'The War Is Not Over'

WASHINGTON - President Bush led the nation on Monday in marking the fifth anniversary of the Sept. Full Story
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232113 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, watch this documentary. I know it doesnt provide every detail on the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan but it certainly shows what the Soviets wanted to accomplish. And you have to admit it was alot better than the hell that the Carter and Regan Admins let Afghanistan descend into just for nothing more than "revenge" and dealing blows to their rivals. Yes oil and gas played a part, but i still argue these were larger issues for the West.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =w8Vmx9Pg5JsXX
I'm watching it now.

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

#232114 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
You must be a Kobe Bryant fan?
Jordan is still better IMO!
Sayonara
Celtics, moreso, but I have to respect him.

Too bad the Lakers rely on him so much.

“French Cocoa Party”

Since: Jan 08

Keynesian Fields

#232115 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan? Nooo, he ran the Taliban and Al Qaeda into hiding and guerilla warfare. Around the Pakistan border they have many allies and are protected and living under Taliban law. People are still being lashed, behheaded and Al Qaeda numbers have swollen with cells not just in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but all over the world. Now, just a guess, but had you not invaded Iraq and wasted so much resources and time turning your back on the real problem this might not have happened.
Yes our credit rating was downgraded thanks to a bunch of sh*ts in New York that nearly brought down the Western banking system.
Thanks for that ;)
Anyway Ireland will survive, her credit rating will rise again and all will be well once this recession is over. Hopefully! Dont count on my people seeking immigration to the States lol Not gonna happen.
Yes, thank those Democrats who control Wall Street, and who were just given the green light to get those big bonuses.

After all, they deserved them, according to the Prez, no?
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232116 Jul 20, 2010
John_Schuylkill County_Pa wrote:
<quoted text>We are in Afghanistan to actuate Joe Biden's plan. Didn't you know that. Biden said it's his plan.
Name one person that has seen him outside a cave.
Cartman

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlla/poli_sc...
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232117 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, watch this documentary. I know it doesnt provide every detail on the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan but it certainly shows what the Soviets wanted to accomplish. And you have to admit it was alot better than the hell that the Carter and Regan Admins let Afghanistan descend into just for nothing more than "revenge" and dealing blows to their rivals. Yes oil and gas played a part, but i still argue these were larger issues for the West.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =w8Vmx9Pg5JsXX
Thanks for the data.

When a country goes to war there is usually many underlining reasons for it and not made known to the public.

Why hasn't the USSR or USA invaded Cuba?

Is it probable that there is no oil there?

Why did the Soviets recently invade Georgia?

Is it probable that there is oil there?

----------

Iraq, 1917
http://tinyurl.com/raud8

They came as liberators but were met by fierce resistance outside Baghdad. Humiliating treatment of prisoners and heavy-handed action in Najaf and Fallujah further alienated the local population. A planned handover of power proved unworkable. Britain's 1917 occupation of Iraq holds uncanny parallels with today - and if we want to know what will happen there next, we need only turn to our history books...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232118 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it geo-politics or oil, or....? Can you have it both, or all ways?
You must be making your head spin with all this flipping around.
The Great Game preceeds all your recent history review, BTW.
In terms of Afghanistan, again, the TAP pipeline has never been built, and never will be, twenty years later.
But even the Soviets had done mineral analysis, VDubya.
Now it was I who indicated the Soviets wanted a warm water port.
Too bad they didn't get Karachi when they had the chance.
The area would be more "stable".
I think your head spins because you cannot recognize fact from fiction.

Prediction: Obama will not leave Iraq and Afghanistan and neither will the next president.
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232119 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, thank those Democrats who control Wall Street, and who were just given the green light to get those big bonuses.
After all, they deserved them, according to the Prez, no?
There might be some Democrats who run Wall Street but ZERO liberals.

There is a difference.
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232120 Jul 20, 2010
GJ Brain Damaged at Birth wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe Americas fanatical support of Israel has something to do with it? Visit Israel and see your tax dollars at work.
Whoever visits Jerusalem always can feel the presence of peace in that city.

Same is true of Israel.

