'The War Is Not Over'

WASHINGTON - President Bush led the nation on Monday in marking the fifth anniversary of the Sept. Full Story
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232108 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
After 9/11/01 Imbecile Bush had most of the whole world supporting the USA against al Qaeda.
Ignorant Bush rejected the help and went into Iraq.
This alone makes Bush the worst president in all of American history.
BTW: Why did the Red Army invade Afghanistan in 1979?
Could it be the oil in the STANS and an easy route to the sea?
The Vietnam lost had nothing to do with Afghanistan 1979-1989 except that it mirrored Guerrilla Warfare.
If Russia invaded Mongolia the USA would not care.
It's all about the oil!
Also, watch this documentary. I know it doesnt provide every detail on the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan but it certainly shows what the Soviets wanted to accomplish. And you have to admit it was alot better than the hell that the Carter and Regan Admins let Afghanistan descend into just for nothing more than "revenge" and dealing blows to their rivals. Yes oil and gas played a part, but i still argue these were larger issues for the West.

Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232110 Jul 20, 2010
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth wrote:
<quoted text>Yu've got them Al Qaeda guys out numbered a 100 : 1 at a cost of only 1 million per troop / year. I like the economics of this.
Also GJ, when Western forces do call it a day in Afghanistan and leave do you know what will happen???

Civil War again.

Afghan Muslims willing be killing Afghan Muslims in unimaginable numbers. Al Qaeda (your fav terrorist team) will be so engaged in this that they will also lose most of their people in a bloody feud that will continue for years and years and years. So while America continues economic recovery Al Qaeda will be reduced to nothing with the inability to help anyone, not the Palestineans (not that they ever did) and certainly not themselves.

Maybe if Muslims stopped killing each other - themselves, then you might get somewhere against Israel and the West. But you are responsible for the majority of your own suffering.

Israel will sit happy for decades to come watching you kill each other.

So well done

Shalom.

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

#232111 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would Afghanistan be "ANY" threat to the second most powerful nation on earth?
It is Geopolitics plain and simple.
The Cold War started right after WWII so it goes back way before Vietnam.
Afghanistan is mostly dirt and mountains so again why would the Soviets want it?
IMO it had much to do with the OIL STANS and future pipelines and an easy route to the sea.
Example 101 Qwerty:
Remember Douglas J. Feith immediately after September 11, 2001 he recommended invading South America "Venezuela" for OIL.
THESE PEOPLE IN POWER NEVER WANT TO WASTE A CRISIS!
----------
The Shock Doctrine: Naomi Klein on the Rise of Disaster Capitalism
http://tinyurl.com/2aqdqh September 17th, 2007
Pinochet's coup in Chile. The massacre in Tiananmen Square. The collapse of the Soviet Union. September 11th, 2001. The war on Iraq. The Asian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. Award-winning investigative journalist Naomi Klein brings together all of these world-changing events in her new book, "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism." In her first national broadcast interview since the publication of "The Shock Doctrine," Klein joins us in our firehouse studio for the hour. Klein writes, "The history of the contemporary free market was written in shocks." She argues that "Some of the most infamous human rights violations of the past thirty-five years, which have tended to be viewed as sadistic acts carried out by anti-democratic regimes, were in fact either committed with the deliberate intent of terrorizing the public or actively harnessed to prepare the ground for the introduction of radical free-market reforms
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl...
Is it geo-politics or oil, or....? Can you have it both, or all ways?

You must be making your head spin with all this flipping around.

The Great Game preceeds all your recent history review, BTW.

In terms of Afghanistan, again, the TAP pipeline has never been built, and never will be, twenty years later.

But even the Soviets had done mineral analysis, VDubya.

Now it was I who indicated the Soviets wanted a warm water port.

Too bad they didn't get Karachi when they had the chance.

The area would be more "stable".




WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232112 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Afghanistan wasnt a threat to the Soviet Union by any measure, but the Soviets wanted by their own admission Socialist governments along their own borders, and they were called upon by the new self founded Afghan Socialist government for assistance. So Afghanistan invited them but things went wrong along the way. The Afghan government was not quite Socialist enough, the Spetsnaz stormed the government building and even assisinated the Afghan President. This is because they feared he would become friendly to Western interests in the gas and oil.
But again i do disagree about the oil and gas. The Soviet Union was the largest nation on earth and had more oil and gas across all member States than Afghanistan. Afghanistans oil and gas reserves were nothing compared to what the Soviet Union had. But i do believe again the war in part was a bid to prevent the West from taking advantage of Afghan oil and gas especially as Afghanistan was on the Soviet Unions southern borders. It might have been about geo politics, but i believe only to stop the West from gainning any benefit from what Afghanistan had to offer.
Notice later on priot to 9/11 the Taliban were recognised as the official government of Afghanistan by the US, and prior to 9/11 deals over oil and gas pipe lines were being made between the US government and the Taliban government???
Sorry, but i cant see why the Soviets would have any interest Afghan oil considering their own vast reserves. And even today the Russian Federation is not running out and in no need to import foreign oil and gas. Russia too has the 6th strongest economy right now.
The USA always deals with despots and cut-throats as long as they can make money. Many in the US thought they can work with the Taliban before September 11, 2001.

