In America, atheists are still in the closet

EBeasley wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry, never heard of David Barton. And you are wrong about the founding fathers. Have you read any of their histories? Or just talked to other athiests? They deliberately kept religion out of the constitution because they didn't want any state religion such as they had had in Europe not because they didn't think church was a good thing or that they didn't believe in God.

First of all, I suggest that YOU read some history of the Founders...particularly Franklin and Jefferson. Not Christians. Deists.

Jefferson's opinion of Jesus was that Jesus had some pretty good ideas, but was just a man...not divine.

As for the reason you stated for religion being kept out of the Constitution, yes that was part of it. What I wrote does not deny that fact. What I stated was that many Christians of the time considered the Constitution a "Godless document" and fought to keep it from being accepted.

Again, you are merely engaging in apologetics.

As for Barton, what you say is pretty much his party line. But then, Barton is known for lying about American history...a LOT.

ChristineM wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes it can, you are simply unwilling to accept valid and verifiable explanations because they upset you god dif.

No. I don't accept them either. But not because of god. I don't accept them as valid and verifiable because they are neither not valid nor verifiable.

EBeasley wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm happy we agree on something at least. Freedom of speech. I too have had Jehovah's witnesses come by my home and try to talk to me. I've had salespeople in the mall bother me too and annoying telemarketing calls. They are people just trying to make a living. Like you, I support them and their freedom of speech. Not all of any kind of people are either good or bad though. I have had inconsiderate athiests bother me for example. It's not fair to judge them all by a few though. None of my personal acquaintances are Jehovahs's witnesses though. None deliberately bother people and try to get in their faces about their religion. Some offer it to others because it has helped their lives so much and they want to help others. It's wrong to judge Arabs, Chinese or any race, party or religion by a few that you know though. Don't you agree? I keep hearing on this thread that all Christians are such and such. I find it not fair and not true either. There are many people who are good and trying to live good lives. Sociopaths are the one exception that I find. As a group, they have criminal minds and no conscience so it's safe to say "stay away from them". Other than that, I know of no other groups you can lump like that.

Beasley, I agree with you on not judging a group of people on the actions of some. And as for Jehovahs Witnesses, they are going to door to door with good intentions, it still doesn't excuse the fact that they are peddling their beliefs on others right on their doorstep. If atheists came around door to door doing something like that you would find there would be a public outcry by most religious groups, especially the groups of the judeo-christian faiths. Look at the public outcry over that recent atheist billboard, I forgot where it was. That stirred up alot of theists who called it propaganda and such. Fox News even had a field day with it.

As for your comment that atheists on this thread keep saying ALL christians are such and such. Well that exactly what most of the theists on here, besides you, have been saying about the atheists, the biggest being that ALL atheists are immoral and inherently evil. You are the minority theist on here by not judging us all as one and I appreciate that.

Atheist Liberal wrote:

<quoted text>
No. I don't accept them either. But not because of god. I don't accept them as valid and verifiable because they are neither not valid nor verifiable.

And neither is your god but you accept him so clearly you have the ability to accept something that is not verifiable or valid.

woodtick57 wrote:

<quoted text>for every page of those quotes you can find, there is a page of quotes where they speak against religion and christianity in particular.

And in every case, their remarks that appear to speak against religion, were actually taken out of context...usually by a cretin atheist such as yourself.

ChristineM wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes it can, you are simply unwilling to accept valid and verifiable explanations because they upset you god did it sensibilities. You have never said why you feel such explanations are not valid just as have you not provided evidence of ID. Now why is that? Stamping your foot and repeating the same drivel over and over again does not constitute proof.

I've been asking for veritable explanations on this forum for two weeks...no one has any. A few links were posted, only to be immediately debunked.

Sigh,

HTS! Why won't you just leave us alone? We don't come to your church and preach evolution and yet you come here to preach to us. Just leave us alone and let us be who we are. Is that too difficult for you? To be tolerant or others beliefs? To respect them? To just let people be themselves? Is it beyond you?

Mike_N wrote:

<quoted text>
Well that exactly what most of the theists on here, besides you, have been saying about the atheists, the biggest being that ALL atheists are immoral and inherently evil. You are the minority theist on here by not judging us all as one and I appreciate that.

You're such a liar. Either that or you're a moron who consistently displays an inability to learn accurate knowledge.
Christians on this forum have not been saying that atheists are inherantly evil and immoral. They've been saying that atheism as a religion leads to evil and moral bankruptcy....which is common sense and fits with what is going on in the real world.

Krinkle wrote:

Sigh,
HTS! Why won't you just leave us alone? We don't come to your church and preach evolution and yet you come here to preach to us. Just leave us alone and let us be who we are. Is that too difficult for you? To be tolerant or others beliefs? To respect them? To just let people be themselves? Is it beyond you?

Thank you, Krinkle, for validating my point. Evolution is a religion.

Evolutionist L.T. More, in his book The Dogma of Evolution, observed,

"The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone; exactly the same sort of faith which it is necessary to have when one encounters the great mysteries of religion."

*(More L.T., The Dogma of Evolution, Princeton University Press: Princeton NJ, 1925, Second Printing, p.160

Evolution is not science, so stop pretending that it is.

