'The War Is Not Over'

Full story: Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON - President Bush led the nation on Monday in marking the fifth anniversary of the Sept.

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chazmo

San Antonio, TX

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#232068
Jul 19, 2010
 
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
I didnt see any attempt by Bush to win the hearts and minds of the countries he invaded. To the rest of us it simply looked like punishment and vengence. The US might be number 1 in the Arms trade, but Britain, the former Soviet Union and Russia are right behind.
I know you will disagree, but i truely wish the Soviets had won that war in Afghanistan. Had the US government not been on a petty revenge mission for losing Vietnam there is just a possibility that Afghanistan would have been stabalised and not taken over by radical nuts. Even if it was a Socialist government it would have been better than what Afghanistan descended into over the 1990s.
Like France and Switzerland are trying to win the hearts and minds of radical islamists by outlawing burqas and mosque towers...

How about that Queen Beatrix and Geert Wilders?...

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/wilders-rej...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

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#232069
Jul 19, 2010
 
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell the truth!
I told you a very long time ago that General Tommy Franks and the Pentagon wanted to finish the job against al Qaeda in Afghanistan and then invade Yemen and Somalia were al Qaeda has strongholds.
The Neo-Confederate Cheney, Rummy and Dummy Bush said no.
Obama is NINE Years too late.
I'm so glad that you believe we can sustain a war on so many fronts, VDubya...

How about the other 57 Countries with known al qaeda operatives?...

What about Mexico?...

First suicide car bombing across from El Paso...

Where do you think they learned that?...

http://www.elpasotimes.com/juarez/ci_15537113

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/16/wor...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/wdmax/me...
WhiteCollarCrime

Bay Shore, NY

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#232070
Jul 19, 2010
 
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
I didnt see any attempt by Bush to win the hearts and minds of the countries he invaded. To the rest of us it simply looked like punishment and vengence. The US might be number 1 in the Arms trade, but Britain, the former Soviet Union and Russia are right behind.
I know you will disagree, but i truely wish the Soviets had won that war in Afghanistan. Had the US government not been on a petty revenge mission for losing Vietnam there is just a possibility that Afghanistan would have been stabalised and not taken over by radical nuts. Even if it was a Socialist government it would have been better than what Afghanistan descended into over the 1990s.
After 9/11/01 Imbecile Bush had most of the whole world supporting the USA against al Qaeda.

Ignorant Bush rejected the help and went into Iraq.

This alone makes Bush the worst president in all of American history.

BTW: Why did the Red Army invade Afghanistan in 1979?

Could it be the oil in the STANS and an easy route to the sea?

The Vietnam lost had nothing to do with Afghanistan 1979-1989 except that it mirrored Guerrilla Warfare.

If Russia invaded Mongolia the USA would not care.

It's all about the oil!
WhiteCollarCrime

Bay Shore, NY

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#232071
Jul 19, 2010
 
chazmo wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm so glad that you believe we can sustain a war on so many fronts, VDubya...
How about the other 57 Countries with known al qaeda operatives?...
What about Mexico?...
First suicide car bombing across from El Paso...
Where do you think they learned that?...
http://www.elpasotimes.com/juarez/ci_15537113
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/16/wor...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/wdmax/me...
The USA would have received much help if Jacka$$ Bush invaded Afghanistan and not Iraq.

Daddy Bush had most of the whole world against Saddam including many in the Muslim world.

Germany, Japan, and the Arabs paid 90% of the cost in the Gulf War and the USA taxpayers 10%.

The Son did the total opposite of the Father.

----------

Untested administration hawks clamor for war
Beware of war hawks who never served in the military.
http://tinyurl.com/yvkumd
That, in essence, was the message of retired four-star Marine Corps general Anthony Zinni, a highly decorated veteran of the Vietnam War and the White House point man on the Middle East crisis. Zinni is one of a growing number of uniformed officers, in and out of the Pentagon, urging caution on the issue of a pre-emptive strike against Iraq.

In an address recently in Florida, he warned his audience to watch out for the administration's civilian superhawks, most of whom avoided military service as best they could.
"If you ask me my opinion," said Zinni, referring to Iraq, "Gen.(Brent) Scowcroft, Gen.(Colin) Powell, Gen.(Norman) Schwarzkopf and Gen. Zinni maybe all see this the same way.
It might be interesting to wonder why all of the generals see it the same way, and all those (who) never fired a shot in anger (and) are really hellbent to go to war see it a different way. "That's usually the way it is in history," he said.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2002-09-...

