spiritual dispensation and distribution." If I were to set a trap out in the woods illegally, and an animal becomes trapped by it, the authorities wouldn't just discard of the trap and call it a day. They'd begin a search for me, the source of the trap. Satan, too, causes no one to sin, but he's still the father of it.

I don't really have a horse is the "Is Jesus god?" race. But the fact there is such a debate proves there is no all powerful, all knowing god who wants us all to know about him. If there were, there would be no such debate. You wouldn't have to argue about what Corinthians this or that *really* means. God would just be clear about such an important issue.

Rose_NoHo wrote:

I don't really have a horse is the "Is Jesus god?" race. But the fact there is such a debate proves there is no all powerful, all knowing god who wants us all to know about him. If there were, there would be no such debate. You wouldn't have to argue about what Corinthians this or that *really* means. God would just be clear about such an important issue.

Hi Rose,

Do you want to know why the Word of God is not just a matter of words but has real power. Here's why?

Because Jesus told us that if we pray and ask for anything that is based on the will of our heavenly Father, then we shall recieve it from the Father, which I believe with all my heart to be true.

So I will be praying and asking Him that you (Rose) continue listening to Chrisitan forums to hear the gospel so that you may learn more about Him, which I'm 100% sure has already been answered and will continue to be answered by Him.

So if you decide to respond on this forum or any other Christian forum after this, you are only giving proof to all of us that God really does answer prayers or you wouldn't be on here in the first place interested in reading and responding to Christian forums.

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servant wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi Rose,
Do you want to know why the Word of God is not just a matter of words but has real power. Here's why?
Because Jesus told us that if we pray and ask for anything that is based on the will of our heavenly Father, then we shall recieve it from the Father, which I believe with all my heart to be true.

Pray to have him move Mt. Everest to ND tonight.

servant wrote:

So I will be praying and asking Him that you (Rose) continue listening to Chrisitan forums to hear the gospel so that you may learn more about Him, which I'm 100% sure has already been answered and will continue to be answered by Him.
So if you decide to respond on this forum or any other Christian forum after this, you are only giving proof to all of us that God really does answer prayers or you wouldn't be on here in the first place interested in reading and responding to Christian forums.
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No, I'm not.
But if Mt. Everest isn't in ND tomorrow morning, we'll know your god doesn't exist.

Rose_NoHo wrote:

<quoted text>
Pray to have him move Mt. Everest to ND tonight.
<quoted text>
No, I'm not.
But if Mt. Everest isn't in ND tomorrow morning, we'll know your god doesn't exist.

depends on who's praying for it to happen

Jesus did say:

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John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do ; because I go unto my Father

If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

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So i'm sure with faith the size of a mustard seed and as long as its in the will of the Father to happen .... I believe you could.

By the way you're still on here. You are interested in knowing the gospel,aren't you. Praise God!

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servant wrote:

<quoted text>
depends on who's praying for it to happen
Jesus did say:
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John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do ; because I go unto my Father
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
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So i'm sure with faith the size of a mustard seed and as long as its in the will of the Father to happen .... I believe you could.
By the way you're still on here. You are interested in knowing the gospel,aren't you. Praise God!
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What a cop out.
I could say the same thing about praying to Elvis.

Rose_NoHo wrote:

<quoted text>
What a cop out.
I could say the same thing about praying to Elvis.

So has Elvis answered yet because the God of the Bible is still answering my prayers concerning you from post # 1193

God is good!

servant wrote:

<quoted text>
post # 1193
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Hi Rose,

Do you want to know why the Word of God is not just a matter of words but has real power. Here's why?

Because Jesus told us that if we pray and ask for anything that is based on the will of our heavenly Father, then we shall recieve it from the Father, which I believe with all my heart to be true.

So I will be praying and asking Him that you (Rose) continue listening to Chrisitan forums to hear the gospel so that you may learn more about Him, which I'm 100% sure has already been answered and will continue to be answered by Him.

So if you decide to respond on this forum or any other Christian forum after this, you are only giving proof to all of us that God really does answer prayers or you wouldn't be on here in the first place interested in reading and responding to Christian forums.

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LUKE 17:6 Jesus replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree,'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you.

Well it was nice talking to you about the gospel Rose. I love to see people today want to learn about what God has to offer us. I hope to see on here more ofter which I'm sure you'll be, if not on this post, I'm sure to see you on others.