It is the land of milk and honey.
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232121 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
The USA always deals with despots and cut-throats as long as they can make money. Many in the US thought they can work with the Taliban before September 11, 2001.
This upset al Qaeda and Usama bin Laden because he does not believe any infidels should be on Muslim lands.
I still do not believe the Soviets were invited into Afghanistan.
That is an old trick for propaganda purposes.
It looks like the Cold War never left even after Gorbachev.
Remember Qwerty "It is the perception that counts"!
lol
Well your making good points, but from the evidence i have seen the Soviets were asked to intervene to help install a Socialist government. Again you might be right, but nothing i have ever seen, heard or read points to an aggressive invasion. If it was, why did the Soviets send government advisors to Afghanistan before sending in the military???

The curious thing about Osama Bin Laden is that he was happy enough to have Western infidenls in Afghanistan during the war. Osama Bin Laden is not the authority on Islam it has to be said and their is now law or rule say peoples of other religions should be banned from Islamic countries.

And another curious thing is that after the invasion of Afghanistan by the West, constuction on the gas pipelines restarted almot straight away.
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232122 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, thank those Democrats who control Wall Street, and who were just given the green light to get those big bonuses.
After all, they deserved them, according to the Prez, no?
Explain
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232123 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for correcting VDubya's 15% random truths.
http://www.topix.com/forum/us/TBBSIQJBD6CFEED...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232124 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Bloody good idea, but then France didnt invade Iraq and sent you intelligence telling your there was no reason to do so.
Banning Burquas is very favourable to me lol
Hey, McSqwerty...is this you?

http://photos.igougo.com/images/p249795-Dubli...

Thank God France wasn't involved in the oil for food scandal...

Else...

Someone could say they became complicit in any outcome...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232125 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
There might be some Democrats who run Wall Street but ZERO liberals.
There is a difference.
Liberals support capitalism...

Therefore...

You are INcorrect...

Or am I thinking REAL Liberals...

As in classic liberals...
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232126 Jul 20, 2010
arbitrageur wrote:
<quoted text>
But you are for BIG, BIG, government. Do YOU need protection?
Oh no...

That makes VDubya NON liberal...

Shock-a-mundo
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232127 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes i know Saddam had zero suicide bombings and zero Al Qaeda. But as for now after the war if bribes work for making insurgents stab each other in the back and hand their commrades over to the West then i say if it works, it works!
There is no question or doubt that the war was illegal. The UN Charter which all members of the UN swear to uphold was broken. Containment of Saddam was far more effective. And as some analysts say, countries like Iraq often need a hard b*stard of a Dictator to keep the place under control. I have no delusions about what Saddam was and was not. I know he gassed the Kurds, people who are hated both along the Iraq and Turkish border. Back then however Saddam was a pal of ours. That is one reason i will not accept the gassing of Kurds as one justification to call him a monster now but not back then when we tried to help him win a war against Iran.
Iraqs security is largely maintained by private security firms now. Thats why Western civilians and soldiers have accidentally been killed countless times. Iraq is not a victory, its a fortress and the reason it was more successful shall we say than Afghanistan is because it had some stability before the war. The people are used to being kept under an iron fist.
But Al Qaeda will be in Iraq for the rest of our life time probably. Any opportunity to bomb a crowded market or Western forces will be taken. It happens every few weeks and a large scale one happens every few months.
Iran wanted Iraq to become an Islamic Republic, while Iraq being a secular country refused. So as for Saddam keeping up the pretense that he did have WMD, i can understand this. Especially since Iraq came off second best in the Iran/Iraq War.
The Middle East is one of the last places you want to be destabalised. Bush accomplished this magnificently. And thanks to us many of those countries do have guns, bombs, planes and tanks we would rather they didnt.
Zero suicide murders under Saddam...

Wonder why?...

Could be that tree chipper/shredder that folks got dropped in feet first...
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232128 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Well your making good points, but from the evidence i have seen the Soviets were asked to intervene to help install a Socialist government. Again you might be right, but nothing i have ever seen, heard or read points to an aggressive invasion. If it was, why did the Soviets send government advisors to Afghanistan before sending in the military???
The curious thing about Osama Bin Laden is that he was happy enough to have Western infidenls in Afghanistan during the war. Osama Bin Laden is not the authority on Islam it has to be said and their is now law or rule say peoples of other religions should be banned from Islamic countries.
And another curious thing is that after the invasion of Afghanistan by the West, constuction on the gas pipelines restarted almot straight away.
Yes Usama bin Laden distorts Islam and unfortunately millions agree with him.