EBeasley wrote:

Hoping something is not true does not make it not true.

You know, that works both ways.

Hoping something is true does not make it true either.

Atheist Liberal wrote:

Christians on this forum have not been saying that atheists are inherantly evil and immoral. They've been saying that atheism as a religion leads to evil and moral bankruptcy....which is common sense and fits with what is going on in the real world.

Well, that makes no sense.

Atheist aren't evil but they follow a religion that makes them evil?

So, are they evil or not?

Krinkle wrote:

Sigh,
HTS! Why won't you just leave us alone? We don't come to your church and preach evolution and yet you come here to preach to us. Just leave us alone and let us be who we are. Is that too difficult for you? To be tolerant or others beliefs? To respect them? To just let people be themselves? Is it beyond you?

Why don't you atheists leave us alone? Stop trying to destroy America while you're at it. You are justifiably despised.

JustWow wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, that makes no sense.
Atheist aren't evil but they follow a religion that makes them evil?
So, are they evil or not?

It makes perfect sense. Atheists follow a faith that makes them more likely to do the wrong things...make the wrong choices (yes, even the evil choices). And it fits the real world. Atheist liberalism is destroying our society or economy and our future as a successful nation.

Atheist Liberal wrote:

<quoted text>
You're such a liar. Either that or you're a moron who consistently displays an inability to learn accurate knowledge.
Christians on this forum have not been saying that atheists are inherantly evil and immoral. They've been saying that atheism as a religion leads to evil and moral bankruptcy....which is common sense and fits with what is going on in the real world.

yes, actually some have said that.

and no, the real world does not hold your theory to be true, common, or based on any sense.

HTS wrote:

So, you admit that science cannot explain abiogenesis.

If you mean that science cannot explain it yet, then yes, I've already said so. I think that all have in one way or another. And if you agree with us, then congratulations to you for admitting it.

HTS wrote:

What makes you so certain that no intelligent design was necessary?

Nothing. I'm not certain. Didn't I already explain secular belief to you?

Trust based on experience which is tentative, commensurate with the quality and quantity of evidence supporting it, and sensitive to new relevant evidence is called evidence based thought, and should NEVER be called faith, as you had previously done.

Contrast this with it's polar opposite, which you also call faith. Religious faith is resolute certainty without sufficient support, perhaps even in the face of conflicting data, based on a hope, wish or guess, and totally refractory to any new evidence. Faith is a nonstarter, logically speaking. It is exactly the same thing as treating a hypothesis like a premise. Obviously, everything that follows is unsound.

Now tell me again if I say that I am CERTAIN that there is no intelligent designer, or merely consider it a claim without support? How could you support it? You don't even a clear definition of what is meant by "intelligent," "design," or "irreducible" or "specified complexity." You have zero functional (operational) definitions for any of these.

You don't even have a scientific theory, i.e., is potentially falsifiable if false, unifies and explains many diverse observations with a handful of laws, generates unexpected and confirmed predictions, and suggests additional fruitful avenues of investigation. That's science.

JustWow wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, that makes no sense.
Atheist aren't evil but they follow a religion that makes them evil?
So, are they evil or not?

Those who follow atheism to its logical conclusion (Stalin, Lenin, Mao).. commit heinous acts against humanity.

Atheist Liberal wrote:

<quoted text>
It makes perfect sense. Atheists follow a faith that makes them more likely to do the wrong things...make the wrong choices (yes, even the evil choices). And it fits the real world. Atheist liberalism is destroying our society or economy and our future as a successful nation.

hardly. and again, the real world does not back up your concept.

JustWow wrote:

<quoted text>
You are forgetting an entire category of god.
The ones that don't interfere.
The ones who let the universe begin and evolve all on its own.
No magic needed.
Do you think the gods of all religions are just like the god of the christians/muslims/jews?
Do you realize that not even the jews (the ones who can actually lay claim to the god of the OT) believe the bible is a true story?

Again you miss the point.

No magic needed = no divinity = not a god.

If there is no magic outside the natural world, and the "god" created the universe with natural means that obey the laws of physics, even if he no longer interferes in the universe then (drum roll) isn't he just an alien?

Atheist Liberal wrote:

It makes perfect sense. Atheists follow a faith that makes them more likely to do the wrong things.

Such as?

What "wrong things" do atheist do in a higher proportion than theists?

Did you know that a christian is 50 times more likely to spend time in prison than an atheist?

[figures based on the percentage of atheist in the general population vs. the percentage of atheist in prison when compared to the same numbers for christians]

Atheist Liberal wrote:

..make the wrong choices (yes, even the evil choices).

Such as?

Atheist Liberal wrote:

And it fits the real world. Atheist liberalism is destroying our society or economy and our future as a successful nation.

how so?

Please be specific as to what it is aheists are doing that christians are not doing that is causing all of the problems that you see.

woodtick57 wrote:

<quoted text>if you had read all that you suggested with an objective eye, you would have realized that those men then set up a SECULAR gov't.
Not a christian nation. Not a nationof christian values but a nation of values long held by humans before someone invented the christian religion.
D- on your civics test.(yes, I'm a softie grader...)

grade inflation... he needs to go back a few grades and repeat primary school social studies.