Culp's Hill next for tree cutting

Anyone know the impact this will have on global warming? Less trees ->more CO2 ->more warming. Right?

ummmm wrote:

Anyone know the impact this will have on global warming? Less trees ->more CO2 ->more warming. Right?

The globe is not warming...who told you it was? Al Gore?

Funny you should ask.

On his way home from his mineral mines, Al picked me up in his private jet. On the way to his mansion, which he bought with his oil money( he has more than -gasp- Bush), he explained how this whole global warming thing works.

So let me get this straight...the environmental wackos that fund the DNC will protest and raise holy hell when a logger wants to earn a living, or if we want to drill for oil in the middle of nowhere(because of caribou), but don't raise a peep to this! Every animal that live in this are will have to move, more than likely on the Baltimore pike where we get to kill them with our cars. And why are we spending all this money? For cosmetic reasons(oh and the history buffs). Funny until a couple years ago no one cared about trees on the battlefield, now that they took down the tower we have to make it look exactly like 1863.

yep so they can see it from the ground instead of from above from the tower.... now cut down all the trees and bulldoze all the buildings and maybe they will be happy.. oh cover all the roads with dirt and mud again

I saw today (Friday, July 10th) on www.gettyburgdaily.com that Christ Lutheran Church on Chambersburg Street in Gettysburg is planning to cut down TWO WITNESS TREES this coming week. If you're really worried about historical trees, that would be the place to focus your attention now. Call or visit them and tell them what you really think, and always remember to ask where the money will go. At least go take a picture before the trees are cut down.

Johnson you are a stupit sob I used a tree for 10 years as a place to hang a target to sight at least 5 guns in { it is still living} quit blowing smoke up peoples asses

jackson wrote:

Johnson you are a stupit sob I used a tree for 10 years as a place to hang a target to sight at least 5 guns in { it is still living} quit blowing smoke up peoples asses

Jackson, would it have harmed you in any way to do any research on Culp's Hill before lobbing obscenities at someone and accusing HIM of being the stupid one? Your situation isn't even remotely comparable to what the trees of Culp's Hill were subjected on July 2 & 3, 1863. The fighting on July 2 lasted about 3 hours; the fighting on July 3 lasted approximately six hours. Much of the ammunition was in the .58 caliber range. The damage to the trees was so spectacular that it drew visitors and photographers almost as soon as the battle ended. Many trees were completely severed by gunfire. Many of the photos are available online, including on the Library of Congress web site.

sarcasm man wrote:

So let me get this straight...the environmental wackos that fund the DNC will protest and raise holy hell when a logger wants to earn a living, or if we want to drill for oil in the middle of nowhere(because of caribou), but don't raise a peep to this! Every animal that live in this are will have to move, more than likely on the Baltimore pike where we get to kill them with our cars. And why are we spending all this money? For cosmetic reasons(oh and the history buffs). Funny until a couple years ago no one cared about trees on the battlefield, now that they took down the tower we have to make it look exactly like 1863.

Historic rehabilitation of the portion of the battlefield within park boundaries is a central element of the park's current General Management Plan which was finalized in June 1999, a full decade ago, after a lengthy, contentious, and highly publicized development process. It wasn't a result of the removal of the Tower; the removal of the Tower was part of the plan.

It would be interesting to see how the town would fare if the history buffs for whom you have such contempt stayed home, exercised our imagination, and made very sure that any money that we spent on books, etc. did not go to any business in Gettysburg. Don't worry. As amusing as it would be to see how it would impact people like you, that won't happen for two reasons:(1) we love the place too much to abandon it, and (2) the effects can't be limited to those who share your views but, unacceptably, would also hurt the many gracious, decent people who live and/or work in Gettysburg area who respect and love the history of the place as well as those who, even if they aren't particularly interested in the Civil War, treat visitors with courtesy and respect.

ah Harrisburg haven't seen you in awhile. Guess Latcher had other things for you to do. But good to see you back as the minister of propaganda for GNPS.

You do realize that the majority of the people that come to Gettysburg aren't hardcore history buffs as yourself, right? I'll be nice and say you guys make up probably 20% of the tourists we get here. The other 80% don't care about the trees there. Their still trying to figure out why the soldiers didn't duck behind the statues to avoid being shot!

sarcasm man wrote:

ah Harrisburg haven't seen you in awhile. Guess Latcher had other things for you to do. But good to see you back as the minister of propaganda for GNPS.
You do realize that the majority of the people that come to Gettysburg aren't hardcore history buffs as yourself, right? I'll be nice and say you guys make up probably 20% of the tourists we get here. The other 80% don't care about the trees there. Their still trying to figure out why the soldiers didn't duck behind the statues to avoid being shot!

