Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

_BobLoblah_ wrote:

<quoted text>20Jun12
Why do you have a conscience????
If there is NO God, then hurting people means that 'ol Hitler got to end up in the same place as you will....according to you.
Ps:...there is NO such thing as an atheist.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah

so the bible is the only thing holding you from tortering and murdering ?

prove that atheism doesn't exist!

Eagle12 wrote:

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100%.
The only errors are in the interpretations by atheist.

Then address each of the contradictions mentioned in the video.

SupaAFC wrote:

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I know exactly what creationism is.
<quoted text>
Do you know what ID and creationism respectively are or are you just being dishonest?
<quoted text>
If that were the case, Buck...
... then why were these ID "scientists" arguing against evolutionary processes at Dover?
Why are the same arguments used in both ID circles (the bacterial flagellum) and creationist circles (the watchmaker argument)?
How do you explain "cdesign proponentists", a typo in "Of Pandas and People"?
<quoted text>
Perfect. Please direct me to scholarly material written by these ID "scientists" using these ID "methods" in their ID "research".

ID scientists did not argue against any evolutionary processes at Dover.

I have read the entire transcript. You are wrong.

Scholarly material?

Nature 453, 190-195 (8 May 2008)| doi:10.1038/nature06879; Received 25 October 2007; Accepted 3 March 2008; Published online 19 March 2008

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
Atheism is not the absence of belief.
It is a belief - that no god exists.
The absence of belief would be agnosticism.

No, atheism is the lack of theistic belief.

Agnosticism is the lack of *claimed knowledge* of one's position. There can be agnostic theists and agnostic atheists.

SupaAFC wrote:

<quoted text>
I know exactly what creationism is.
<quoted text>
Do you know what ID and creationism respectively are or are you just being dishonest?
<quoted text>
If that were the case, Buck...
... then why were these ID "scientists" arguing against evolutionary processes at Dover?
Why are the same arguments used in both ID circles (the bacterial flagellum) and creationist circles (the watchmaker argument)?
How do you explain "cdesign proponentists", a typo in "Of Pandas and People"?
<quoted text>
Perfect. Please direct me to scholarly material written by these ID "scientists" using these ID "methods" in their ID "research".

Find the creationism.

You don't know what you are talking about.

http://bio-complexity.org/ojs/index.php/main/...

http://www.tbiomed.com/content/4/1/47

http://www.lehigh.edu/~inbios/pdf/Behe/QRB_pa...

http://bio-complexity.org/ojs/index.php/main/...

_BobLoblah_ wrote:

<quoted text>20Jun12
Why do you have a conscience????
If there is NO God, then hurting people means that 'ol Hitler got to end up in the same place as you will....according to you.
Ps:...there is NO such thing as an atheist.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah

Blahblahblah, forever and ever.

Aerobatty wrote:

<quoted text>
So...believing no unicorns exist is a positive belief?
Do I now have to start labeling myself an aunicornist? An agnomist? An afairyist? An aSantaist?
I could spend the rest of eternity just stating my positive beliefs in nonexistent things. There's an infinite number of them.
But that would be a waste.
Just like Bucky.

Yes, believing unicorns do not exist is a positive belief.

I share it.

Is that hard for you - accepting that you believe things?

I don't find it that challenging, personally.

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, believing unicorns do not exist is a positive belief.
I share it.
Is that hard for you - accepting that you believe things?
I don't find it that challenging, personally.

You are twisting terms to suit your bs.

I do not believe that unicorns do not exist. I see no evidence to support the existences of unicorns.

Faith, the act of believing despite the lack of proof or even proof to the contrary, is not a mill stone that I wish to carry around my neck.

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
You are twisting terms to suit your bs.
I do not believe that unicorns do not exist. I see no evidence to support the existences of unicorns.
Faith, the act of believing despite the lack of proof or even proof to the contrary, is not a mill stone that I wish to carry around my neck.

So you allow that unicorns might exist, or have reached no conclusion on the point?

Well, OK.

Most believe they do not exist.

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
Can you answer some very simple questions?
1. Is jesus god?
2. Did jesus die on the cross?
3. Is jesus alive now?
4. Is jesus' mission complete? Has he done all that he was meant to do?
5. Are there humans, of former humans, in heaven or does everyone have to wait until judgment day?
6. If there are some in heaven, some in hell, and some that are waiting to be judged; what is the criteria for being judged and sent to your eternal reward while others wait?
7. What was god doing during the great battle of the angles?
8. Some say that good could not exist without evil; when god was alone, was he evil too?
9. Why did god create evil, or has it always existed?
10. Can we believe the bible when it tells us that the Earth is only about 6,000 years old?

1. No
2. Probably, but I'm not sure.
3. No
4. I have no way of knowing.
5. The eternal essence of past living people are in a non-physical realm, or they have reincarnated. It doesn't matter whether you call it heaven.
6. There is no hell and there is no judgement. We evaluate our previous physical life for the purpose of enrichment and progress to prepare for the next.
7. Hell if I know. I didn't even know angles have battles.
8. Some say lots of things. I would say good cannot exist without evil, as the polarity is necessary to define the good.
9. See #8
10. No

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
So you allow that unicorns might exist, or have reached no conclusion on the point?
Well, OK.
Most believe they do not exist.

Word play is fun, isn't it?

Has far as making conclusions, I have made a conclusion that the bible god is man made; all the evidence supports that conclusion.

Since there is no evidence for unicorns, there is no conclusion to make except, that there is no evidence for their existence. How much time and energy should I waste on something which has no evidence that it even exist?

Lay off the Unicorns...

They are AWESOME!

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
5. The eternal essence of past living people are in a non-physical realm, or they have reincarnated. It doesn't matter whether you call it heaven.
6. There is no hell and there is no judgement. We evaluate our previous physical life for the purpose of enrichment and progress to prepare for the next.

What do you remember about preparing for this go round? Was I there preparing for my next shot, too?

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
Can you answer some very simple questions?
1. Is jesus god?
2. Did jesus die on the cross?
3. Is jesus alive now?
4. Is jesus' mission complete? Has he done all that he was meant to do?
5. Are there humans, of former humans, in heaven or does everyone have to wait until judgment day?
6. If there are some in heaven, some in hell, and some that are waiting to be judged; what is the criteria for being judged and sent to your eternal reward while others wait?
7. What was god doing during the great battle of the angles?
8. Some say that good could not exist without evil; when god was alone, was he evil too?
9. Why did god create evil, or has it always existed?
10. Can we believe the bible when it tells us that the Earth is only about 6,000 years old?

I will play.

1.Yes.
2.Yes
3.Yes
4.Jesus mission was complete when he died and rose. Is Jesus mission with His Elect on earth complete?, no.
5.Human spirits are in heaven right now. Jesus told the thief on the cross today he will be with Jesus in paradise. There are spirits in hell right now. Judgement day is for those in hell and heaven to get new bodies to go with their spirit/soul.
6.see 5.
7.That's not for human to know the details. God did not reveal everything to humans.
8.God is Good, not Evil. God >>allows<< evil. Big difference.
9.see 8
10.Please reference book chapter and verse in the bible that says the earth is 6000yrs old.

That was fun:)

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
I intentionally said a stupid thing to illustrate your reasoning.
Glad you caught it.
Maybe I'll have better luck with you on this one than explaining why the length of a donut is not infinite.

Like all your arguments, this one too is flawed. It is a straw man.

I have never said that the length of a doughnut is infinite. What I have said is that the fundamental group of a doughnut is infinite. This means that one can inscribe an infinite path on the doughnut. That, however, does not mean the doughnut has "infinite length".

Select coordinates such that the unit circle, x^2 + y^2 = 1, lies on the doughnut, going around the hole. The path given by

x = sin t
y = cos t
for t =- infinity to infinity

This path lies on the doughnut and that path has infinite length...not the doughnut.

Your failure to comprehend the concepts is not my problem. You can either learn, or refuse to learn. So far, you have refused to learn.

wolverine wrote:

<quoted text>
Things Could Be Based On Cow Patties.....It Still Does Not Make Them True.

But it could explain a lot of shitty paradoxes that occur in nature..... just say'n ...

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
ID scientists did not argue against any evolutionary processes at Dover.

Yes, they did:

"In October 2004 the Dover Area School District changed its biology teaching curriculum to require that intelligent design be presented as an alternative to evolution theory, and that Of Pandas and People was to be used as a reference book."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Do...

If ID does not conflict with evolution then why would the School District have introduced it as an "alternative"?

