Is Reincarnation real??

No, not according to the Bible.

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." (Hebrews 9:27, Holy Bible)

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Buddhist "rebirth" or "re-becoming" differs from the popular notion of "reincarnation". Reincarnation states that it is the soul (atman) which survives after death and is destined to be reborn again and again through a cycle of many lifetimes. However, the principle of rebirth states that the consciousness carries kammic influence (kammavega) from rebirth to rebirth - for it is a part of Samsara.

According to the Bhava Sutta (AN III.76), Buddha tells Ananda that "kamma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture for beings obstructed by ignorance and fettered by craving to be established in a new realm of existence, either low (sense-sphere), middling (form-sphere), or high (formless-sphere). Thus, there is re-becoming in the future."

oreodelights wrote:

No, not according to the Bible.
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." (Hebrews 9:27, Holy Bible)
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Ha-ha! Leave it to Beaver is back.

So a guy named Paul, and almost every other bible author who never knew Jesus, nor ever met him, and had never lived with Jesus,(If Jesus ever existed), wrote most of the bible, and none had ever seen the miracles reported to have been done by Jesus. So they believed personal ideas.

Paul didn't become a Christian until 33–36 years after Jesus had reportedly died and not been hidden by followers, and on the road to Damascus. Jesus tomb has been discovered in Jerusalem.

Before Paul's conversion, he was known as Saul, and a "zealous" Pharisee who "intensely persecuted" the followers of Jesus. Some scholars believe that Paul was a member of the "Zealot" party. Says Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians (1:13-14)

So Paul had a guilty conscience, and being human he felt better by making amends and becoming a Christian. hee.

And what about the Mormon founder Joseph Smith and the angel, and also with Independence Missouri being the garden of Eden? Is that also true because he said so?

In the stories of the bible written by people that never met Jesus, Jesus talked about reincarnation with Nicodemus. And Jesus said. Nicodemus could be reincarnated but there would be no profit.

You ignore the truth, science, and reality of evolution.

Here, go see and enjoy more miracles done by Benny Hinn than Jesus himself did. Cripples walk, blind see, deaf hear. AIDS is cured.
You don't even need to see Jesus. Your kind of fantasy. Benny Hinn. http://www.bennyhinn.org/ or just read about his history at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hinn

oreodelights wrote:

No, not according to the Bible.

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." (Hebrews 9:27, Holy Bible)

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Actually, the Bible has Adam and Eve reincarnating-- they fell from heaven, and got human bodies full of lust due to sin.

One of the most fascinating cases of reincarnation. The story is that of a young boy who said he was a WWII pilot. A must read.

http://www.reversespins.com/proofofreincarnat...

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Technology/st...

There is no evidence of reincarnation for all of us there are some amazing stories like the one above.

At least re-incarnation is more plausible than the fairy tales in the bible including the MYTHICAL Jesus!

Neal wrote:

There is no evidence of reincarnation for all of us there are some amazing stories like the one above.
At least re-incarnation is more plausible than the fairy tales in the bible including the MYTHICAL Jesus!

Hi Neal, here's interesting one. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42191453/ns/tod...
boy who says he visited heaven and saw Jesus
And this is interesting real picture of Jesus. http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our... This Likeness of Jesus was copied from a portrait carved on an emerald by order of Tiberius Caesar, which emerald the Emperor of the Turks afterwards gave out of the Treasury of Constantinople to Pope Innocent VIII for the redemption of his brother, taken captive by the Christians.

The problem with the Christian bible as a history book is that Paul who makes up most of the new testament was a pharisee educated under a Jewish man named Gamaliel in Rabbinical school in Jerusalem years after the death of Jesus, so there is serious question if there were a conspiracy of Jewish pharisees trying to infiltrate Christianity, which they may have done through Paul,and also the bible is strange book because no one knows who wrote the book of Hebrews or the book of John.
Paul was born 2 A.D. in the city of Tarsus to an Israelite family of the tribe of Benjamin (Philippians 3:5). He is circumcised on the eighth day, in compliance with the law of Hebrews (Genesis 17:12, Leviticus 12:3, Philippians 3:5). Paul has at least one sister (Acts 23:16).
His birth place city was Tarsus in Turkey the capital of the Asia Minor province of Cilicia. Because the Roman empire designated Tarsus in Turkey a "free city," Saul was considered a free man and a Roman citizen (See Acts 22:25-29).
Saul goes to Jerusalem to attend a Pharisaic Rabbinical school. This school is headed up by Gamaliel (Acts 5:34), who Jews consider to be one of the greatest teachers ever of Judaism.
Saul is personally taught by Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) and eventually becomes a Pharisee (Acts 23:6-8, 26:4-5; Philippians 3:5)

As example Thomas Jefferson did not believe that Jesus was divine, he did not believe that Jesus had ever claimed to be the son of God. He viewed Jesus as an ethical philosopher and compared him to Socrates and Epictetus as men who were great thinkers but who, because they wrote nothing themselves, had their views distorted by their students and followers. He lamented the fact that the task of writing about his life and ideas fell to "unlettered and ignorant men", referring to the gospel writers and especially to Paul, whom he loathed greatly. Jefferson greatly admired the ethical system of Jesus, but completely rejected any claims of his divinity, claims of him having performed miracles, the virgin birth, the resurrection, and all other supernatural claims about him. All of those he considered "corruptions" of Christianity.