This upset al Qaeda and Usama bin Laden because he does not believe any infidels should be on Muslim lands.

I still do not believe the Soviets were invited into Afghanistan.

That is an old trick for propaganda purposes.

It looks like the Cold War never left even after Gorbachev.

Remember Qwerty "It is the perception that counts"!

lol
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232113 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, watch this documentary. I know it doesnt provide every detail on the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan but it certainly shows what the Soviets wanted to accomplish. And you have to admit it was alot better than the hell that the Carter and Regan Admins let Afghanistan descend into just for nothing more than "revenge" and dealing blows to their rivals. Yes oil and gas played a part, but i still argue these were larger issues for the West.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =w8Vmx9Pg5JsXX
I'm watching it now.

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

#232114 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
You must be a Kobe Bryant fan?
Jordan is still better IMO!
Sayonara
Celtics, moreso, but I have to respect him.

Too bad the Lakers rely on him so much.

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

#232115 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan? Nooo, he ran the Taliban and Al Qaeda into hiding and guerilla warfare. Around the Pakistan border they have many allies and are protected and living under Taliban law. People are still being lashed, behheaded and Al Qaeda numbers have swollen with cells not just in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but all over the world. Now, just a guess, but had you not invaded Iraq and wasted so much resources and time turning your back on the real problem this might not have happened.
Yes our credit rating was downgraded thanks to a bunch of sh*ts in New York that nearly brought down the Western banking system.
Thanks for that ;)
Anyway Ireland will survive, her credit rating will rise again and all will be well once this recession is over. Hopefully! Dont count on my people seeking immigration to the States lol Not gonna happen.
Yes, thank those Democrats who control Wall Street, and who were just given the green light to get those big bonuses.

After all, they deserved them, according to the Prez, no?
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232116 Jul 20, 2010
John_Schuylkill County_Pa wrote:
<quoted text>We are in Afghanistan to actuate Joe Biden's plan. Didn't you know that. Biden said it's his plan.
Name one person that has seen him outside a cave.
Cartman

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlla/poli_sc...
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232117 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, watch this documentary. I know it doesnt provide every detail on the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan but it certainly shows what the Soviets wanted to accomplish. And you have to admit it was alot better than the hell that the Carter and Regan Admins let Afghanistan descend into just for nothing more than "revenge" and dealing blows to their rivals. Yes oil and gas played a part, but i still argue these were larger issues for the West.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =w8Vmx9Pg5JsXX
Thanks for the data.

When a country goes to war there is usually many underlining reasons for it and not made known to the public.

Why hasn't the USSR or USA invaded Cuba?

Is it probable that there is no oil there?

Why did the Soviets recently invade Georgia?

Is it probable that there is oil there?

----------

Iraq, 1917
http://tinyurl.com/raud8

They came as liberators but were met by fierce resistance outside Baghdad. Humiliating treatment of prisoners and heavy-handed action in Najaf and Fallujah further alienated the local population. A planned handover of power proved unworkable. Britain's 1917 occupation of Iraq holds uncanny parallels with today - and if we want to know what will happen there next, we need only turn to our history books...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232118 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it geo-politics or oil, or....? Can you have it both, or all ways?
You must be making your head spin with all this flipping around.
The Great Game preceeds all your recent history review, BTW.
In terms of Afghanistan, again, the TAP pipeline has never been built, and never will be, twenty years later.
But even the Soviets had done mineral analysis, VDubya.
Now it was I who indicated the Soviets wanted a warm water port.
Too bad they didn't get Karachi when they had the chance.
The area would be more "stable".
I think your head spins because you cannot recognize fact from fiction.

Prediction: Obama will not leave Iraq and Afghanistan and neither will the next president.
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232119 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, thank those Democrats who control Wall Street, and who were just given the green light to get those big bonuses.
After all, they deserved them, according to the Prez, no?
There might be some Democrats who run Wall Street but ZERO liberals.

There is a difference.
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232120 Jul 20, 2010
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe Americas fanatical support of Israel has something to do with it? Visit Israel and see your tax dollars at work.
Whoever visits Jerusalem always can feel the presence of peace in that city.

Same is true of Israel.