Have a good night.:)

Brother Lee Love wrote:

<quoted text>And again, the language in John 1:1 alone proves a doctrine that differs from today's common interpretation. In it, it declares that our anointed Savior was "with" Father "God," and the he "was (past-tense)" "God." The term "was" indicates a position held, most likely defined by the actions affiliated with the position. He is, indeed, creator of us all, and therefore, "was" "God."
And if you'll take notice, this "Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary" changes the phrase to say our anointed Savior is the "'beginner' of all creation" instead of what it actually says. But, none can ignore 1Corinthians 8:6 which testifies, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." A clear, irrefutable distinction is made between Father and our anointed Savior, especially by the terms "of" and "by." Apparently, Father is the source of all things, while our anointed Savior is the means by which all things were created.
<quoted text>I call such things "spiritual dispensation and distribution." If I were to set a trap out in the woods illegally, and an animal becomes trapped by it, the authorities wouldn't just discard of the trap and call it a day. They'd begin a search for me, the source of the trap. Satan, too, causes no one to sin, but he's still the father of it.

I mentioned this earlier somewhere, and then Jay mentioned it again on your other thread yesterday. Exactly why is this detrimental to our Salvation or unity in Christ. I mean, for those of us that do believe in Father God, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit, should it divide us in how we perceive them as one or 3? Even those of us that believe 1, they still become 3. Otherwise it would be impossible to support when Jesus was on Earth or sitting at the right hand of the Father. Up until recently it seemed to mean we worshiped different Gods, but in the long run, God is going to win out as He will be what He will be and we will be with Him. What say you, is this important now or later?

I would prefer to find things we can agree to disagree without it being an issue. With all the denominations and their vast beliefs, unity gone haywire and the body of Christ has many amputated limbs. There are some things that I do definitely find it impossible to be in unity with beliefs I find in total opposition of God's Word. And it's a very large group.

I still cannot come to terms with Christ being created, but then again, I'm not sure how that effects anything either. He doesn't tell us everything. Some of what we know is quite subject to speculation and choice as we know. I've always felt that God only wanted us to know a certain amount of information, and that may not be given to us equally.

It would be nice to have more common ground with one that has Christ as their Savior. Sure beats an agnostic that never knew God in any way, doesn't believe the Bible is the truth, and doesn't believe in Jesus as the Son of God, yet believes he knows who could possibly possess the Holy Spirit and be saved and thinks he knows more about God's Word than those that believe in it and Him. I think it much more profitable to debate with someone whose goal isn't simply to discredit His Word, and our beliefs. Thank you for letting me vent on that. I knew better than to attempt to address the poster I refer to, as it would likely tarnish my halo, LOLOL!

Building to bridge the gap; WAAT

servant wrote:

I'm sorry guys. I thought this was a forum where after someone makes a comment to us or someone else, we can openly share our own views without being ignored,insulted and considered weeds. But i'm okay with that. The stones will still cry out.
Shalom

It is but it's Topix. And this Christian Forum is about 20% those that follow Christ, or less. Which is weird but OK if they want to hang out here for years. Unfortunately, many of them that do have an agenda to debunk God's Word, ask questions that cannot be answered through the Bible, or discredit us that preach and teach. There's even many skeptic and Agnostic websites where they list questions to ask us we can't answer or try to point out mistakes and contradictions in scripture. It is quite deceptive in nature, and it gets quite old, as it is not legitimate debate or dialogue at all. That's what I've been dealing with.

When I first saw your post it did make a good first impression. One reason is that you do something I've only seen Joyce Meyers do, and I find it quite unacceptable. When quoting scripture, I find opinions, even in parenthesis, very wrong, as you are changing scripture right off the bat. Scripture must speak for itself. We may later give our opinion and beliefs on matters, but we should never imply that our opinion can be stated as God's opinion, as each of ours would vary. That is why so many "Christians" are hopelessly indoctrinated, as they've been told what to think about what the Bible says. I have yet to see positive things come from indoctrination. It needs to only come through the Spirit and The Word, no middle man to re-translate it.

As far as my statement about "weeds" that comment was made after another poster somehow totally misread my beliefs. And yes, if you had been on some of the forums I have, the seed that was scattered will be lucky to pop it's sprout out, as the weeds are quite noxious.