Jefferson said this. "The pure and simple unity of the Creator of the universe, is now all bascendantatn in the Eastern States; it is dawning in the West, and advancing towards the South; and I confidently expect that the present generation will see Unitarianism become the general religion of the United States. " Contrary to the implication here, Jefferson was not talking about America rallying around Christianity, but around a rejection of one of the major tenets of Christianity.

marlin wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi Neal, here's interesting one. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42191453/ns/tod...
boy who says he visited heaven and saw Jesus
And this is interesting real picture of Jesus. http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our... This Likeness of Jesus was copied from a portrait carved on an emerald by order of Tiberius Caesar, which emerald the Emperor of the Turks afterwards gave out of the Treasury of Constantinople to Pope Innocent VIII for the redemption of his brother, taken captive by the Christians.

When told to describe heaven all he could say was there's a lot ofcolor? There are better descriptions by Buddhist yogis!

Heaven is a new concep for Judaic religions, that's why for an easterner, these are evil religins--only eastern scriptures describe it vividly.

Hello wrote:

<quoted text>

I am reading about Buddhist Near Death Experiences Hello, and most of them automatically appear before a death judgement.
If you don't mind, I will post a couple.

"I, Phra Tanasiri Sirisumphan, a Buddhist Monk, was accompanying my cousin as he traveled to another province. I was thirteen years old at the time. While we were traveling, I came down with a toothache. I went to a dentist, who took the offending tooth out. I felt much better, but I still had some pain. I went to a hotel to sleep. But instead of falling asleep, I lost consciousness. When I came to, I found two Yamatoots. One of them was standing at the head of my bed, and the other at the foot. Both of them were holding torches. They looked about thirty years old, and had very dark skin. They said only "let's go". I asked them "where are you taking me?" They answered: "don't ask". I stood up and followed them. One of them said to the other: " He is too young, so I'm not going to help you. You do it alone, I have another job to attend to". Eventually, the remaining Yamatoot forced me to go with him. I followed him until we came to a crossroad. I became afraid at that point because I had lost my bearings, and would not be able to find my way back. Finally I came to a temple wall. The Yamatoot took me to a large gate Where I saw a monk giving a sermon to a group of elderly men and women. I made the formal gesture of respect to the Monk, and as I did so, I realized that the truth and highest form of help was to be found in The Lord Buddha, His Teachings, and those who ordain to follow his way (The Buddha, The Dharma, and the Sangha-also known as the ‘triple gem').

I walked to a classical style pavilion (Sala). The Yamatoot told me to wait for someone who was coming to meet us. A very large Yamatoot arrived who was wearing ancient armor, and carrying a spear. He was accompanied by a group of normal-sized Yamatoots, all of whom were carrying weapons. I felt that the situation was becoming very bad.

They took me to the house of Yama, the Lord of the Dead. Yama told me that I had committed many sins, especially in having butchered a number of chickens. I denied it, I said that I had not done that, not even once. Yama was surprised, and asked his records keeper."How old is he?" "Thirteen years, Lord", came the answer. "What's his name?" My name was read out. Yama said: "You've taken the wrong man. Take him back. Quickly. You've made a mistake". I said that, before I returned, I wanted to see hell. Yama answered: "No. The last thing I have to say to you is that you will die when you are 27 years old. Be ready"

Yama assigned a Yamatoot to accompany me back. He took me back to the crossroad where he said that I must go on from there alone. I was afraid, and asked him to take me all the way back. He said that I must go on alone. I walked on alone, and tripped on a tree root. I then revived.

When I was 27, I was ill with a stomach ache that lingered on for a year. My doctor advised surgery. I went in to the hospital, and the procedure began with anesthesia. As soon as I was under anesthesia, I saw the same Yamatoot. I remembered from the last time I had died and been revived. As he led me to hell's gate, I walked past a torture chamber. The first thing I saw was a big copper pot full of boiling water. It was full of people who cried out from fear. A Yamatoot stood by guarding the people who were being tortured in this way. I walked away from this scene and came to a stand of barren tamarind trees. Their normal bark was replaced by thousands of sharp spikes. Yamatoots at the foot of the tree forced people to climb these trees by prodding them with spears.