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Excerpt from "Why We Didn't Remove Saddam" by George Bush [Sr.] and Brent Scowcroft, Time (2 March 1998):
While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

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#232072
Jul 19, 2010
 
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
However, you must admit, it was NOT a one state solution.
In the US, I think it was a 50 state solution.
Just think, Gaza could be a state, so could the West Bank.
One State Pakistan solution was a failure, too...

East Pakistan is now gone...

Bangladesh took it's place...

India sure seems to have come out well...

I wonder why...
WhiteCollarCrime

Bay Shore, NY

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#232073
Jul 19, 2010
 
chazmo wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm so glad that you believe we can sustain a war on so many fronts, VDubya...
How about the other 57 Countries with known al qaeda operatives?...
What about Mexico?...
First suicide car bombing across from El Paso...
Where do you think they learned that?...
http://www.elpasotimes.com/juarez/ci_15537113
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/16/wor...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/wdmax/me...
chazmo Why do you think Daddy Bush gave the green light to two of his oldest friends?

==========
James Baker: Don't go it alone with Iraq
http://tinyurl.com/9xxb8 /August 26, 2002
CRAWFORD, Texas (CNN)-- Former Secretary of State James Baker Sunday warned President Bush not to "go it alone" against Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/08/2...

Don't Attack Saddam
It would undermine our antiterrorism efforts
BY GENERAL BRENT SCOWCROFT
August 15, 2002 / http://tinyurl.com/44u2d
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/featu...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

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#232074
Jul 19, 2010
 
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
If I am wrong, how would YOU transfer $4 billion back to its rightful owner?
Drop it out of planes?
BTW, Greenspan thinks the Bush tax cuts should expire for everyone, for the new year.
I'm sure Naomi and you would agree, wholeheartedly.
One of those Giant Cheques might work...

http://www.cra-nc.org/wellsfargo_photo_galler...

Well...80 of them
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

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#232075
Jul 19, 2010
 
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
The USA would have received much help if Jacka$$ Bush invaded Afghanistan and not Iraq.
Daddy Bush had most of the whole world against Saddam including many in the Muslim world.
Germany, Japan, and the Arabs paid 90% of the cost in the Gulf War and the USA taxpayers 10%.
The Son did the total opposite of the Father.
----------
You mean like the massive amount of help in Afghanistan?...

And Pakistan?...

Iraq is history...

So is Bush...

How can you speculate on what you think could possibly be the outcome today if Bush had not ousted Saddam in 2003?...

That's like McSqwerty claiming that Afghanistan would be a wonderful place today if the Soviets had stayed...

Maybe if we had not driven Saddam and his green meanies out of Kuwait...

All the Kuwaitis would be much better off...

Speculation, VDubya...

Personally...

Fighting AlQ in Iraq was much easier than fighting them in the Afghan mountains...

Don'tcha think?...
WhiteCollarCrime

Bay Shore, NY

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#232076
Jul 19, 2010
 
chazmo wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean like the massive amount of help in Afghanistan?...
And Pakistan?...
Iraq is history...
So is Bush...
How can you speculate on what you think could possibly be the outcome today if Bush had not ousted Saddam in 2003?...
That's like McSqwerty claiming that Afghanistan would be a wonderful place today if the Soviets had stayed...
Maybe if we had not driven Saddam and his green meanies out of Kuwait...
All the Kuwaitis would be much better off...
Speculation, VDubya...
Personally...
Fighting AlQ in Iraq was much easier than fighting them in the Afghan mountains...
Don'tcha think?...
Not at all because al Qaeda all escaped Afghanistan and next on the target was Yemen and Somalia.

Bush Blew It!

==========

Escape from Tora Bora
Strategic blunders allowed thousands of fighters to flee on foot over the mountains
September 4, 2002 http://tinyurl.com/atn7v

Osama bin Laden and most of his top-ranking Arab associates were able to escape from Afghanistan last year because of a series of avoidable strategic blunders by US military commanders, well-placed sources in Kabul have told the Guardian. Of the 3,000-4,000 "foreign militants" trapped in Afghanistan last November after the collapse of the Taliban, most got away.

Several high-profile military operations to capture them - most notably last December in the Tora Bora mountains - failed because Britain and the US sent in too few troops of their own. Instead, the US commander in Afghanistan, General Tommy Franks, relied too heavily on local anti-Taliban warlords who were more interested in making money than in hunting enemies of the US.
The failure to intercept the fleeing militants marks a huge blow to the Bush administration's war on terrorism.