I'm honest and wanted you to know why I reacted the way I did. I can't speak for anyone else, but there's only a few of us even posting on this thread.

In His Service; WAAT

We Are Almost There wrote:

<quoted text>
When I first saw your post it did make a good first impression. One reason is that you do something I've only seen Joyce Meyers do, and I find it quite unacceptable. When quoting scripture, I find opinions, even in parenthesis, very wrong, as you are changing scripture right off the bat. Scripture must speak for itself. We may later give our opinion and beliefs on matters, but we should never imply that our opinion can be stated as God's opinion, as each of ours would vary. That is why so many "Christians" are hopelessly indoctrinated, as they've been told what to think about what the Bible says. I have yet to see positive things come from indoctrination. It needs to only come through the Spirit and The Word, no middle man to re-translate it.

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Hi we are almost here. I totally agree with you that we must test all spirits to see whether they are from God or not. You are right in doing so. That's what the Bible tells us we should do. What I find interesting though is you state that I changed the scriptures. The only thing I did was write the word 'believers' in parenthesis next to the word 'they' to show the reader who Jesus was speaking about.

What I find worse though is when people today put and use their own defintions, ideas, and interpretations as to what a word meant 2,000 years ago such as the word 'Godhead' without it being TRANSLATED ACCORDING TO THE IMMEDIATE SURROUNDING TEXT or recorded elsewhere in the Bible concerning the word and especially if there is no immediate definition surrounding the word. Which is why I used scripture to show people it wasn't my own interpretation. I also am a firm believer that only the Bible can interpret the Bible as you stated. Which you'll notice I did if you go back to my post concerning the word 'Godhead'. All I can do is just hope you go back and fully read and test the post that I wrote. Thank you for your time.

Shalom

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EXTRA:

2 TIMOTHY 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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We Are Almost There wrote:

<quoted text>

And as for your interest in the first born of creation (light) that God the Father created

I refer you to my post #1155 & # 1156

post #1155

servant wrote:

<quoted text>
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JAMES 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father (God) of lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
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GENESIS 1:3-4 And God (the Father) said,“Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

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JOHN 1:4-10 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light (Jesus), that all might believe through him. He was not the light (Jesus), but came to bear witness about the light (Jesus). The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He(Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made THROUGH HIM, yet the world did not know him.
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JOHN 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
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EPHESIANS 3:9 to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by (through) Jesus Christ:
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John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word (light), and the Word (Jesus) was with God (the Father), and the Word (Jesus) was God (the Son). He was in the beginning with God (the Father). All things were made THROUGH HIM (the light)(from the Father), and without Him nothing was made that was made.
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1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but ONE GOD, the Father, FROM whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom all things came and through whom we live.
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READ--------ACTS 2:33-36
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HEBREWS 1:9 But about the Son he (the Father) says, You (Jesus) have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God (the Father), your God (John 20:17), has set you (Jesus) above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy (Holy Spirit). The Father also says (to the Son), "In the beginning, O Lord (Jesus), you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands."
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EXTRA!
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(EPHESIANS 1:16-23)----(1 Corinthians 15:27-28)
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post # 1156 continuation from post #1155

servant wrote:

<quoted text>
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JAMES 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
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LUKE 16:8 Put your trust in the light while you have it, so that you may become sons of light." When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.
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JOHN 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
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JOHN 1:12 But to all who did receive him (the light), who believed in his name (Jesus), he gave the right to become children of God (the Father), who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God (the Father).
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Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
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Hi! Sorry I haven't been back here but to read. I went on a flying carpet ride and my back and hip remained with the step and the marble floor. Still recovering, and rounds are slow. I do know that scripture will keep quite nicely. I thought Bro Love might return now and post in my stead, but he likely had a full work schedule.