I didn't ask why these people were being tortured in this way. I already knew. They were being punished (for sexual wrongdoing). I continued down the same road and cams to some stairs. At the top of the stairs was a flock of birds. I climbed these stairs and found myself in the judgment hall of Yama's palace. I knew that they were ready to judge me for my sins. A giant rooster appeared who told Yama that I had killed him. He emphasized that I had tried to kill him again and again. The rooster said that he remembered me exactly. An entire flock of roosters also appeared and testified that I had killed them, as well. I remembered my actions, and I had to admit that the roosters had told the truth. Yama said that I had committed many sins, and sentenced me to many rebirths both as a chicken, and many other kinds of birds. After these births, I would then be reborn as an angelic being (Thevada) due to my having performed meritorious actions many times. After Yama was finished reading my sentence, he commanded a Yamatoot to take me to the place were I was to receive additional punishments. But, quite suddenly, an enormous turtle appeared. It screamed at Yama, saying "don't take him; he Is a good human, and he should be allowed to live." Yama asked the turtle " what did he do to help you?" The turtle answered. "Long ago, I almost died because another of these humans wanted to eat me. This man prevented him, and so, I was able to live out my life." Yama asked the turtle if he had any evidence. The turtle asked to be turned upside down, and told Yama to look at his underside where he would see where the man had carved his name so many years ago.

Yama saw the mans name was there just as the turtle had said, and believed the turtle's story. Yama announced that he was canceling the sentence, and told me that when I revived, I was to take a vow not to kill any living thing. He said that it was especially bad to kill animals because they had to live through so many lives in order to be reborn as humans. "Love the animals", he said, "as you love yourself".

I asked Yama: "what kind of meritorious actions must I perform in order to be reborn in your kingdom. As I came in, I saw your treasures, which are very great, and very beautiful". Yama answered, saying "You should build a temple. This will create a great deal of merit for you. You will then be reborn in my realm". Then Yama ordered one of the Yamatoots to take me to see the souls of those waiting to be reborn. I was taken to a beautiful garden, where they all lived. They wore the most beautiful clothes. I felt that they were so happy. I asked the Yamatoot, who was now acting as my guide, who they were. He said that they were going to be reborn on the earth. Their fortunate condition here was because they were without sin. I asked "will they be angels?" The Yamatoot answered that it was so. I then asked him to take me to see the Lord Buddha. I told him that I needed to see the Buddha. The Yamatoot looked up at the sky and pointed. "That big star," he said, "is the Lord Buddha, and all the little stars are the other enlightened ones: those who have followed the Dharma to the end. I'm afraid that you won't be able to see the Buddha in any other form. You are not pure enough." The Yamatoot then took me home, and I then revived. It was just 7:00 p.m."

#2. Woman, 58 Yrs. Old. University professor, U.S. Educated.

NDE began in her kitchen as a cobra bit her when she reached down to turn on the propane that fed her stove. Patient was put in a coffin which was placed in a Buddhist temple. She remained there for three days before reviving. Her NDE began with an autoscopic OBE. She then found herself in front of her house. Two men in western clothes appeared and told her to get up. They said they wanted to take her for a walk. She looked back and found that the house had disappeared. The path in front of her was misty. The weather was cool and pleasant. She saw crowds of people from which emerged an older man who she referred to as uncle (father's elder brother)'Pong'.

'Pong' told her that he was dead, and was there to welcome her.(he had, in fact, died the day after she was bitten by a cobra). Two men, not described, came to 'take her' for judgment. She came before a 'judge'(not described) who told her that although her name was the right name, it was actually another person of the same name who was to have been taken. He instructed the two to take her back. The patient resisted, and asked, before she went back, to know if heaven and hell were real. The judge instructed the guides to take her on a tour of heaven and hell. She was taken to heaven first. Her experience of heaven was of a cool place where birds, flowers and beautiful houses were found in abundance. Hell was a place where souls were tortured in various ways, with whippings specifically mentioned. After her tour was over, she revived, and began to beat on the lid of the coffin. The monks in the temple ran away, frightened, thinking that she was a ghost. One of her family members opened the coffin, and let her out.

#3. Woman, 43 Yrs. old. Has 4 children. 12 years education; married to college educated man. Cause of death unknown. Possibly related to anemia.

NDE began with a visitation by two white robed young men who were not known to the patient. They informed her that it was her time to die, and that she was to be taken for judgment. She did not want to go. One of the figures touched her arm, and she then had an OBE in which she 'flew' while holding the figure's arm. She saw the roof of the hospital as she felt herself fly upward. She reached the clouds, and found herself able to walk on the clouds. Shortly thereafter, she found herself in front of a desk. The figure behind the desk told her that she was the wrong person, and the right person was in the same hospital, in a room three doors down from the room in which she 'died'. The patient revived. Shortly after, a nurse working in a room three doors down from her collapsed and died. The nurse's family refused to allow an autopsy.

