Lutherans Offer Warm Welcome to Gay Pastors

It is rather liberating to see who the real Christians are and who the little wannabe christians are.

Dubya wrote:

It is rather liberating to see who the real Christians are and who the little wannabe christians are.

God knows those that are His. He need not have man figure that out for Him. Those that obey His Word...Not the men pleasers as you are seeing! Actually...their judgement will be worse than those that they lead. It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of a Mighty God that one has chosen to disobey. This is an example of "the blind leading the blind".

It's funny how 2 people can look at the same thing, and see 2 completely opposite things.

Humans are funny animals.

The second post, probably from "him", is a perfect example of someone who can't stay away from this forum and who purports to speak for "god".

He doesn't!

Frank Stanton wrote:

It's funny how 2 people can look at the same thing, and see 2 completely opposite things.
Humans are funny animals.

The first is a person who has accepted and loves self and the god he knows. The second is a person in denial about his identity and is using religion as a reinforcement of self hate and hate of others. Self love breeds love of others. Self hate breeds hate of others.

His Own wrote:

<quoted text>God knows those that are His. He need not have man figure that out for Him. Those that obey His Word...Not the men pleasers as you are seeing! Actually...their judgement will be worse than those that they lead. It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of a Mighty God that one has chosen to disobey. This is an example of "the blind leading the blind".

God knows..He..? Really...a He..? How do u know this God is a "He" ? Could be He,She,It,Entity....a orb or light/energy? Obey his word? Really...? So this God WROTE this down>? On paper that magically appeared/book format? Wow, an Almighty God? hmmmm - The ONLY Almighty God I see in the sky is the SUN....we CAN Feel it/See it....Know its affects on OUR world,and our population....without the SUN, we would NOT exist. ALL Hail the Sun God!! The Sun won't talk to you...but you get the idea of how to respect it.

Dis-American,

Hmm, let's see, Jesus taught us how to pray, which began: "Our Father...."

Rather declarative, kinda like the term God the Son.....ya know?

Cheers.

Hey Rev-Ray,

Last time I checked, the consistency of the biblical doctrines concerning homosexuality from the OT to the NT remain unchanged, even though Messiah fulfilled the prophecies pertaining to the Reconciliation between God and man:

Leviticus, Romans, various Pauline Epistles, Jude, Revelation.......all say the same thing: it's about loving God more than loving self...

"Loving self" is what got the whole sin, Hell, Lake of Fire thing rolling in the first place....."I shall make myself like the Most High.."

Yeah, that 'self-love' thing worked out real well for him, didn't it?

Cheers.

Hey Jason 1,

God speaks and spoke for Himself for quite a long time now: it's called the Bible and according to Jesus and His Apostles, God the Holy Spirit wrote it for us to read; so we'd know what God wanted for us in our lives.

Preaching the Gospel of Christ is an act of love: those who wish to reject it are fully enabled to so do, as God created them with Free Will.

However, like any Household, the House has Rules for the inhabitants.....and a LOT of folks in your camp, really don't like the rules.

Your answers? Denigrate anyone with whom you disagree, redefine terms to suit your needs, and generally speaking continue to refuse to actually engage openly, honestly, logically, and empirically about the issues which have you all upset (in this case, homosexuality) against the Word of God.

Were I to leave my Bible unopened and strictly rely upon science and medicine, homosexuals and their proponents would still lose the argument: human biology is bases solely upon the Heterosexual Model.

Medical science has proven that homosexual acts seriously degenerate the human body, inviting all sorts of horrific diseases and conditions into the homosexual's body: and this was BEFORE the advent of HIV/AIDS.

You can rant and hate all you like, but the empirical evidence is against you.

Cheers.

Hey J.R,

Nothing you wrote has any grounding in reality. And since you haven't offered any facts and have only been quoting the ancient, extremely inconsistent writings of an old desert people, and rather than rant and rave, which you notice I have been doing (?), I will stay calm and won't argue with you.

I do urge you to go back to Pekin and stay there!

Oh, and J.R,

I notice you have been pretty upset with the Lutherans.

Get used to being upset!

JR Bailey wrote:

Hey Jason 1,
God speaks and spoke for Himself for quite a long time now: it's called the Bible and according to Jesus and His Apostles, God the Holy Spirit wrote it for us to read; so we'd know what God wanted for us in our lives.