The failure to intercept the fleeing militants marks a huge blow to the Bush administration's war on terrorism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

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#232077
Jul 19, 2010
 
John_Schuylkill County_Pa wrote:
<quoted text>The new "Joe the Plumber" and BP plugged the leak. Somebody waited how long to get all the skimmers there? The cleanup task would have been a lesser task.
Never waste a crisis...

Waiting 'til the oil began hitting the beaches guaranteed Obama and minions another 70-90 days of press time...

I'm sure that Obama must have come up with that leak stopper...

Just look at all the brains He had working on the problem...

After all...

He DID end the recession last summer...

June 19, 2009

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/19/markets/thebu...

October 12, 2009

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/econ...

Between June and August?...

http://mostlyeconomics.wordpress.com/2010/02/...

Where TF did all the jobs go?...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationw...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

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#232078
Jul 19, 2010
 
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all because al Qaeda all escaped Afghanistan and next on the target was Yemen and Somalia.
Bush Blew It!
==========
Escape from Tora Bora
Strategic blunders allowed thousands of fighters to flee on foot over the mountains
September 4, 2002 http://tinyurl.com/atn7v
Osama bin Laden and most of his top-ranking Arab associates were able to escape from Afghanistan last year because of a series of avoidable strategic blunders by US military commanders, well-placed sources in Kabul have told the Guardian. Of the 3,000-4,000 "foreign militants" trapped in Afghanistan last November after the collapse of the Taliban, most got away.
Several high-profile military operations to capture them - most notably last December in the Tora Bora mountains - failed because Britain and the US sent in too few troops of their own. Instead, the US commander in Afghanistan, General Tommy Franks, relied too heavily on local anti-Taliban warlords who were more interested in making money than in hunting enemies of the US.
The failure to intercept the fleeing militants marks a huge blow to the Bush administration's war on terrorism.
The failure to intercept the fleeing militants marks a huge blow to the Bush administration's war on terrorism.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story...
So all those al qaeda fighters that swarmed into Iraq from Syria and Jordan came from Afghanistan?...

Why are the now suicide murdering people in Iran?...

But if you think we should be invading every nation that has an eruption of al qaeda fighters...

Who am I to argue...

I can't even understand how our recession ended over a year ago But is still going on today...

Must be my racist stupidity...:-P

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

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#232079
Jul 19, 2010
 
chazmo wrote:
<quoted text>
So all those al qaeda fighters that swarmed into Iraq from Syria and Jordan came from Afghanistan?...
Why are the now suicide murdering people in Iran?...
But if you think we should be invading every nation that has an eruption of al qaeda fighters...
Who am I to argue...
I can't even understand how our recession ended over a year ago But is still going on today...
Must be my racist stupidity...:-P
This is how things get over, or get extended, rather. They sent Hillary.

Kabul meeting to lay ground for 2014 deadline

KABUL, Afghanistan The strategy sits for now on a table in a locked-down Afghan capital: Hand over security in all 34 provinces to the government by the end of 2014 more than three years after President Barack Obama's date for the start of an American troop drawdown.

By Tuesday, it will be adopted at a one-day international conference, giving war-weary Americans and Europeans a date for when their involvement in Afghanistan may begin to come to an end. It will also give President Hamid Karzai a chance to show whether his struggling government is making progress toward running the country.

The conference comes at a time of growing anxiety in the U.S. and Europe about the course of the war concerns underscored by Taliban attacks on Monday that killed six Afghan police and two American soldiers. A major security operation virtually shut down Kabul for the conference in which some 60 nations will focus on the postwar transition.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100719/ap_on_re_...

>>>>>I hope it changes.

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

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#232081
Jul 19, 2010
 
chazmo wrote:
<quoted text>
So all those al qaeda fighters that swarmed into Iraq from Syria and Jordan came from Afghanistan?...
Why are the now suicide murdering people in Iran?...
But if you think we should be invading every nation that has an eruption of al qaeda fighters...
Who am I to argue...
I can't even understand how our recession ended over a year ago But is still going on today...
Must be my racist stupidity...:-P
While invading ONLY the correct countries, as well, certainly.

Afghanistan, apparently, wasn't correct either.

Zinni is going to have a field day, coming up, on his next lecture circuit.

Is he still a lobbyist?
John_Schuylkill County_Pa

Tamaqua, PA

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#232082
Jul 19, 2010
 
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Bin Laden is a free man. Why are we in Afghanistan? To keep him hiding in caves??????
We are in Afghanistan to actuate Joe Biden's plan. Didn't you know that. Biden said it's his plan.