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
I have read the entire transcript. You are wrong.

Then you have evidently not read the transcript or you would have read about the whole hubbub over the "irreducible complexity" of the bacterial flagellum where the creationist side claimed that evolution could not occur due to an organism requiring every single organ and body part to function.

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
Scholarly material?
Nature 453, 190-195 (8 May 2008)| doi:10.1038/nature06879; Received 25 October 2007; Accepted 3 March 2008; Published online 19 March 2008

I see what you've done there. You think, that because the article includes words like "designs" and "computational", that these scientists are arguing on behalf of ID. Unfortunately for you, they are not.

If you read the last sentence of the abstract:

"These results demonstrate the power of combining computational protein design with directed evolution for creating new enzymes, and we anticipate the creation of a wide range of useful new catalysts in the future."

"Directed evolution" demonstrates that not only are they not, in any shape or form, arguing against evolution or supporting ID, it demonstrates that similiar to hybridisation they are able to influence the environment of the enzymes in order to create new ones.

This is not, in any shape or form, supporting ID in the context of "poof, God made everything".

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
Find the creationism.

You're on.

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
http://bio-complexity.org/ojs/index.php/main/...

"Who is Douglas Axe?:

The original Discovery Institute plan laid out in the Wedge Document, leaked in 1999, called for Douglas Axe, the current Biologic Institute director, senior researcher and spokesman, to head up a research effort in support of intelligent design. However, the Discovery Institute did not begin executing this part of the Wedge Strategy plan until 2005."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biologic_Institu...

What is the Wedge Document?:

"The wedge strategy is a political and social action plan authored by the Discovery Institute, the hub of the intelligent design movement. The strategy was put forth in a Discovery Institute manifesto known as the Wedge Document, which describes a broad social, political, and academic agenda whose ultimate goal is to defeat materialism, naturalism, evolution, and "reverse the stifling materialist world view and replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_Document

Found creationism with a Google search of your first reference's author and two subsequent mouse clicks.

You claim ID is not related to creationism. You claim ID has no conflict with evolution.

Why then, Buck, are your sources from Christian creationists intending to combat evolution and any scientific material that contradicts fundamentalist Christian beliefs?

Thanks Buck.

Agreed.

Buck Crick wrote:

<quoted text>
1. No
2. Probably, but I'm not sure.
3. No
4. I have no way of knowing.
5. The eternal essence of past living people are in a non-physical realm, or they have reincarnated. It doesn't matter whether you call it heaven.
6. There is no hell and there is no judgement. We evaluate our previous physical life for the purpose of enrichment and progress to prepare for the next.
7. Hell if I know. I didn't even know angles have battles.
8. Some say lots of things. I would say good cannot exist without evil, as the polarity is necessary to define the good.
9. See #8
10. No

bossdrop wrote:

<quoted text>I will play.
1.Yes.
2.Yes
3.Yes
4.Jesus mission was complete when he died and rose. Is Jesus mission with His Elect on earth complete?, no.

Then, there is no second coming? Isn't that part of the prophecy that has yet been fulfilled?

bossdrop wrote:

<quoted text>5.Human spirits are in heaven right now. Jesus told the thief on the cross today he will be with Jesus in paradise. There are spirits in hell right now. Judgement day is for those in hell and heaven to get new bodies to go with their spirit/soul.

Do you have some bible verses that support your claim?

bossdrop wrote:

<quoted text>
6.see 5.
7.That's not for human to know the details. God did not reveal everything to humans.

Don't you find it odd that the angels did not know that god was omnipresent and therefore they could not plan a coup without him knowing? Lucifer is supposed to be so smart that he can trick the smartest human, right? If I were an angel, hanging around with god for so long, I believe that I would have realized that I could not have defeated my creator. Don't you think you would have reckoned that out, too? But this highly intelligent, super-nature being, who was in heaven with god, was too stupid to figure it out!?!?!? Really? That is what you believe?

bossdrop wrote:

<quoted text>8.God is Good, not Evil. God >>allows<< evil. Big difference.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.(Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Hmmm, god begs to differ with you.

bossdrop wrote:

<quoted text>
9.see 8
10.Please reference book chapter and verse in the bible that says the earth is 6000yrs old.
That was fun:)

Easy, add up the dates given. When you track the genealogical record in the bible you will discover that the earth is just over 6,000 years old.