'The War Is Not Over'

WASHINGTON - President Bush led the nation on Monday in marking the fifth anniversary of the Sept. Full Story
chazmo

United States

#232093 Jul 20, 2010
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth wrote:
<quoted text>
I like your positive spin on Obama. Nobody wants peace enough where they are will to talk about it. I don't see their being a negotiated solution.
Oh, I don't know...

Chamberlain and stalin negotiated peace with hitler...

Betcha a lasting peace with your boyz would just as successful...
John_Schuylkill County_Pa

Tamaqua, PA

#232094 Jul 20, 2010
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth wrote:
<quoted text>
I like your positive spin on Obama. Nobody wants peace enough where they are will to talk about it. I don't see their being a negotiated solution.
Hillary negotiated a 7 billion dollar deal with Pakistan.
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232095 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
After 9/11/01 Imbecile Bush had most of the whole world supporting the USA against al Qaeda.
Ignorant Bush rejected the help and went into Iraq.
This alone makes Bush the worst president in all of American history.
BTW: Why did the Red Army invade Afghanistan in 1979?
Could it be the oil in the STANS and an easy route to the sea?
The Vietnam lost had nothing to do with Afghanistan 1979-1989 except that it mirrored Guerrilla Warfare.
If Russia invaded Mongolia the USA would not care.
It's all about the oil!
Of course he did, old enemies like Russia stood firmly with the US and even the new kids on the block the Chinese stood with America.

He was told numerous times by intelligence services in France and Britain there was not grounds or basis for a legal invasion. America had always beeen unpopular before 9/11 but 9/11 changed that and Bush blew it completely!!!
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232096 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes Bush was am imbicile granted. But i dont believe the Soviet Invasion was anything to do with oil. The Soviet Union was the largest nation on earth with Caucaus oil fields, not mention many others. Afghanistan was on their Southern borders and a friendly Afghanistan was vital to them.
The Soviets interfered and provided assistance to the Vietnamese. That is where Americas involvement in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan came in. Carters government and Regans government both later admitted it was a revenge plot for the Soviets helping humiliate them in Vietnam.
Why would Afghanistan be "ANY" threat to the second most powerful nation on earth?

It is Geopolitics plain and simple.

The Cold War started right after WWII so it goes back way before Vietnam.

Afghanistan is mostly dirt and mountains so again why would the Soviets want it?

IMO it had much to do with the OIL STANS and future pipelines and an easy route to the sea.

Example 101 Qwerty:

Remember Douglas J. Feith immediately after September 11, 2001 he recommended invading South America "Venezuela" for OIL.

THESE PEOPLE IN POWER NEVER WANT TO WASTE A CRISIS!

----------

The Shock Doctrine: Naomi Klein on the Rise of Disaster Capitalism
http://tinyurl.com/2aqdqh September 17th, 2007
Pinochet's coup in Chile. The massacre in Tiananmen Square. The collapse of the Soviet Union. September 11th, 2001. The war on Iraq. The Asian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. Award-winning investigative journalist Naomi Klein brings together all of these world-changing events in her new book, "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism." In her first national broadcast interview since the publication of "The Shock Doctrine," Klein joins us in our firehouse studio for the hour. Klein writes, "The history of the contemporary free market was written in shocks." She argues that "Some of the most infamous human rights violations of the past thirty-five years, which have tended to be viewed as sadistic acts carried out by anti-democratic regimes, were in fact either committed with the deliberate intent of terrorizing the public or actively harnessed to prepare the ground for the introduction of radical free-market reforms
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl...
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232098 Jul 20, 2010
chazmo wrote:
<quoted text>
So all those al qaeda fighters that swarmed into Iraq from Syria and Jordan came from Afghanistan?...
Why are the now suicide murdering people in Iran?...
But if you think we should be invading every nation that has an eruption of al qaeda fighters...
Who am I to argue...
I can't even understand how our recession ended over a year ago But is still going on today...
Must be my racist stupidity...:-P
You continue to believe lies and half-truths in corporate mainstream media and corporate right wing media.