You've been fooled by the lies of men. The bible was written by men and edited and translated and compiled by men. They TOLD you that they speak for the gods, and you believed them, but it isn't true.

JR Bailey wrote:

Preaching the Gospel of Christ is an act of love: those who wish to reject it are fully enabled to so do, as God created them with Free Will.
However, like any Household, the House has Rules for the inhabitants.....and a LOT of folks in your camp, really don't like the rules.

That's because the rules were concocted by men who wanted to grab power, not by any god that couldn't even explain its bizarre rules. Are you a shellfish-eating or NON-shellfish-eating Christian? Can you explain why you choose to obey or disobey THAT rule?

JR Bailey wrote:

Your answers? Denigrate anyone with whom you disagree...

Telling people that they have no right to discriminate against us, or to use the bible as an excuse to enact legislation to place restrictions on our lives, is NOT "denigrating" them.

JR Bailey wrote:

...redefine terms to suit your needs, and generally speaking continue to refuse to actually engage openly, honestly, logically, and empirically about the issues which have you all upset (in this case, homosexuality) against the Word of God.

I'd like god to explain his problem with homosexuality, when it harms no one, and hasn't interfered with humanity's ability to populate the planet. He should explain why discrimination, and even violence, is called for against people simply because of how and who they love. Please note that I said I want to hear GOD'S explanation, not YOURS in his place. Is your god all-powerful, so that he can communicate directly to me? Or does he need humans to act as his mouthpiece? I'm afraid I distrust any humans who claim to carry god's message FOR me.

JR Bailey wrote:

Were I to leave my Bible unopened and strictly rely upon science and medicine, homosexuals and their proponents would still lose the argument: human biology is bases solely upon the Heterosexual Model.

No, not SOLELY, it isn't. There are MANY ways to do things in this world, including many ways to be human. I didn't INVENT homosexuality, that was done by either nature or by your god, so you should accept it. If it were going to go away, that would have happened already.

JR Bailey wrote:

Medical science has proven that homosexual acts seriously degenerate the human body, inviting all sorts of horrific diseases and conditions into the homosexual's body: and this was BEFORE the advent of HIV/AIDS.

No, medical science hasn't proven any such thing. Please cite your sources for such information. I'm as gay as the day is long, and I'm as healthy as a horse. So would anyone be who engages in responsible safe-sex practices. Religiously minded people would know this if they weren't so busy crushing all attempts at sexual and contraceptive education, and encouraging sexual repression all around.

JR Bailey wrote:

You can rant and hate all you like, but the empirical evidence is against you.
Cheers.

We rant because of the hate piled UPON us, by people who then turn to their neighbors and preach peace and love.

But when it comes to empirical evidence, don't make me laugh. No religion on Earth has a SHRED of it. Stories about talking animals are not "evidence". Claims about messages from the gods are just that - claims. They still REQUIRE evidence. Where IS your empirical evidence? Should we just take your word for it? Is THAT what evidence is?

JR Bailey wrote:

Hey Rev-Ray,
Last time I checked, the consistency of the biblical doctrines concerning homosexuality from the OT to the NT remain unchanged, even though Messiah fulfilled the prophecies pertaining to the Reconciliation between God and man:
Leviticus, Romans, various Pauline Epistles, Jude, Revelation.......all say the same thing: it's about loving God more than loving self...
"Loving self" is what got the whole sin, Hell, Lake of Fire thing rolling in the first place....."I shall make myself like the Most High.."
Yeah, that 'self-love' thing worked out real well for him, didn't it?
Cheers.

There is no condemnation of homosexuality in the OT or the NT.

His Own wrote:

<quoted text>God knows those that are His. He need not have man figure that out for Him. Those that obey His Word...Not the men pleasers as you are seeing! Actually...their judgement will be worse than those that they lead. It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of a Mighty God that one has chosen to disobey. This is an example of "the blind leading the blind".

We are so glad that you have passed god's unfailing word along to us. We bow to you greater knowledge and wisdom. We laud you for telling us what god says. Thank you. Praise be to you. We worship your superiority.

JR Bailey wrote:

Hey Rev-Ray,
Last time I checked, the consistency of the biblical doctrines concerning homosexuality from the OT to the NT remain unchanged, even though Messiah fulfilled the prophecies pertaining to the Reconciliation between God and man:
Leviticus, Romans, various Pauline Epistles, Jude, Revelation.......all say the same thing: it's about loving God more than loving self...
"Loving self" is what got the whole sin, Hell, Lake of Fire thing rolling in the first place....."I shall make myself like the Most High.."
Yeah, that 'self-love' thing worked out real well for him, didn't it?
Cheers.