Thanks for those excerpts. I think the yamdoots purposely get the " wrong" person so they would get a tour of heaven and hell so they can take this message to people!

can we say these experience as connected to 'nimitta'?

marlin wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi Neal, here's interesting one. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42191453/ns/tod...
boy who says he visited heaven and saw Jesus
And this is interesting real picture of Jesus. http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our... This Likeness of Jesus was copied from a portrait carved on an emerald by order of Tiberius Caesar, which emerald the Emperor of the Turks afterwards gave out of the Treasury of Constantinople to Pope Innocent VIII for the redemption of his brother, taken captive by the Christians.

LOL..come on Marlin. You have people in India who say they've had NDEs and saw Krishna or Rams so those gods are real too right?

Also there are no contemporary accounts or eyewitness accounts of Jesus and the bible was written DECADES after the bible claimed he existed.

You citing a VERY pro Christian site doesn't mean anything. Talk to any history professor and they'll tell you there are no eyewitness accounts or contemporary accounts of Jesus. They may believe he existed but it's not based on eyewitness accounts of ANY historical figure!

Hello wrote:

<quoted text>
When told to describe heaven all he could say was there's a lot ofcolor? There are better descriptions by Buddhist yogis!
Heaven is a new concep for Judaic religions, that's why for an easterner, these are evil religins--only eastern scriptures describe it vividly.

But Hello, since when do Buddhists believe in heaven?? I've talked to Buddhists and they believe in re-incarnation.

Jay wrote:

<quoted text>
But Hello, since when do Buddhists believe in heaven?? I've talked to Buddhists and they believe in re-incarnation.

You should study Buddhism. Buddhism Tevijja or three Vedas is the knowledge of heavens and hells.
We even recollect at least seven heavens.
There is more description of heaven in Buddhism than any religion.

Marlin, another thing. Roman Emperors also commissioned the building of statues and idols of Greek gods so even IF an emperor had some images of Jesus made up it means nothing since there have been images of many other gods made by men.

Hello, that's surprising. In Hinduism there's technically a heaven but the stress is on re-incarnation. There's no hell per se as far as I know. Hell is being re-incarnated into the lowest form possible.

I thought they'd be more similar in that manner.

Actually, Buddhism has the most descriptive and detailed accounts of heaven and hell.

One can be reincarnated in heaven or hell, so belief in other worlds is not contradictory with the belief in reincarnation.

The oldest surviving explicit report of a NDE in Western literature comes from the famed Greek philosopher, Plato, who describes an event in his tenth book of his legendary book entitled Republic. Plato discusses the story of Er, a soldier who awoke on his funeral pyre and described his journey into the afterlife. But this story is not just a random anecdote for Plato. He integrated at least three elements of the NDE into his philosophy: the departure of the soul from the cave of shadows to see the light of truth, the flight of the soul to a vision of pure celestial being and its subsequent recollection of the vision of light, which is the very purpose of philosophy.

In Plato's Republic, he concludes his discussion of immortal soul and ultimate justice with the story of Er. The first point of Er's story is to report on this cosmic justice; it is:

"..the tale of a warrior bold, Er, the son of Armenious, by race a Pamphylian. He once upon a time was slain in battle, and when the corpses were taken up on the tenth day already decayed, he was found intact, and having been brought home, at the moment of his funeral, on the twelfth day as he lay upon the pyre, revived, and after coming to life related what, he said, he had seen in the world beyond. He said that when his soul went forth from his body he journeyed with a great company and that they came to a mysterious region where there were two openings side by side in the Earth, and above and over against them in the heaven two others, and that judges were sitting between these, and that after every judgment they bade the righteous journey to the right and upward through the heaven with tokens attached to them in front of the judgment passed upon them, and the unjust to take the road to the left and downward, they too wearing behind signs of all that had befallen them, and that when he himself drew near they told him that he must be the messenger to humanity to tell them of that other world, and they charged him to give ear and to observe everything in the place." (Rep. X,614 b,c,d)

From the other tunnels came souls preparing for reincarnation on Earth. From above came souls happily reporting "delights and visions of a beauty beyond words." From below came souls lamenting and wailing over a thousand years of dreadful sufferings, where people were repaid manifold for any earthly suffering they had caused. Journeying on, the newcomers saw:

"..extended from above throughout the heaven and the Earth, a straight light like a pillar, most nearly resembling the rainbow, but brighter and purer ... and they saw there at the middle of the light the extremities of its fastenings stretched from heaven, for this light was the girdle of the heavens like the undergirders of triremes, holding together in like manner the entire revolving vault." (Rep. X, 616 b,c)

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidenc...