Rubio pushes back at contraception rules under health care law

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downhill246 wrote:

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74 AD The Letter of Barnabas
.. Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born" (Letter of Barnabas 19).
90 AD Didache
.. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child" (Didache 2:1)
137 AD The Apocalypse of Peter
"And near that place I saw another strait place ... and there sat women ... And over against them many children who were born to them out of due time sat crying. And there came forth from them rays of fire and smote the women in the eyes. And these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion" (The Apocalypse of Peter 25).
170 AD Mark Felix
"There are some women among you who by drinking special potions extinguish the life of the future human in their very bowels, thus committing murder before they even give birth." (Mark Felix, Christian Lawyer, Octavius chap. 30)
177 AD Athenagoras
"What reason would we have to commit murder when we say that women who induce abortions are murderers, and will have to give account of it to God? For the same person would not regard the fetus in the womb as a living thing and therefore an object of God's care, and at the same time slay it, once it had come to life." (Athenagoras Plea, ch.35)
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226 AD Minucius Felix
"There are some [pagan] women who, by drinking medical preparations, extinguish the source of the future man in their very bowels and thus commit a parricide before they bring forth. And these things assuredly come down from the teaching of your [false] gods.... To us [Christians] it is not lawful either to see or hear of homicide" (Octavius 30).
374 AD Basil the Great
.... But the man, or woman, is a murderer that gives a philtrum, if the man that takes it die upon it; so are they who take medicines to procure abortion; and so are they who kill on the highway, and rapparees" ((First Canonical Letter, canon 8).
391 AD John Chrysostom
"Wherefore I beseech you, flee fornication ... Why sow where the ground makes it its care to destroy the fruit?--where there are many efforts at abortion?--where there is murder before the birth? For even the harlot you do not let continue a mere harlot, but make her a murderess also. You see how drunkenness leads to prostitution, prostitution to adultery, adultery to murder; or rather to a something even worse than murder. For I have no name to give it, since it does not take off the thing born, but prevents its being born. Why then do thou abuse the gift of God, and fight with His laws, and follow after what is a curse as if a blessing, and make the chamber of procreation a chamber for murder, and arm the woman that was given for childbearing unto slaughter? For with a view to drawing more money by being agreeable and an object of longing to her lovers, even this she is not backward to do, so heaping upon thy head a great pile of fire. For even if the daring deed be hers, yet the causing of it is thine" (Homilies on Romans 24).
396 AD Jerome
Blah, blah, blah blah

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barefoot2626 wrote:

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As soon as they elect a woman as pope, sure, why not?

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Mykro wrote:

<quoted text>Thou shalt not lie about healthcare.

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Morgana 9 wrote:

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Thank you.
I get all tingly inside when I read about or hear yet another man speak regarding the reproductive lives of women and their responsibilities.
It is almost as if they know what is best for all women speaking from "their" close personal experiences.
I also have to admire how they most certainly brought women to the table to discuss such matters and allowed their input in the governing of their own lives. These men of course were never known to dictate to women or to cast them in an inferior light as they believed them to be their equals.
I would go on, but for some reason I feel the need to vomit.

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LadiLulu wrote:

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The word "abortion" never appeared in the Bible. These are mere re-interpretations.
They don't qualify.

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downhill246 wrote:

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Vomit? Maybe you are having morning sickness or you could be just a lousy cook.. The fact remains, Jesus Christ treated women as equals when all contemporary societies treated them as grossly inferior. That would include the Romans, the Greeks, and even the Jews, not to mention a vast array of minor pagan societies that would easily barter you to their horny neighbors for a couple of goats. Yet the early church Jesus created stated abortion was murder which is what the original poster asked me to reference.

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downhill246 wrote:

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Do you believe every single word Jesus ever said are in the New Testament?
"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written".
(John 21:25)
The Didache or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles which condemned abortion as murder probably would have been another book of the New Testament if its apostolic origin could have been confirmed.
Further I could make a strong argument that the New Testament does speak about abortions.

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Bythebay wrote:

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The only reason for any religion to flourish is the shameless indoctrination of children in religious dogma long before they can make intelligent evaluations of the ideas. How can people talk about a Christian or Muslim child? Is that any different than talking about a post-modernist or socialist child?

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LadiLulu wrote:

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Purely speculative, no more.

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downhill246 wrote:

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Vomit? Maybe you are having morning sickness or you could be just a lousy cook.. The fact remains, Jesus Christ treated women as equals when all contemporary societies treated them as grossly inferior. That would include the Romans, the Greeks, and even the Jews, not to mention a vast array of minor pagan societies that would easily barter you to their horny neighbors for a couple of goats. Yet the early church Jesus created stated abortion was murder which is what the original poster asked me to reference.

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LadiLulu wrote:

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Actually, you posted re-interpretations.
I repeat: the term abortion does not appear anywhere in the Bible.
Jesus never mentioned abortion, either.
Clearly it was not an issue to him.

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downhill246 wrote:

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The only reason for atheism to flourish is the shameless indoctrination of children in atheistic dogma long before they can make intelligent evaluations of the ideas.This fact is confirmed by the massive survey in 2007 by the Pew Forum on Religion in American Life which stated that half of the 7% of adults brought up in non religious households turn to God/religion as adults.They went on to say only Jehovah Witnesses had a higher defection rate. Apparently many people do not believe they are merely accidents of nature, with no purpose in life.

downhill246 wrote:

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As is the claim that Jesus said nothing about abortion. Remember Jesus didn't write a book, He created a church and He commanded His followers to go out and teach all that He taught them.
Mt 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations ... teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.”
2 Thes 2:15 “Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”

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downhill246 wrote:

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The only reason for atheism to flourish is the shameless indoctrination of children in atheistic dogma long before they can make intelligent evaluations of the ideas.This fact is confirmed by the massive survey in 2007 by the Pew Forum on Religion in American Life which stated that half of the 7% of adults brought up in non religious households turn to God/religion as adults.They went on to say only Jehovah Witnesses had a higher defection rate. Apparently many people do not believe they are merely accidents of nature, with no purpose in life.

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Mykro wrote:

<quoted text>You have no clue. I was raised as a catholic and went to a catholic school until the 7th grade. Since confirmation when I was 14, I haven't been in a church . I'm now 66 and I can say religion is for the ignorant.

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HeavensToMergatroid wrote:

<quoted text>OK then..you aren't racist, but you are ignorant.

downhill246 wrote:

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According to John, Jesus said and did much more than is found in scripture so your argument carries little weight.
Seneca, the Roman moralist, called unchastity "the greatest evil of our time" (De Consolatione ad Helviam 15.3). In light of this pronounced deterioration of marriage, countless Roman women engaged in adulterous sex, and when they became pregnant, they destroyed the evidence of their sexual indiscretions, thus adding to Rome's widespread abortions.
Pharmakeia (from which our word pharmacy comes) originally referred to the use of potions, drugs, and often poisons, generally for evil purposes.
Writing to the Christians in Galatia about A.D. 55, St. Paul issued a catalogue of sins (Galatlans 5:20). One of the sins mentioned is "pharmakeia", the making and administering of potions. It is quite likely that when Paul used the word pharmakeia in Galatians, he meant the practice of abortion, because administering medicinal potions was a common way of inducing abortions among the Greco-Romans. There is additional evidence in the New Testament in support of this argument. In Revelation 21:8, where the Apostle John condemns "sexual immorality," these two words are immediately followed by the plural word pharmakois, evidently because sexual immorality often resulted in unwanted pregnancies being aborted.
That pharmakeia (pharmakon), as used by St. Paul in his letter to the Galatians and St. John in the book of Revelation, apparently refers to the practice of abortion has added support in extrabiblical literature, both pagan and Christian. Plutarch (A.D. 46 - 120), a pagan, uses pharmakeia to note that it was especially used for contraception and abortion purposes (Romulus 22 of his Parallel Lives).Referencing the Didache once again,it says that abortion is forbidden, and in so arguing, it uses the words ou pharmakeuseis (you shall not use potions). These words are immediately followed by "ou pharmakeuseis teknon en phthora" (you shall not kill a child by abortion). This passage seems to link potions (drugs) with the killing of an unborn child. So to say there is no mention of abortion in the New Testament is merely an opinion, mainly an opinion by those that don't want abortion mentioned in the New Testament for moral reasons.

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LadiLulu wrote:

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Again, purely speculative. You can not attribute things to him that he did not say. We can only go by what was (presumably) documented. Anything else is meaningless.

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LadiLulu wrote:

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No, because there is no mention of abortion, merely interpretations and guess-timations. For some reason, certain people seem to *want* abortion to be mentioned in the new testament, so they make it appear that it is. My opinion is based on *fact*, the actual written word, whilst your opinion is based on speculation and word-play.

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downhill246 wrote:

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Incorrect. Ideas are not formed in a vacuum and certainly not so early in the history of the movement. Jesus was a Jew and Jews taught that abortion was wrong. The rabbis ruled that the Sabbath, which can be broken only to preserve human life, could be violated to save a fetus. The kohanes, or priestly class, were forbidden to touch a corpse. Contact with a miscarried fetus was considered within this category of ritual defilement. In Temple times, the capital trial of a pregnant woman was delayed until after she delivered.
“The law, moreover, enjoins us to bring up all our offspring, and forbids women to cause abortion of what is begotten, or to destroy it afterward; and if any woman appears to have so done, she will be a murderer of her child, by destroying a living creature, and diminishing human kind; if any one, therefore, proceeds to such fornication or murder, he cannot be clean.”
(Flavius Josephus, Against Apion, Book II, 25).