----------

The Myth of an al Qaeda Takeover of Iraq
http://tinyurl.com/287t4u / January 28, 2007

Despite such scare mongering, it is highly improbable that al Qaeda could use Iraq as the kind of safe haven it enjoyed in Afghanistan. There, the organization had the protection of an entrenched, friendly government, which it will not have in Iraq. Al Qaeda also had a much larger force in Afghanistan -- an estimated 18,000 fighters. Even the U.S. government concedes that there are fewer than 2,000 al Qaeda fighters in Iraq, and the Iraq Study Group put the figure at only 1,300.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php...

----------

The Iraq Study Group Report
James A. Baker, III, and Lee H. Hamilton, Co-Chairs
Lawrence S. Eagleburger, Vernon E. Jordan, Jr., Edwin Meese III,
Sandra Day O’Connor, Leon E. Panetta, William J. Perry, Charles S. Robb,
Alan K. Simpson
http://www.c-span.org/pdf/iraq_study_group_re...
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232099 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
While invading ONLY the correct countries, as well, certainly.
Afghanistan, apparently, wasn't correct either.
Zinni is going to have a field day, coming up, on his next lecture circuit.
Is he still a lobbyist?
You must be a Kobe Bryant fan?

Jordan is still better IMO!

Sayonara
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth

Prince George, Canada

#232100 Jul 20, 2010
John_Schuylkill County_Pa wrote:
<quoted text>Hillary negotiated a 7 billion dollar deal with Pakistan.
I like everything that drives up the cost of this war for America. That will by the loyalty of the Government but the people of the region are still Muslim Brothers. That money will help protect the opium crop. Thank you.
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth

Prince George, Canada

#232101 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would Afghanistan be "ANY" threat to the second most powerful nation on earth?
It is Geopolitics plain and simple.
The Cold War started right after WWII so it goes back way before Vietnam.
Afghanistan is mostly dirt and mountains so again why would the Soviets want it?
IMO it had much to do with the OIL STANS and future pipelines and an easy route to the sea.
Example 101 Qwerty:
Remember Douglas J. Feith immediately after September 11, 2001 he recommended invading South America "Venezuela" for OIL.
THESE PEOPLE IN POWER NEVER WANT TO WASTE A CRISIS!
----------
The Shock Doctrine: Naomi Klein on the Rise of Disaster Capitalism
http://tinyurl.com/2aqdqh September 17th, 2007
Pinochet's coup in Chile. The massacre in Tiananmen Square. The collapse of the Soviet Union. September 11th, 2001. The war on Iraq. The Asian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. Award-winning investigative journalist Naomi Klein brings together all of these world-changing events in her new book, "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism." In her first national broadcast interview since the publication of "The Shock Doctrine," Klein joins us in our firehouse studio for the hour. Klein writes, "The history of the contemporary free market was written in shocks." She argues that "Some of the most infamous human rights violations of the past thirty-five years, which have tended to be viewed as sadistic acts carried out by anti-democratic regimes, were in fact either committed with the deliberate intent of terrorizing the public or actively harnessed to prepare the ground for the introduction of radical free-market reforms
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl...
Maybe Americas fanatical support of Israel has something to do with it? Visit Israel and see your tax dollars at work.
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232102 Jul 20, 2010
John_Schuylkill County_Pa wrote:
<quoted text>What's there to understand that i don't understand. The Pakistanis left our guys on their soil to do battle with Al-Qaeda. Bush won the "first war" and ran most of Al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan. Bush understood that the Pakistanis did not want our guys doing battle on their soil except maybe the drones. Pakistan was to handle the battle in the Northwest Territories. At least until Pakistan made a truce with the Taliban. The Taliban reconstituted itself to come back over the border to do battle with NATO.
See the Irish credit rating was downgraded. Guess I'll have a few more Irish neighbors in time. Isn't the recession global?
Most of Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan? Nooo, he ran the Taliban and Al Qaeda into hiding and guerilla warfare. Around the Pakistan border they have many allies and are protected and living under Taliban law. People are still being lashed, behheaded and Al Qaeda numbers have swollen with cells not just in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but all over the world. Now, just a guess, but had you not invaded Iraq and wasted so much resources and time turning your back on the real problem this might not have happened.

Yes our credit rating was downgraded thanks to a bunch of sh*ts in New York that nearly brought down the Western banking system.