You want to talk consistency? Let's take something a little more fundamental than one's sexual orientation - how about killing?

Your deity says, thou shalt not kill (I believe that's one of the big 10). But even a cursory glance at your sacred text shows that your deity either kills, or commands to be killed, an awful lot of people.

How can you believe in something, some being, who is so evil, unjust, immoral? Shame on you. Don't get me started on hell: Religion tells us, against all instinct and rational knowledge, that we are all born evil and doomed. Come on! Why would you think that? Then, wonder of wonders, religion gives us the cure. What would you think of a doctor who cut you, then sold you a bandage? Immoral. Same diff.

Rev Ray wrote:

<quoted text>
The first is a person who has accepted and loves self and the god he knows. The second is a person in denial about his identity and is using religion as a reinforcement of self hate and hate of others. Self love breeds love of others. Self hate breeds hate of others.

Wrong! REV!

JR Bailey wrote:

Hey Rev-Ray,
Last time I checked, the consistency of the biblical doctrines concerning homosexuality from the OT to the NT remain unchanged, even though Messiah fulfilled the prophecies pertaining to the Reconciliation between God and man:
Leviticus, Romans, various Pauline Epistles, Jude, Revelation.......all say the same thing: it's about loving God more than loving self...
"Loving self" is what got the whole sin, Hell, Lake of Fire thing rolling in the first place....."I shall make myself like the Most High.."
Yeah, that 'self-love' thing worked out real well for him, didn't it?
Cheers.

Well spoken JR...but tese people only want support and I guess if we caan nor do that we are "haters"....we know the truth,and so do they. God would not give them over until He has dealt with them...I am sure He has...many times.

His Own wrote:

<quoted text>God knows those that are His. He need not have man figure that out for Him. Those that obey His Word...Not the men pleasers as you are seeing! Actually...their judgement will be worse than those that they lead. It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of a Mighty God that one has chosen to disobey. This is an example of "the blind leading the blind".

Give that speech to your mirror. You do not remind me of Jesus.

It is nice to see that the ELCA has finally arrived at the same place as the UCC and the Episcopalians. The next step is for the Lutherans in Finland and Denmark to fully recognize same sex marriage so those states will catch up to the other three Nordic lands and make it legal.
(Estonia and Latvia are too backward to consider, Lutheran or not.)

Hello All and especially my Edmonds Homey,

I cited some of the books which clearly state that homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God, but per the usual, none of you homosexual proponents are able to actually defend your points of view; most certainly not without invective.

How tolerant and open minded of you.

Secondly, do your own leg work vis-a-vis the severely NEGATIVE aspects of Homosexual Behaviours on the human body: medical report after medical report, clearly provides clinical evidence that homosexual sexual activity results in direct damage to the human body, the inception of serious diseases (not merely HIV/AIDS) which debilitate, and most certainly said diseases cause a serious deterioration in the quality of life.

Human biology is as clear as possible can be, that homosexuality is not the 'norm' intended by Nature. The very design of the human body indicates the logical and empirical view that homosexuality can never be considered normal, natural, or intended by Nature.

You can argue against the biology behind the science, but you'll lose, just as you folks do most arguments.

God does NOT hate homosexuals: He allowed Himself to be put on the cross to prove His love for you: however, like the Rev. Ray put it, the Central Theme of Homosexuality and the Homosexual Political Agenda is 'self-love'; it is Narcissism in the extreme and even a moderate perusal of homosexual media proves this point.

Hatred is hated pure and simple: the hatred of homosexuals against God the Father, God the Son, and all biblical Christians is readily apparent, as can be seen by the invective here, on homosexual sites, and even in the Tees worn with the "NO BREEDERS" signage.

The last example is not just directed at heterosexuals in general, but at biblical Christians in particular.

Personally, I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes: that's between adults and God, not me.

However, when homosexual proponents bring their arguments for 'normalcy' and 'acceptance' to the Public Forum, thereby getting 'in my face', then YOU make it my business when I did not want any part of it.

You asked for it, now you've got it.

Keep up the good work.

Oh yeah, thanks again for the 'open mindedness','tolerance', and being so 'accepting of opinions diverse from your own.'

Yeah, right.

Cheers.