Regardless of the accuracy of your figures, we hardcores definitely are nowhere close to being the majority of the visitors but we're the repeat business with standing reservations for some dates, the ones who stay multiple days again and again, the ones who make really large purchases. Look at the stores that sell Civil War art, books, and reenactor clothing and supplies. You think most hotels can charge peak rates in the middle of November? Take us out of the mix, and you'll see how much we contribute to the Gettysburg area's economy.

One thing about your post that is revealing; you've finally made it clear that it isn't just the history buffs you hold in contempt; it's everyone who visits the battlefield. Try being on a battlefield tour with newbies before landscape rehabilitation when the guide had to pass out photos to show how the land looked during the battle. I have. They were generally baffled as to why the NPS had allowed the battlefield to be so obscured. If you don't think battlefield rehabilitation makes a difference in maintaining visitation even among people who aren't Civil War buffs, try visiting a place like Atlanta where very little from the battle era survived. After a while, getting off buses to look at a plaque that tells you what happened there and look at a picture of what the place used to look like gets very old. If you want to look at old pictures, you can do that at home without spending nearly as much money.

Harrisburg you are right that's why we have expensive movie productions to recreate the battles for us so we can watch them at home and let the land be developed and malls be built, casinos go in and electronic maps guide us the way thru the battle. Not to leave out private enterprises that build towers to take us up and above to show the area. Oh did i mention that enterprise paid tax revenue to the area? How much has been lost in revenue since it came down? What was it hurting in reality? NOTHING more than any other modern structure of today (even the new VC). If they truely wanted to do it to reflect and keep it as close to the way it was back then: dig a big hole and put the hole thing in it and fill back over it! Have a rustic bullet riddled barn as an entrance where one once stood. THEN it would have shown that they were truly concerned about preserving the way it truly looked back in 1863 buildings and scenery with sight lines. i don't recall any photos of any buildings in the area that look like the current VC? It's piece meal patch work bull. I hope they once the work is done they can keep it that way, I would hate to revisit this in 10 or 15 years when the trees grow back.

Just a continuing scam by Latschar.. I wonder if he is still getting kickbacks from the logging company--which is not ONLY being paid to clear the trees,,,,BUT is also recieving a profit for those same trees at --Gladfelters Paper Company..
You know..the same Gladfelter Paper Company that just scammed Adams County Taxpayers to put a few hundred acres of STATE FOREST land --into that copprupt organization called the Adams County Land Conservacy. I say, bulldoze everything down and clear the trees. This way we can finally see just General Eisenhower reshapped the enitre Park --when it was under his command as an Army Tank Training Center.. Oh--they also blew up the ground. So stop whining..there's nothing the NPS or others can do to returnr this Disgraced land back to origionality.
BETTER YET how about cutting the DAMNED grass along Steinwehr Avenue to cut back the Tick and Flea infestation.

Germany Township Resident wrote:

Harrisburg you are right that's why we have expensive movie productions to recreate the battles for us so we can watch them at home and let the land be developed and malls be built, casinos go in and electronic maps guide us the way thru the battle. Not to leave out private enterprises that build towers to take us up and above to show the area. Oh did i mention that enterprise paid tax revenue to the area? How much has been lost in revenue since it came down? What was it hurting in reality? NOTHING more than any other modern structure of today (even the new VC). If they truely wanted to do it to reflect and keep it as close to the way it was back then: dig a big hole and put the hole thing in it and fill back over it! Have a rustic bullet riddled barn as an entrance where one once stood. THEN it would have shown that they were truly concerned about preserving the way it truly looked back in 1863 buildings and scenery with sight lines. i don't recall any photos of any buildings in the area that look like the current VC? It's piece meal patch work bull. I hope they once the work is done they can keep it that way, I would hate to revisit this in 10 or 15 years when the trees grow back.

If all or nothing are the only options you'll recognize, would you truly be prepared for what nothing would be like? The odds are that, this close to the every increasing Baltimore/DC megalopolis, it would not remain undeveloped, you'd get several thousand acres of malls, townhouse developments and McMansions. We preservationists are generally far more realistic than that in recognizing the compromises that are needed in order to protect the critical historical areas while taking into account the needs of the people who live there now and of the historic tourism that helps keep the protected areas protected.