Thanks for that ;)

Anyway Ireland will survive, her credit rating will rise again and all will be well once this recession is over. Hopefully! Dont count on my people seeking immigration to the States lol Not gonna happen.
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth

Prince George, Canada

#232103 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
You continue to believe lies and half-truths in corporate mainstream media and corporate right wing media.
----------
The Myth of an al Qaeda Takeover of Iraq
http://tinyurl.com/287t4u / January 28, 2007
Despite such scare mongering, it is highly improbable that al Qaeda could use Iraq as the kind of safe haven it enjoyed in Afghanistan. There, the organization had the protection of an entrenched, friendly government, which it will not have in Iraq. Al Qaeda also had a much larger force in Afghanistan -- an estimated 18,000 fighters. Even the U.S. government concedes that there are fewer than 2,000 al Qaeda fighters in Iraq, and the Iraq Study Group put the figure at only 1,300.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php...
----------
The Iraq Study Group Report
James A. Baker, III, and Lee H. Hamilton, Co-Chairs
Lawrence S. Eagleburger, Vernon E. Jordan, Jr., Edwin Meese III,
Sandra Day O’Connor, Leon E. Panetta, William J. Perry, Charles S. Robb,
Alan K. Simpson
http://www.c-span.org/pdf/iraq_study_group_re...
Yu've got them Al Qaeda guys out numbered a 100 : 1 at a cost of only 1 million per troop / year. I like the economics of this.
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232104 Jul 20, 2010
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth wrote:
<quoted text>It is the Jews who are always being oppressed. See it any way you wish as Israel is toast regardless of how you see it.
Fantasist.

Look at the situation ya nut. The Palestineans are "toast"

Again and again, you dont deserve any sympathy with an attitude like that. Given you live in Canada that is another country which recognises Israel you are a hypocrit, a coward and someone who really should be preaching this sh*t behind bars.

Shalom
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232105 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would Afghanistan be "ANY" threat to the second most powerful nation on earth?
It is Geopolitics plain and simple.
The Cold War started right after WWII so it goes back way before Vietnam.
Afghanistan is mostly dirt and mountains so again why would the Soviets want it?
IMO it had much to do with the OIL STANS and future pipelines and an easy route to the sea.
Example 101 Qwerty:
Remember Douglas J. Feith immediately after September 11, 2001 he recommended invading South America "Venezuela" for OIL.
THESE PEOPLE IN POWER NEVER WANT TO WASTE A CRISIS!
----------
The Shock Doctrine: Naomi Klein on the Rise of Disaster Capitalism
http://tinyurl.com/2aqdqh September 17th, 2007
Pinochet's coup in Chile. The massacre in Tiananmen Square. The collapse of the Soviet Union. September 11th, 2001. The war on Iraq. The Asian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. Award-winning investigative journalist Naomi Klein brings together all of these world-changing events in her new book, "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism." In her first national broadcast interview since the publication of "The Shock Doctrine," Klein joins us in our firehouse studio for the hour. Klein writes, "The history of the contemporary free market was written in shocks." She argues that "Some of the most infamous human rights violations of the past thirty-five years, which have tended to be viewed as sadistic acts carried out by anti-democratic regimes, were in fact either committed with the deliberate intent of terrorizing the public or actively harnessed to prepare the ground for the introduction of radical free-market reforms
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl...
Afghanistan wasnt a threat to the Soviet Union by any measure, but the Soviets wanted by their own admission Socialist governments along their own borders, and they were called upon by the new self founded Afghan Socialist government for assistance. So Afghanistan invited them but things went wrong along the way. The Afghan government was not quite Socialist enough, the Spetsnaz stormed the government building and even assisinated the Afghan President. This is because they feared he would become friendly to Western interests in the gas and oil.

But again i do disagree about the oil and gas. The Soviet Union was the largest nation on earth and had more oil and gas across all member States than Afghanistan. Afghanistans oil and gas reserves were nothing compared to what the Soviet Union had. But i do believe again the war in part was a bid to prevent the West from taking advantage of Afghan oil and gas especially as Afghanistan was on the Soviet Unions southern borders. It might have been about geo politics, but i believe only to stop the West from gainning any benefit from what Afghanistan had to offer.

