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Since: Jul 11
Santa Monica, CA
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The last thing you want to do is taunt a rattlesnake or grizzly bear. They won't care why you are doing it, but they WILL retaliate.
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Dan
Milwaukee, WI
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nhjeff wrote: <quoted text>
So why is it okay for church groups to come protest our community centers and pride parades, but it's not okay for us to protest the heart of their evil operations?
All change advocates need to keep in mind the trade-off between pissing people off and being ignored. Occupy certainly pissed people off. But we're having a conversation that we couldn't get started through other means. It's not like they came up with their ideas all on their own. Go ahead and piss them off. Just don't come back here whining if it hits the ballot and they remember your disruption of their worship and vote against you.
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“Headed toward the cliff”
Since: Nov 07
Tawas City, Michigan
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nhjeff wrote: <quoted text>
So why is it okay for church groups to come protest our community centers and pride parades, but it's not okay for us to protest the heart of their evil operations?
All change advocates need to keep in mind the trade-off between pissing people off and being ignored. Occupy certainly pissed people off. But we're having a conversation that we couldn't get started through other means. It's not like they came up with their ideas all on their own. It's NOT okay for them to protest our community centers or pride parades, but unfortunatly it is their right. Just because we have the right to protest them doesn't mean we always have to exercise that right. I just think there are more effective ways of getting our message out than risking an ugly incident with church-goers immediately going viral on you-tube. Especially in states like Maine & Minnesota where the catholic church is the main opposition group. North Carolina- sure, protest every Baptist & evangelical church you can find; no harm no foul.
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“Together for 24, legal for 5”
Since: Sep 07
Littleton, NH
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Dan wrote: <quoted text>
Go ahead and piss them off.
Just don't come back here whining if it hits the ballot and they remember your disruption of their worship and vote against you. Keep in mind that they're already spinning the story of marauding homosexuals burning their houses and destroying their businesses. It's not like they'll give us any brownie points for behaving.
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paul shykora arts
Calgary, Canada
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..well...I's PRO-Women...Lover,here...eh... yada u u (+)
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Dan
Milwaukee, WI
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nhjeff wrote: <quoted text>
Keep in mind that they're already spinning the story of marauding homosexuals burning their houses and destroying their businesses. It's not like they'll give us any brownie points for behaving. I perhaps was too hard with my tone. All I meant was this- In a ballot measure, you don't gin up votes by calling the opposition (whose votes you need) evil, or bigots, or by disrupting their houses of worship. There has been a good bit of nasty done to businesses by having their names run out on donor lists. Again, that's the demonizing the opposition thing that isn't ever productive. You need them more than they need you.
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“Headed toward the cliff”
Since: Nov 07
Tawas City, Michigan
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nhjeff wrote: <quoted text>
Keep in mind that they're already spinning the story of marauding homosexuals burning their houses and destroying their businesses. It's not like they'll give us any brownie points for behaving. And there's no reason to give them free video of those marauding homosexuals.......
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“Together for 24, legal for 5”
Since: Sep 07
Littleton, NH
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WeTheSheeple wrote: <quoted text>
And there's no reason to give them free video of those marauding homosexuals....... Nor have I every recommended marauding or even direct confrontation. But I do support visible opposition to the message of their leaders. We need to point out that their priest's viewpoint is not the only one, and that he's talking about real people. Not just demons. As I've said, there's a trade-off that is difficult to navigate.
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“The Stand-off in ...”
Since: Mar 09
St. Peter's Square
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Its Tim wrote: <quoted text>Just as soon as Bible Thumpers stop picketing abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood. I will support anything that galvanizes our opposition, nor negatively influences the sleeping moderates and undecideds. This is us shooting ourselves in the foot .... again. We are still having to deal with the negative fallout from the old ActUp mistakes. Picketing cannot influence an essentially dogmatic and autocratic hierarchy like the RCC. It certainly can influence all the voters who have absolutely NO say in church positions. Picket them on pedophile priests. That works. Not on our issue. That doesn't. "In-your-face tactics only impress those that already agree with you." - MLK
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achyfi
Arlington, MA
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snyper wrote: <quoted text>
I will support anything that galvanizes our opposition, nor negatively influences the sleeping moderates and undecideds.
This is us shooting ourselves in the foot .... again.
We are still having to deal with the negative fallout from the old ActUp mistakes.
Picketing cannot influence an essentially dogmatic and autocratic hierarchy like the RCC. It certainly can influence all the voters who have absolutely NO say in church positions.
Picket them on pedophile priests. That works. Not on our issue. That doesn't.
"In-your-face tactics only impress those that already agree with you." - MLK You're making sense. Hence you will be ignored by the irrational. The goal of the people who support picketing is not to advance gay rights, but to ATTRACT ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES!
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“The Stand-off in ...”
Since: Mar 09
St. Peter's Square
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achyfi wrote: <quoted text>
You're making sense. Hence you will be ignored by the irrational. The goal of the people who support picketing is not to advance gay rights, but to ATTRACT ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES! Usually, they are politically inexperienced and have been ill-advised.