As for the current VC, the primary reasons that it is located where it is are:(1) that it is not built on a major battle action area (finding a location where no one with either army stepped during the battle would probably required locating the VC across the Susquehanna River) and (2) it doesn't not impinge on the battlefield viewshed.

As for the wonders of the National Tower, it was an inescapable blight on the landscape. Read newspaper articles about the struggle to keep it from being built in the first place. There was remarkable unity among locals, the NPS, and the state. Unfortunately, Ottenstein was buddies with Spiro Agnew and Nixon administration political appointess shoved it down everyone's throats. The owners finally got what a federal court held the property was worth (more than the NPS wanted to pay but far less than the owners demanded) and the NPS made a whole lot of people happy by demolishing it.

Gotta put my two cents worth in. Last time I was at Culp's Hill, two years ago, you couldn't see anything and the view from the tower was worse. The trees need to be thinned. As it is now, the fighting around the Spangler/Culp's area is so hard to visualize because of the overgrowth. I remember reading that the Confederates, after capturing the initial trench line were less than 100 yards from the Baltimore Pike. I'd like to see that view. After reading all these posts, there is more going on than the tree trimming/removal. What is the real beef? Anyone???

I drove along some country roads the other day and noticed how the property owners kept the weeds and grass cut along the roads. Even the edges of many woods were cut so as to keep the shoulder of the road open. How do the Foundation and the NPS get away with letting the weeds grow up as a nuisance and a hazard to drivers (in some areas they partially block the view around the turns of the driveways)? Can anyone answer this question?

Harrisburg wrote:

<quoted text>
As for the wonders of the National Tower, it was an inescapable blight on the landscape. Read newspaper articles about the struggle to keep it from being built in the first place. There was remarkable unity among locals, the NPS, and the state. Unfortunately, Ottenstein was buddies with Spiro Agnew and Nixon administration political appointess shoved it down everyone's throats. The owners finally got what a federal court held the property was worth (more than the NPS wanted to pay but far less than the owners demanded) and the NPS made a whole lot of people happy by demolishing it.

What did Tom being buddies with Agnew and Nixon have to do with anything? He only wanted to do what any other businessman could do on private land such as that owned by Hans Enggren. As long as he could meet local zoning conditions and comply with all other regulations, what "LEGAL" reason was there to prohibit him from building the tower? Obviously, none after all the conditions were satisfied. The "remarkable unity among locals, the NPS, and the state" as you put it, were mostly the people that think everything should be as it was during the battle. I could agree with that if the whole area would still be in the same condition, but obviously, it is not! It's the old story, once you allow one person to do (build) something and set a precedent, it's hard to say no to the people that follow with their requests.
Was the tower an eyesore (blight) to some? Yes, to all the same people that I mentioned above, but to many visitors at the top of the tower, it was a very good place to get a general overview of most of the battle sites before going on a ground tour with a battlefield guide. You can't get the same perspective looking at a paper map as you can with your own eyes actually seeing where the various skirmishes took place during the battle.
Another point on "eyesores": What about all the other commercial buildings and "tall" structures such as radio station antennas, cell phone towers, etc. that weren't there during the time of the battle?

once the bell has been rung... the park service and groupies want to un-ring it at our expense... cell towers, radio towers etc.. some appear now as silos or trees so they blend better to the area. Instead of the tower how about a Sky tram or cable ride high above and show the battle that way....joking just joking

Germany Township Resident wrote:

once the bell has been rung... the park service and groupies want to un-ring it at our expense... cell towers, radio towers etc.. some appear now as silos or trees so they blend better to the area. Instead of the tower how about a Sky tram or cable ride high above and show the battle that way....joking just joking

Actually, your example of efforts to make modern structures blend into a landscape is part and parcel of the compromises that sometimes need to be made between the ideal in terms of historic preservation and the fact that this all happens in a living and vital community. The Friends had to raise a huge amount of money to bury the power lines first along Emmitsburg Road and subsequently in other areas of the park. I have a framed set of before and after pictures of the portion of Emmitsburg Road that intersects the Picketts Charge field. It was worth every penny to bury those power lines. Residents and businesses still get the electricity provided by the lines, it's actually more reliable since the lines won't get knocked out by lightning strikes and bad drivers, and the view is improved a thousand-fold.

Much of the viewshed that people love and treasure today were built on. Buildings can be removed. Landscapes can be rehabilitated, and they have been.

Harrisburg, I'm still waiting for your response to my above post.