Homosexuality and the Bible

Aug 15, 2011 | Posted by: Selecia Jones- JAX FL | Full story: www.smh.com.au

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

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#11216
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Ivorydick wrote:
<quoted text>
My question HAS ALWAYS BEEN about why it is ok to ignore what the Bible actually says on EVERYTHING ELSE outside your subject.
BTW.
What version of the bible do you actually use?
'

I think your questions are fair.

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#11217
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Ivorydick wrote:
<quoted text>
My question HAS ALWAYS BEEN about why it is ok to ignore what the Bible actually says on EVERYTHING ELSE outside your subject.
BTW.
What version of the bible do you actually use?
I think your questions are fair. When that said, I have no problems with the anti-gay stand, but I think it is okay to ask questions. We're not in a dictatur-country now hier online, I think.
Jon

Pekin, IL

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#11218
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Robsan5 wrote:
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David, how can the word "homosexual" be in your bible, when it was unknown when the bible was written as the inspired word of god?
Why do you fight against the way god made you?
Robert
There's no David here and claiming that everyone shares your perversion who differs with your horrible hate based radical homosexual agenda just makes YOU look pathetic!

Are you really so completely ignorant that you think homosexual behavior just started when an English word was coined? Read the Bible. It repeatedly condemns all same sex behavior in the plainest of terms. When an English word was coined is completely irrelevant to Greek and Hebrew texts!
dman

Aurora, CO

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#11219
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Manmanman wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, did you misunderstand? I didn't ask for help now, so I don't want to go.
Pray and you will get,
look and you will find
knock and it will be locked up for you.
Tell me if there is anything more I can do for you.
My best!
Well how about some rosary beads or some carpacio...(Im sure you holy rollers have no clue what that is...)
Jon

Pekin, IL

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#11221
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Robsan5 wrote:
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David, I don't think that anyone who disagrees with me is homosexual. Not even you. I think you are bi-sexual. Your past would certainly indicate as much.
There was no word in ancient Hebrew or Greek for homosexual, so why is the word homosexual in the present day bible?
Why do you fight against the way your god made you?
Robert
You are a pathetic liar. You really know positively nothing about me, other than may actual posts. You even LIE about them. I assume that is because you know well enough that you can make no logical case for your hate based radical homosexual cause.

Take a look at these Bible verses again, fool. Are you really so stupid that you cannot see that they condemn all homosexual behavior in the plainest of terms? Where the term 'homosexual' is used, you can look at older translations to see how these terms were stated before that word was coined. Are you truly so ignorant that you think your perversion is something dating only a little more than a century, like the current English word? Truly, you present yourself as the ultimate idiot!

Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB)- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."

Since: Sep 09

Hollywood, CA.

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#11222
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Jon wrote:
<quoted text>We get that you reject the *GOD* revealed in the Bible in favor of one of your own make who approves of your perversion, but you've never been able to tell us what your source of information is on this 'god' you have made.
You also can't tell us who is going to save you from your sins.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
and??.. yeah?.. so?. I see statements by Corinthians ... What about God?... DUH!!!!!!!!!!

Since: Sep 09

Hollywood, CA.

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#11223
Aug 29, 2012
 

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GoJiRRa wrote:
<quoted text> How can you possibly say the bible is hallucination?!
Fucktard..He hallucinates in it! NUTCASE!... like you!
David The Fucktardo

Scotts Valley, CA

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#11224
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Jon wrote:
<quoted text>You are a pathetic liar. You really know positively nothing about me, other than may actual posts. You even LIE about them. I assume that is because you know well enough that you can make no logical case for your hate based radical homosexual cause.
Take a look at these Bible verses again, fool. Are you really so stupid that you cannot see that they condemn all homosexual behavior in the plainest of terms? Where the term 'homosexual' is used, you can look at older translations to see how these terms were stated before that word was coined. Are you truly so ignorant that you think your perversion is something dating only a little more than a century, like the current English word? Truly, you present yourself as the ultimate idiot!
Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB)- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
Hi David
Robsan5

Los Angeles, CA

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#11225
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Jon wrote:
<quoted text>You are a pathetic liar. You really know positively nothing about me, other than may actual posts. You even LIE about them. I assume that is because you know well enough that you can make no logical case for your hate based radical homosexual cause.
Take a look at these Bible verses again, fool. Are you really so stupid that you cannot see that they condemn all homosexual behavior in the plainest of terms? Where the term 'homosexual' is used, you can look at older translations to see how these terms were stated before that word was coined. Are you truly so ignorant that you think your perversion is something dating only a little more than a century, like the current English word? Truly, you present yourself as the ultimate idiot!
Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB)- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
David, what word was used in bibles before the word 'homosexual' was added?
You still haven't what the ancient Hebrew or Greek word for homosexual was.

Robert
Robsan5

Los Angeles, CA

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#11226
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Homosexuality and the Bible

  

Copyright © 1995, Rev. Clay Witt

 

Holy Redeemer M. C. C.

 Introduction

This paper was originally written in 1995 for a human sexuality seminar at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC.

This is a truly fascinating area of study. Every time I prepare to teach a class on the subject, I lean more. Particularly, I am just beginning to realize what a huge impact sexual practices in pagan fertility cults had on early Jewish and Christian people and how an association between homosexuality and the worship of pagan idols developed in their minds -- an association that "poisoned the well" and produced centuries of needless suffering for gay and lesbian people. I hope to find the time to update this document with more on that as time goes on.