Name one person that has seen him outside a cave.
John_Schuylkill County_Pa

Tamaqua, PA

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#232083
Jul 19, 2010
 
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the rest of us see a big difference between Obama and Bush, and im not just talking about intelligence and ability to structure a sentense. What we see is Obama focussing on Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the focus should have been all along without invasion of Iraq. And the invasion of two nations is too much even for you in this day and age. Had the illegal invasion of Iraq not happened you would have found yourselves better equipped, better supported and better prepared to deal with the real problem in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Not to mention dealing with your recession, the largest since the Great Depression. And dont forget you nearly fell into another Depression. I would hope it would be a long time before America votes for another Republican government.
Your news and media is extremely corporate controlled. Of course this happens in Europe too, but we often get a much clearer picture of the situation in Afghanistan and Iraq. Sorry but you folks over there are kept very quite ignorant. If this is the fault of your massive corporate media or your own fault for just not wanting to learn the truth, rejecting the truth or having no interest in what happens beyond your borders, i dont know.
Take your understanding of the Megrahi release for example and what your government is wanting. You were told about the complex structure of the Union between Scotland and England and that the British government had no authority to interfere with matters concerning Scottish law, education, health care and that the British government never has. The Scots would not release Megrahi for anyone, especially the British government and most of all BP. The hatred between Ediburgh and London runs deep. And thats just the tip of the ice berg!
You should know better than this, especially when it comes to your allies one would expect you to know just a little bit more. We dont proclaim to know everything about you here in Europe, but we know a damn sight more about you than you do about us.
Again im glad Obama has told the English poofters in London to get f*cked. But have you also noticed you have a few more friends now???
What's there to understand that i don't understand. The Pakistanis left our guys on their soil to do battle with Al-Qaeda. Bush won the "first war" and ran most of Al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan. Bush understood that the Pakistanis did not want our guys doing battle on their soil except maybe the drones. Pakistan was to handle the battle in the Northwest Territories. At least until Pakistan made a truce with the Taliban. The Taliban reconstituted itself to come back over the border to do battle with NATO.

See the Irish credit rating was downgraded. Guess I'll have a few more Irish neighbors in time. Isn't the recession global?
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth

Fraser Lake, Canada

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#232084
Jul 19, 2010
 
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
No, no, no. Im talking about the Uyghur Muslims of China that recently had to be dealth with using a firm hand.
China too recognises Israels right to exist and as i recall stood quite firmly beside America against the fanatical Islamists after 9/11. That was of course only untill Bush blew it all by illegaly invading Iraq.
So what im saying is, the Chinese are not such big fans of you guys either.
Now GJ, serious question. Why is where ever Muslims live in the world next to non Muslims there is bloodshed and violence?
And dont tell me its because you are all opressed. That wont work anymore. Your are a pest to the Russians, the West, the Chinese, the Indians and even each other if not the same denomination.
Why is this?
It is the Jews who are always being oppressed. See it any way you wish as Israel is toast regardless of how you see it.
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth

Fraser Lake, Canada

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#232085
Jul 19, 2010
 
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
No, i said you dont get to be funny now.
Poor you. Theres no way back for ya now you have completely flipped.
Cuckoo! Cuckoo!
I flipped 30 years ago. Unfortunately I still have to go to work.
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth

Fraser Lake, Canada

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#232086
Jul 19, 2010
 
John_Schuylkill County_Pa wrote:
<quoted text>What's there to understand that i don't understand. The Pakistanis left our guys on their soil to do battle with Al-Qaeda. Bush won the "first war" and ran most of Al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan. Bush understood that the Pakistanis did not want our guys doing battle on their soil except maybe the drones. Pakistan was to handle the battle in the Northwest Territories. At least until Pakistan made a truce with the Taliban. The Taliban reconstituted itself to come back over the border to do battle with NATO.
See the Irish credit rating was downgraded. Guess I'll have a few more Irish neighbors in time. Isn't the recession global?
The war has nothing to do with it. More war spending will save us.

“Liberty and Justice for ALL!”