Notice later on priot to 9/11 the Taliban were recognised as the official government of Afghanistan by the US, and prior to 9/11 deals over oil and gas pipe lines were being made between the US government and the Taliban government???

Sorry, but i cant see why the Soviets would have any interest Afghan oil considering their own vast reserves. And even today the Russian Federation is not running out and in no need to import foreign oil and gas. Russia too has the 6th strongest economy right now.
Tea Partiers Hate Blacks

Japan

#232106 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, this is the best place I know to start. How to books.
How to start your car.
How to pay your mortgage. How to save money. How to open a checking account. How to go to the store. How to microwave a TV dinner. How to walk down the stairs.
How to put on your socks (with government help).
http://money.cnn.com/video/pf/2010/07/06/pf_h...
Back to "how to" books. Is there a "how to" book on "how to break the law in one's given occupation or profession just enough to gain a competitive advantage over one's competitors but not enough to get arrested and sent to prison?" It seems that this is the one book that needs to be written, because in my experience the true secret to success in America (besides choosing the right parents) is to gain competitive advantage by "cutting corners" or by "cheating a little" or by "breaking the law and not getting caught."

How about a "how to" book on "how to start the worldwide communist revolution in your spare time?"

How about "how to become the father (or mother) of a new nation, just like George Washington?"

Perhaps best would be "how to identify an economic niche early and exploit it." This is perhaps the best and only "honest" way to become rich in a capitalist society without either choosing rich parents or by cheating.

Those economic niches are rare things. Not enough to go around. Do you say "tough luck" to those not fortunate enough to find one in their lifetime?

I want to eliminate the "tough luck" in life, for others as well as for myself. Do you find that you revel in the "tough luck" meted out to others?

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

#232107 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes Bush was am imbicile granted. But i dont believe the Soviet Invasion was anything to do with oil. The Soviet Union was the largest nation on earth with Caucaus oil fields, not mention many others. Afghanistan was on their Southern borders and a friendly Afghanistan was vital to them.
The Soviets interfered and provided assistance to the Vietnamese. That is where Americas involvement in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan came in. Carters government and Regans government both later admitted it was a revenge plot for the Soviets helping humiliate them in Vietnam.
Thanks for correcting VDubya's 15% random truths.
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232108 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
After 9/11/01 Imbecile Bush had most of the whole world supporting the USA against al Qaeda.
Ignorant Bush rejected the help and went into Iraq.
This alone makes Bush the worst president in all of American history.
BTW: Why did the Red Army invade Afghanistan in 1979?
Could it be the oil in the STANS and an easy route to the sea?
The Vietnam lost had nothing to do with Afghanistan 1979-1989 except that it mirrored Guerrilla Warfare.
If Russia invaded Mongolia the USA would not care.
It's all about the oil!
Also, watch this documentary. I know it doesnt provide every detail on the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan but it certainly shows what the Soviets wanted to accomplish. And you have to admit it was alot better than the hell that the Carter and Regan Admins let Afghanistan descend into just for nothing more than "revenge" and dealing blows to their rivals. Yes oil and gas played a part, but i still argue these were larger issues for the West.

Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232110 Jul 20, 2010
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth wrote:
<quoted text>Yu've got them Al Qaeda guys out numbered a 100 : 1 at a cost of only 1 million per troop / year. I like the economics of this.
Also GJ, when Western forces do call it a day in Afghanistan and leave do you know what will happen???

Civil War again.

Afghan Muslims willing be killing Afghan Muslims in unimaginable numbers. Al Qaeda (your fav terrorist team) will be so engaged in this that they will also lose most of their people in a bloody feud that will continue for years and years and years. So while America continues economic recovery Al Qaeda will be reduced to nothing with the inability to help anyone, not the Palestineans (not that they ever did) and certainly not themselves.

Maybe if Muslims stopped killing each other - themselves, then you might get somewhere against Israel and the West. But you are responsible for the majority of your own suffering.

Israel will sit happy for decades to come watching you kill each other.

So well done

Shalom.