It is the land of milk and honey.
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232121 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
The USA always deals with despots and cut-throats as long as they can make money. Many in the US thought they can work with the Taliban before September 11, 2001.
This upset al Qaeda and Usama bin Laden because he does not believe any infidels should be on Muslim lands.
I still do not believe the Soviets were invited into Afghanistan.
That is an old trick for propaganda purposes.
It looks like the Cold War never left even after Gorbachev.
Remember Qwerty "It is the perception that counts"!
lol
Well your making good points, but from the evidence i have seen the Soviets were asked to intervene to help install a Socialist government. Again you might be right, but nothing i have ever seen, heard or read points to an aggressive invasion. If it was, why did the Soviets send government advisors to Afghanistan before sending in the military???

The curious thing about Osama Bin Laden is that he was happy enough to have Western infidenls in Afghanistan during the war. Osama Bin Laden is not the authority on Islam it has to be said and their is now law or rule say peoples of other religions should be banned from Islamic countries.

And another curious thing is that after the invasion of Afghanistan by the West, constuction on the gas pipelines restarted almot straight away.
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232122 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, thank those Democrats who control Wall Street, and who were just given the green light to get those big bonuses.
After all, they deserved them, according to the Prez, no?
Explain
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232123 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for correcting VDubya's 15% random truths.
http://www.topix.com/forum/us/TBBSIQJBD6CFEED...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232124 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Bloody good idea, but then France didnt invade Iraq and sent you intelligence telling your there was no reason to do so.
Banning Burquas is very favourable to me lol
Hey, McSqwerty...is this you?

http://photos.igougo.com/images/p249795-Dubli...

Thank God France wasn't involved in the oil for food scandal...

Else...

Someone could say they became complicit in any outcome...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232125 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
There might be some Democrats who run Wall Street but ZERO liberals.
There is a difference.
Liberals support capitalism...

Therefore...

You are INcorrect...

Or am I thinking REAL Liberals...

As in classic liberals...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232126 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
But you are for BIG, BIG, government. Do YOU need protection?
Oh no...

That makes VDubya NON liberal...

Shock-a-mundo
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232127 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes i know Saddam had zero suicide bombings and zero Al Qaeda. But as for now after the war if bribes work for making insurgents stab each other in the back and hand their commrades over to the West then i say if it works, it works!
There is no question or doubt that the war was illegal. The UN Charter which all members of the UN swear to uphold was broken. Containment of Saddam was far more effective. And as some analysts say, countries like Iraq often need a hard b*stard of a Dictator to keep the place under control. I have no delusions about what Saddam was and was not. I know he gassed the Kurds, people who are hated both along the Iraq and Turkish border. Back then however Saddam was a pal of ours. That is one reason i will not accept the gassing of Kurds as one justification to call him a monster now but not back then when we tried to help him win a war against Iran.
Iraqs security is largely maintained by private security firms now. Thats why Western civilians and soldiers have accidentally been killed countless times. Iraq is not a victory, its a fortress and the reason it was more successful shall we say than Afghanistan is because it had some stability before the war. The people are used to being kept under an iron fist.
But Al Qaeda will be in Iraq for the rest of our life time probably. Any opportunity to bomb a crowded market or Western forces will be taken. It happens every few weeks and a large scale one happens every few months.
Iran wanted Iraq to become an Islamic Republic, while Iraq being a secular country refused. So as for Saddam keeping up the pretense that he did have WMD, i can understand this. Especially since Iraq came off second best in the Iran/Iraq War.
The Middle East is one of the last places you want to be destabalised. Bush accomplished this magnificently. And thanks to us many of those countries do have guns, bombs, planes and tanks we would rather they didnt.
Zero suicide murders under Saddam...

Wonder why?...

Could be that tree chipper/shredder that folks got dropped in feet first...
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232128 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Well your making good points, but from the evidence i have seen the Soviets were asked to intervene to help install a Socialist government. Again you might be right, but nothing i have ever seen, heard or read points to an aggressive invasion. If it was, why did the Soviets send government advisors to Afghanistan before sending in the military???
The curious thing about Osama Bin Laden is that he was happy enough to have Western infidenls in Afghanistan during the war. Osama Bin Laden is not the authority on Islam it has to be said and their is now law or rule say peoples of other religions should be banned from Islamic countries.
And another curious thing is that after the invasion of Afghanistan by the West, constuction on the gas pipelines restarted almot straight away.
Yes Usama bin Laden distorts Islam and unfortunately millions agree with him.

Why would Afghanistan want an Atheist communist/socialist government from Russia?

Many US military advisers were also sent to Vietnam and Korea before those wars.

On one of your own videos a Russian agent said that they never seen any Americans in Afghanistan so the support was only weaponry not personnel.

Pipelines for gas and oil are being built as well as Mega Military Installations peppered throughout Iraq and Afghanistan.

But naturally it is only speculation on my part.

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