Just wanted you to know I hadn't weeded you out! LMBO

I will return later when I can. Peace Out; WAAT

We Are Almost There wrote:

I mentioned this earlier somewhere, and then Jay mentioned it again on your other thread yesterday. Exactly why is this detrimental to our Salvation or unity in Christ. I mean, for those of us that do believe in Father God, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit, should it divide us in how we perceive them as one or 3? Even those of us that believe 1, they still become 3. Otherwise it would be impossible to support when Jesus was on Earth or sitting at the right hand of the Father. Up until recently it seemed to mean we worshiped different Gods, but in the long run, God is going to win out as He will be what He will be and we will be with Him. What say you, is this important now or later?
I would prefer to find things we can agree to disagree without it being an issue. With all the denominations and their vast beliefs, unity gone haywire and the body of Christ has many amputated limbs. There are some things that I do definitely find it impossible to be in unity with beliefs I find in total opposition of God's Word. And it's a very large group.
I still cannot come to terms with Christ being created, but then again, I'm not sure how that effects anything either. He doesn't tell us everything. Some of what we know is quite subject to speculation and choice as we know. I've always felt that God only wanted us to know a certain amount of information, and that may not be given to us equally.
It would be nice to have more common ground with one that has Christ as their Savior. Sure beats an agnostic that never knew God in any way, doesn't believe the Bible is the truth, and doesn't believe in Jesus as the Son of God, yet believes he knows who could possibly possess the Holy Spirit and be saved and thinks he knows more about God's Word than those that believe in it and Him. I think it much more profitable to debate with someone whose goal isn't simply to discredit His Word, and our beliefs. Thank you for letting me vent on that. I knew better than to attempt to address the poster I refer to, as it would likely tarnish my halo, LOLOL!
Building to bridge the gap; WAAT

Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, O Sister of mine.

You're right. I've been working. And as we all should know by now, I rarely post when I'm working. I just did 40 hours in 3 days. I'm going to try to catch up, but that's if I can juggle Topix and family at the same time. Anyway...

I believe that believing in a so-called "trintiy" is detrimental, perhaps more than I seeJesus does (even though I don't act like him). I believe that the difference is whether we accept the same doctrines of every pagan society that's existed since Babel, or we understand that none comes before or beside Father. John's literature is beyond understandable, but people choose to ignore what John writes because, for the most part, they don't coincide with what they've been taught. And again, it's like I said. There's much that goes into admitting to being deceived and indoctrinated. To accept this doctrine means, after all, we're too intelligent to be deceived, while on the other hand...to consider the alternative means we'll, at one time or another, have to put our own level of intelligence under a microscope and wonder "How?"

Again, I was 14 when I began my studies. I believe there's a reason for that, even though I don't chalk it up as anything miraculous and from the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit caused me to question religious authority at such a young age, then so, be it. But, I'll not waver simply because the majority opposes me. They did when I was 14, too.

I love you, Sister. And I'm glad to know you. I'm also glad that you allow me to vent, too. Until next time...I'm diving in. One more "New replies (1)" to go.

Brother Lee Love wrote:

<quoted text>Greetings, salutations, and shalowm, O Sister of mine.

I believe that believing in a so-called "trintiy" is detrimental, perhaps more than I seeJesus does (even though I don't act like him). I believe that the difference is whether we accept the same doctrines of every pagan society that's existed since Babel, or we understand that none comes before or beside Father. John's literature is beyond understandable, but people choose to ignore what John writes because, for the most part, they don't coincide with what they've been taught. And again, it's like I said. There's much that goes into admitting to being deceived and indoctrinated. To accept this doctrine means, after all, we're too intelligent to be deceived, while on the other hand...to consider the alternative means we'll, at one time or another, have to put our own level of intelligence under a microscope and wonder "How?"
Again, I was 14 when I began my studies. I believe there's a reason for that, even though I don't chalk it up as anything miraculous and from the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit caused me to question religious authority at such a young age, then so, be it. But, I'll not waver simply because the majority opposes me. They did when I was 14, too.
I love you, Sister. And I'm glad to know you. I'm also glad that you allow me to vent, too. Until next time...I'm diving in. One more "New replies (1)" to go.

Hello dear Bro Love!

Then what you need to do is what I did for you and state your beliefs and then point out why you believe as you do from scripture. Most everyone is confused with your terminology.

I have been very careful not to state you don't believe in the Holy Spirit, as I once state last year. Ooops. You should also explain the thing about being a god, cuz I've never really understood that either, although I know there is something in the OT where you have determined that.

But you don't believe in the Trinity. See, this is why there is so much confusion. I do believe it important if we believe that, we must believe that Christ is uncreated along with the Father, or the Trinity could not be.