Why would Afghanistan want an Atheist communist/socialist government from Russia?

Many US military advisers were also sent to Vietnam and Korea before those wars.

On one of your own videos a Russian agent said that they never seen any Americans in Afghanistan so the support was only weaponry not personnel.

Pipelines for gas and oil are being built as well as Mega Military Installations peppered throughout Iraq and Afghanistan.

But naturally it is only speculation on my part.
chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232129 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes i know Saddam had zero suicide bombings and zero Al Qaeda. But as for now after the war if bribes work for making insurgents stab each other in the back and hand their commrades over to the West then i say if it works, it works!
I'll bet you failed to count these suicide murderers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governmental_pos...

''Others[who?] felt that Saddam's ties to terror groups were
well-established, and his weapons programs very real.
Although the U.S. has yet to find the location of the WMDs,
they did find records of bank transactions from some of Saddam's
accounts that paid various suicide bombers' families $25,000 in
exchange for their sons' martyrdom.''
WhiteCollarCrime

Islip Terrace, NY

#232130 Jul 20, 2010
chazmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Liberals support capitalism...
Therefore...
You are INcorrect...
Or am I thinking REAL Liberals...
As in classic liberals...
Authentic Liberals and Authentic Conservatives support fair capitalism, fair government, et cetera.

Corporate Democrats and Corporate Republicans are doggy dog winner takes all and always the bottom line matters.

This system keeps chazmo working three jobs and getting killed in taxes.

I just used your name as a generic.

chazmo

San Antonio, TX

#232132 Jul 20, 2010
Qwerty is a monkey wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a surprise! The good General didnt always seem like a very bright man or one who would vote for Obama non the less! Presuming thats true. You never know with these websites posting "facts" though.
Iraq was a scapegoat. But now it has become the problem it never was.
More like a different kind of problem...

Iran is soon to be a different kind of problem too...
Qwerty is a monkey

UK

#232133 Jul 20, 2010
WhiteCollarCrime wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the data.
When a country goes to war there is usually many underlining reasons for it and not made known to the public.
Why hasn't the USSR or USA invaded Cuba?
Is it probable that there is no oil there?
Why did the Soviets recently invade Georgia?
Is it probable that there is oil there?
----------
Iraq, 1917
http://tinyurl.com/raud8
They came as liberators but were met by fierce resistance outside Baghdad. Humiliating treatment of prisoners and heavy-handed action in Najaf and Fallujah further alienated the local population. A planned handover of power proved unworkable. Britain's 1917 occupation of Iraq holds uncanny parallels with today - and if we want to know what will happen there next, we need only turn to our history books...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...
Ok, good point again and i will say it is difficult to think of a war in the last 30 years that has not been fought over oil or some other resources. Take the Falklands for example.

That is a good question regarding Cuba, invading it would have been easy enough but is there not the possibility that we are just talking about different times and different circumstances. Cuba is Communist nation and it must have been very, very pleasing to the USSR that a small poor island nation a hundred miles off the coast of the US became Communist. If the US had invaded Cuba after the Revolution then can it not be reasonable to argue that the Soviets may have invaded a small Democratic nation along its lines that was closely tied to the US due to fear of the Soviet Union? Or was Cuba just not that important??? Could it be as simple as that?

At this time, both the US and the Soviets were fighting to keep ahead of each other in the arms race. "I have more nukes than you do".

Also what Soviet invasion of Georgia are you talking about? I thought Georgia was one of the founding States of the Soviet Union in 1917???

But yes, Britains past interests in Iraq were based upon the oil. All Western interest in Iraq over the last century has been based on oil. So im with you there. No question no doubt. But the 2003 invasion was more, it was also a scapegoat and in my view a supposed warning and punishment on the Islamic world on what Bush saw as an easy target.

Might interest you also-

The former head of MI5 (internal security) from 2002 to 2007 said on BBC News at the Iraq inquiry today that the invasion gave Al Qaeda a foothold in Iraq that it previously did not have, and that Saddam was a small and containable threat if a threat at all to anyone.

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