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“Together for 24, legal for 5”
Since: Sep 07
Littleton, NH
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mjy325 wrote: you know i read my bible and its says judge not less yea be judged with easurement u judge by i dont judge no one there few nuts cases out there who claim do it for god but i think you calling everyone bible thumper casue reads bible bible thumpers everyone entitled live as they chose so if u chose call me thumpers i chose to thump u in jaw i think no church or government tell whom loves whom ok so lick on that what ever u are<quoted text> I think you directed that to the wrong poster. Snyper doesn't play those politics. Now, if someone is actually thumping on their Bible, he might point that out to them directly. But that particular post had nothing to do with thumpers.
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“Together for 24, legal for 5”
Since: Sep 07
Littleton, NH
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mjy325 wrote: it was for this idiot Its Tim wrote:
<quoted text>Just as soon as Bible Thumpers stop picketing abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood.
<quoted text> Well, he's got a perfectly valid point. If churches send their members to protest secular institutions, they're fair game for protests, too. The Roman Catholic Church is a primary contributor of money, volunteers, and protesters in anti-equality events around the country. You are correct that not every member of the church agrees or attends. But the churches themselves are where the anti-gay anti-women outreaches begin.
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“The Stand-off in ...”
Since: Mar 09
St. Peter's Square
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mjy325 wrote: you know i read my bible and its says judge not less yea be judged with easurement u judge by i dont judge no one there few nuts cases out there who claim do it for god but i think you calling everyone bible thumper casue reads bible bible thumpers everyone entitled live as they chose so if u chose call me thumpers i chose to thump u in jaw i think no church or government tell whom loves whom ok so lick on that what ever u are<quoted text> I once had a boyfriend nicknamed "thumper". Apart from that I don't use the term. I am opposed to Biblicism, Inerrency and Sola Scriptura. They are self-refuting tautologies and heresy.
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“Bring Back the Bush!”
Since: Jul 10
Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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nhjeff wrote: Protests in front of churches should be particularly respectful of the services inside and the worshipers coming and going. But whereas the church uses the power of its image to influence political debates, it is only right and proper that protesters challenge that.
We're still paying the price for shenanigans by Act Up in the eighties. Nevertheless, you sometimes have to get people angry to get a discussion going. Are protests by church members respectful of women entering an abortion clinic or Plannec Parenthood? I only give the respect that is given in turn.
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Dan
Burlington, WI
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Judged:
1
1
Its Tim wrote: <quoted text>Are protests by church members respectful of women entering an abortion clinic or Plannec Parenthood? I only give the respect that is given in turn. If you're mad at Cardinal George, picket the Chancery. That's his office. If you need rank and file Catholics to vote for your cause (and you need every vote you can get), don't show up at Mass and disrupt their worship. Abortion isn't up for a vote. Looks like this SSM bill will be. Don't deliberately antagonize people whose votes you NEED. Not sure why this is escaping you here.
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“The Stand-off in ...”
Since: Mar 09
St. Peter's Square
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Judged:
1
Dan wrote: <quoted text>
If you're mad at Cardinal George, picket the Chancery. That's his office.
If you need rank and file Catholics to vote for your cause (and you need every vote you can get), don't show up at Mass and disrupt their worship.
Abortion isn't up for a vote. Looks like this SSM bill will be.
Don't deliberately antagonize people whose votes you NEED.
Not sure why this is escaping you here. I agree absolutely and without reservation.
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“Together for 24, legal for 5”
Since: Sep 07
Littleton, NH
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Its Tim wrote: <quoted text>Are protests by church members respectful of women entering an abortion clinic or Plannec Parenthood? I only give the respect that is given in turn. Actually, we're better than them.
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“Bring Back the Bush!”
Since: Jul 10
Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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snyper wrote: <quoted text>
I will support anything that galvanizes our opposition, nor negatively influences the sleeping moderates and undecideds.
This is us shooting ourselves in the foot .... again.
We are still having to deal with the negative fallout from the old ActUp mistakes.
Picketing cannot influence an essentially dogmatic and autocratic hierarchy like the RCC. It certainly can influence all the voters who have absolutely NO say in church positions.
Picket them on pedophile priests. That works. Not on our issue. That doesn't.
"In-your-face tactics only impress those that already agree with you." - MLK Agreed. I don't condone or endorse such acts. My goal was only to point out the hypocrisy to those who suggest protesting churches/services is wrong, whiw those patronizing those churches commit the same act. My amusement comes from the fact that, in my town there exists a church and a Planned Parenthood across the street from one another. I've seen protestors only at Planned Parenthood.
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“Bring Back the Bush!”
Since: Jul 10
Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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achyfi wrote: <quoted text>
You're making sense. Hence you will be ignored by the irrational. The goal of the people who support picketing is not to advance gay rights, but to ATTRACT ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES! There is attention that will further a cause, and attention that will deter a cause. Those who wish to focus attention and gain public support must consider this closely to be effective.
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Aquarius