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

#232111 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would Afghanistan be "ANY" threat to the second most powerful nation on earth?
It is Geopolitics plain and simple.
The Cold War started right after WWII so it goes back way before Vietnam.
Afghanistan is mostly dirt and mountains so again why would the Soviets want it?
IMO it had much to do with the OIL STANS and future pipelines and an easy route to the sea.
Example 101 Qwerty:
Remember Douglas J. Feith immediately after September 11, 2001 he recommended invading South America "Venezuela" for OIL.
THESE PEOPLE IN POWER NEVER WANT TO WASTE A CRISIS!
----------
The Shock Doctrine: Naomi Klein on the Rise of Disaster Capitalism
http://tinyurl.com/2aqdqh September 17th, 2007
Pinochet's coup in Chile. The massacre in Tiananmen Square. The collapse of the Soviet Union. September 11th, 2001. The war on Iraq. The Asian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. Award-winning investigative journalist Naomi Klein brings together all of these world-changing events in her new book, "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism." In her first national broadcast interview since the publication of "The Shock Doctrine," Klein joins us in our firehouse studio for the hour. Klein writes, "The history of the contemporary free market was written in shocks." She argues that "Some of the most infamous human rights violations of the past thirty-five years, which have tended to be viewed as sadistic acts carried out by anti-democratic regimes, were in fact either committed with the deliberate intent of terrorizing the public or actively harnessed to prepare the ground for the introduction of radical free-market reforms
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl...
Is it geo-politics or oil, or....? Can you have it both, or all ways?

You must be making your head spin with all this flipping around.

The Great Game preceeds all your recent history review, BTW.

In terms of Afghanistan, again, the TAP pipeline has never been built, and never will be, twenty years later.

But even the Soviets had done mineral analysis, VDubya.

Now it was I who indicated the Soviets wanted a warm water port.

Too bad they didn't get Karachi when they had the chance.

The area would be more "stable".




WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232112 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Afghanistan wasnt a threat to the Soviet Union by any measure, but the Soviets wanted by their own admission Socialist governments along their own borders, and they were called upon by the new self founded Afghan Socialist government for assistance. So Afghanistan invited them but things went wrong along the way. The Afghan government was not quite Socialist enough, the Spetsnaz stormed the government building and even assisinated the Afghan President. This is because they feared he would become friendly to Western interests in the gas and oil.
But again i do disagree about the oil and gas. The Soviet Union was the largest nation on earth and had more oil and gas across all member States than Afghanistan. Afghanistans oil and gas reserves were nothing compared to what the Soviet Union had. But i do believe again the war in part was a bid to prevent the West from taking advantage of Afghan oil and gas especially as Afghanistan was on the Soviet Unions southern borders. It might have been about geo politics, but i believe only to stop the West from gainning any benefit from what Afghanistan had to offer.
Notice later on priot to 9/11 the Taliban were recognised as the official government of Afghanistan by the US, and prior to 9/11 deals over oil and gas pipe lines were being made between the US government and the Taliban government???
Sorry, but i cant see why the Soviets would have any interest Afghan oil considering their own vast reserves. And even today the Russian Federation is not running out and in no need to import foreign oil and gas. Russia too has the 6th strongest economy right now.
The USA always deals with despots and cut-throats as long as they can make money. Many in the US thought they can work with the Taliban before September 11, 2001.

This upset al Qaeda and Usama bin Laden because he does not believe any infidels should be on Muslim lands.

I still do not believe the Soviets were invited into Afghanistan.

That is an old trick for propaganda purposes.

It looks like the Cold War never left even after Gorbachev.

Remember Qwerty "It is the perception that counts"!

lol
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232113 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, watch this documentary. I know it doesnt provide every detail on the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan but it certainly shows what the Soviets wanted to accomplish. And you have to admit it was alot better than the hell that the Carter and Regan Admins let Afghanistan descend into just for nothing more than "revenge" and dealing blows to their rivals. Yes oil and gas played a part, but i still argue these were larger issues for the West.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =w8Vmx9Pg5JsXX
I'm watching it now.

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

#232114 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
You must be a Kobe Bryant fan?
Jordan is still better IMO!
Sayonara
Celtics, moreso, but I have to respect him.

Too bad the Lakers rely on him so much.

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