There should be no particular age when we are born-again and filled with the Spirit. It could be youth, although I'm guessing it would serve more of a purpose in an adults life, particularly after he has experience much of it, and even more so, when he may be at the lowest place of his life, where he finally can shed the pride and realize that he is nothing without a Savior. But hey, that's just my opinion, and I don't presume what is best for God to do.

I certainly agree with you about indoctrination. It is atrocious, and even more so amongst the radical sects that branch off with more and more unChristlike Doctrine and Dogma.

It appears after some conversations here and with professionals that I most likely do have Lupus. That explains the hell I've lived in for so long. I have displayed nearly every symptom off and on for the last decade, and particularly the last 6 months. So I guess nearly breaking my back was to lead me the source of my problem. I still have to get a special blood test, which I can't afford now. If it is positive, I mostly likely would be put on Disability, which I actually qualify for due to my severe scoliosis.

Yes, of course you're allowed to vent and express your beliefs. I will not call you names or degrade you. I do hope I have stated your beliefs correctly on the other forum, because all this confusion gets away from the purpose of the debate. Don't know if it is intentional or not, but you are very vague to others about what you stand for. That's another reason I dislike Murray. I prefer to just put it all out there, and then go from there. Nothing hidden, as confusion is not of God.

Had to cut a bit or your post. Curious to know of your job. Love you too my Friend; WAAT

We Are Almost There wrote:

Hello dear Bro Love!
Then what you need to do is what I did for you and state your beliefs and then point out why you believe as you do from scripture. Most everyone is confused with your terminology.

I have willingly revealed my beliefs when asked. Normally, though, I try to stay on topic, whatever that might be. If it's one thing I've always done and will continue to do is show why I believe as I do, according to scripture. And even then, the quotes are ignored (to a degree).

We Are Almost There wrote:

I have been very careful not to state you don't believe in the Holy Spirit, as I once state last year. Ooops. You should also explain the thing about being a god, cuz I've never really understood that either, although I know there is something in the OT where you have determined that.

It's all about terminology and definition. That's all it is. We get so caught up on capital "G's" and lower-case "g's" that it's ridiculous. I do believe that we can become gods, but these "gods" have nothing to do with mythology, or becoming any sort of deity exalted above men. In this case, "god" is no different a title than "Bishop," or "deacon."

We Are Almost There wrote:

But you don't believe in the Trinity. See, this is why there is so much confusion. I do believe it important if we believe that, we must believe that Christ is uncreated along with the Father, or the Trinity could not be.

"Trinities" have been worshiped since Babel. And even at the council of Nicea, the majority believed such a doctrine to be heresy.

We Are Almost There wrote:

There should be no particular age when we are born-again and filled with the Spirit. It could be youth, although I'm guessing it would serve more of a purpose in an adults life, particularly after he has experience much of it, and even more so, when he may be at the lowest place of his life, where he finally can shed the pride and realize that he is nothing without a Savior. But hey, that's just my opinion, and I don't presume what is best for God to do.

I would think that such a selection would be bestowed upon one that can discern between righteousness and unrighteousness, but hey.

We Are Almost There wrote:

I certainly agree with you about indoctrination. It is atrocious, and even more so amongst the radical sects that branch off with more and more unChristlike Doctrine and Dogma.

The RCC felt the same way about the Reformers.

We Are Almost There wrote:

It appears after some conversations here and with professionals that I most likely do have Lupus. That explains the hell I've lived in for so long. I have displayed nearly every symptom off and on for the last decade, and particularly the last 6 months. So I guess nearly breaking my back was to lead me the source of my problem. I still have to get a special blood test, which I can't afford now. If it is positive, I mostly likely would be put on Disability, which I actually qualify for due to my severe scoliosis.

I'm sorry to hear about your recent, most unfortunate event. I pray that our 'Elohiym keeps you and help you to retain your strength and gracious disposition.

We Are Almost There wrote:

Yes, of course you're allowed to vent and express your beliefs. I will not call you names or degrade you. I do hope I have stated your beliefs correctly on the other forum, because all this confusion gets away from the purpose of the debate. Don't know if it is intentional or not, but you are very vague to others about what you stand for.

Vague? I beg to differ. Again, I've openly discussed my beliefs either, when asked, or by discussing scripture. I think I'm very clear when I discuss my beliefs regarding scripture. I've never hid anything about myself.

I had to be short and sweet in this post, because I wasn't left much room. Anything you want to know, though, just ask. I'm an open book.