Since: Jun 10

Bloomington, MN

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#232087
Jul 19, 2010
 
New 2012 Poll Results/New Obama approval ratings:

++++++++++

US: Generic Ballot (Gallup 7/12-18)

Gallup
7/12-18/10; 1,535 adults, 3% margin of error
Mode: Live telephone interviews

National
2010 Congress: Generic Ballot
49% Democrat, 43% Republican (chart)

++++++++++

US: 43% Democrat, 43% Republican (PPP 7/9-12)

Public Policy Polling
7/9-12/10; 667 likely voters,
3.8% margin of error
Mode: Automated phone

National
2010 Congress: Generic Ballot
43% Democrat, 43% Republican (chart)
Job Approval / Disapproval
Dems in Congress: 33 / 57
Reps in Congress: 20 / 60

++++++++++

US: National Survey (Politico 7/9-14)

Politico / Penn Schoen Berland
7/9-14/10; 1,011 adults, 3.1% margin of error
Mode: Internet

National

State of the Country
27% Right Direction, 61% Wrong Track (chart)

Favorable / Unfavorable
Barack Obama: 48 / 47 (chart)
Hillary Clinton: 49 / 45 (chart)
Sarah Palin: 39 / 53 (chart)
George W. Bush: 38 / 54
Mike Huckabee: 36 / 29 (chart)
Mitt Romney: 30 / 35 (chart)

2010 Congress: Generic Ballot
32% Democrat, 31% Republican, 9% independent

2012 President
48% Obama, 36% Palin
39% Obama, 35% Romney
39% Obama, 21% Pawlenty
39% Obama, 35% Huckabee
39% Obama, 21% Barbour

++++++++++

Economist / YouGov
7/10-13/10; 1,000 adults
Mode: Internet

National

Obama Job Approval
48% Approve, 45% Disapprove (chart)
Dems: 81 / 13 (chart)
Reps: 12 / 85 (chart)
Inds: 42 / 51 (chart)

Congressional Job Approval
12% Approve, 65% Disapprove (chart)

2010 Congress: Generic Ballot
Adults: 44% Democrat, 39% Republican
Registered voters (n=707): 46% Democrat, 42% Republican (chart)

State of the Country
29% Right Direction, 56% Wrong Track (chart)

++++++++++

US: National Survey (TIME 7/12-13) Emily Swanson | July 15, 2010

TIME / Abt-SRBI
7/12-13/10; 1,003 adults
Mode: Live telephone interviews
(Time story)

National

2010 Congress: Generic Ballot
Likely voters: 43% Democrat, 42% Republican (chart)

Obama Job Approval
49% Approve, 45% Disapprove (chart)
Foreign Policy: 52 / 41 (chart)
Economy: 44 / 53 (chart)
Afghanistan: 47 / 44

Party ID
33% Democrat, 22% Republican, 30% independent (chart)

State of the Country
39% Right Direction, 56% Wrong Track (chart)

2012 President
55% Obama, 34% Palin

++++++++++

US: National Survey (Bloomberg 7/9-12)Emily Swanson | July 15, 2010
Bloomberg
7/9-12/10; 1,004 adults, 3.1% margin of error
Mode: Live telephone interviews

National

Obama Job Approval
52% Approve, 44% Disapprove (chart)
Economy: 44 / 52 (chart)
Health care: 46 / 51 (chart)

2010 Congress: Generic Ballot
All adults: 43% Democratic candidate, 43% Republican candidate
Likely voters (n=875): 48% Republican candidate, 40% Democratic candidate (chart)

Favorable / Unfavorable
Barack Obama: 55 / 40 (chart)
Sarah Palin: 33 / 55 (chart)
Mitt Romney: 33 / 26 (chart)
Mike Huckabee: 33 / 38 (chart)
Hillary Clinton: 61 / 31 (chart)

Turning to the health care bill passed earlier this year, what is your opinion of the bill?
37% It should be repealed, 47% We should see how it works

Whom do you blame most for the spill in the Gulf?
44% BP, the oil company doing the drilling
19% Lax federal regulations and oversight
12% The danger of deepwater drilling in general
22% No one is really to blame; it was just an accident

Do you think the spill proves off-shore drilling is just too dangerous and should be banned in U.S. waters, or was this a freak accident and offshore drilling can be made safer and should not be banned?
23% Just too dangerous
73% Was a freak accident

..........
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

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#232088
Jul 19, 2010
 
chazmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Like France and Switzerland are trying to win the hearts and minds of radical islamists by outlawing burqas and mosque towers...
How about that Queen Beatrix and Geert Wilders?...
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/wilders-rej...
Bloody good idea, but then France didnt invade Iraq and sent you intelligence telling your there was no reason to do so.

Banning Burquas is very favourable to me lol

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