A list of sources consulted in the preparation of this paper is included at the end. The original paper was extensively footnoted. The footnoting was lost in converting the file to html. If you want the fully footnoted document, e-mail me and I will send you the word-processing file in rich-text format.

Here is the paper. I hope that it will add to your understanding.

Preface

In his book Living in Sin: A Bishop Rethinks Human Sexuality John Shelby Spong speaks of a Southern pastor who wrote to him in opposition to his support for the blessing of committed gay and lesbian relationships. He relates that the pastor wrote "urging that I ‘be in repentance and sorrow for the anti-scriptural stand on sexuality you have taken. The thought of blessing the very same perversions that have scripturally been promised due penalty is abhorrent to the very mind of Christ.’"

The pastor’s view is, of course, not unusual. The idea that the Bible (and therefore God) is unalterably opposed to any form of sexual expression between those of the same gender is deeply held by many Christians. This is the first and strongest barrier encountered by gay and lesbian people who are attempting to affirm their self worth and their Christianity in our culture.
Robsan5

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#11227
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Con't-
I begin by noting my bias is in favor of Spong. I know first hand, from my own experience and that of many others, the pain and suffering the unnamed Southern pastor’s views cause. Lives are ruined, people are separated from their families, and—worst of all—people are separated from the assurance that they are loved by God. Some who now hold such views are not open to dialogue, but some are. I think that it is important for Christians to realize that the Bible’s reputed position against the physical expression of love between two people of the same gender, particularly between those in committed relationships, is not nearly as clear cut as they may have been taught.

Toward Understanding the Biblical Position
Regarding Homosexuality

First of all, something needs to be said about terms. As Furnish points out, "homosexuality" is a fairly modern term and there are no Hebrew or ancient Greek equivalents. The word was not even coined until the second half of the nineteenth century. Even then, it was coined by a Hungarian writer. It did not come into English usage until toward the end of that century. "In fact, the first use of the term "homosexuals" in an English Bible did not come until 1946, with the publication of the Revised Standard Version of the New Testament."  Certainly, there was no understanding of the term in the modern sense, informed by careful scientific study, of a person whose inherent sexual orientation is toward another of his or her own gender. Many of the writers on the subject of "homosexuality" and the Bible use the term loosely to mean same-sex genital activity in some context. Various quotations in this paper should be understood in that light. I have also used the term in that sense in some places as a matter of convenience.

It is also important at the beginning to place the topic in prospective. Victor Paul Furnish, Professor of New Testament at Perkins School of Theology, recounts having received an urgent telephone call from a television host scheduled to interview a "gay rights leader." The host wanted to confront the leader with biblical injunctions against homosexuality, but had been unable to find any. Furnish states that "[t]hat interviewer had already discovered something important although he scarcely realized it: Homosexuality is not a prominent biblical concern." Another author says it this way: "The first point that must be made … is that the current intense interest in the issue of homosexuality and the Bible is our interest; it does not reflect the biblical priorities."
Robsan5

Los Angeles, CA

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#11228
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Out of the thousands of passages in the Bible, only a handful are usually used by those espousing biblical condemnation of homosexuality. The prophets, who’s office often involves cataloging sin, do not condemn same-gender sexual relations. At least in recorded Scripture, Jesus said nothing at all on the subject. There is not one mention of same-gender sexual relations in any of the gospels. While one must be cautious about arguing from silence, I agree with Spong that this "does suggest that those who consider this ‘the most heinous sin’ must be terribly disturbed that our Lord appears either to have ignored it completely or to have said so little on the subject that no part of what he said was remembered or recorded."

There are a number of books dealing with these few passages in considerable detail, some of which are cited in this paper. My intention here is to draw on a few of them which play prominently in the current debates and to touch on some of the significant exegetical questions which they raise.

Sodom and Gomorra

The first passage is the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra in Genesis. The story really begins in Genesis 18. To summarize, three men appear before Abraham at the oaks of Mamre; apparently God and two angles. Abraham extends elaborate Middle Eastern hospitality to them. The men promise Abraham and Sarah, his wife, a child in their advanced old age. The men set out and Abraham accompanies them on the beginning of their journey. After a brief argument with "himself," God decides to take Abraham into "his" confidence. God reveals that there has been an outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah and that God plans to investigate to see whether the complaints are well founded. The angels proceed on toward Sodom while Abraham stays behind and engages in some remarkable "horse trading" with God. He eventually gets God to agree not to destroy Sodom if even 10 righteous people can be found there.

Meanwhile, the two angels arrive at Sodom and are invited by Lot, Abraham’s nephew, to stay the night at his house. All of the people of Sodom, "to the last man," surround the house and demand that the angels be brought out so that they may "know" them. Despite Lot’s offer of his two virgin daughters (something which gives the modern mind pause and which might in and of itself caution against using this story as a paradigm of sexual ethics), they persist and are struck blind by the angels. Lot and his family escape, although Lot’s wife is turned into salt for looking back contrary to the angels’ instructions. The cities are destroyed by sulfur and fire from heaven.

Without doubt, the people of Sodom were wicked, but it would be a gross distortion to claim (as many do without thinking) that their wickedness was grounded in a homosexual orientation. We are explicitly told in Ezekiel: "This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it."

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

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#11231
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
You know David is much more interested in having something else in his own throat.
David has been in constant denial about his own sexuality for so long, I bet he has totally confused himself. God wouldn't want him to deny the way god created him, but David fights it everyday. What a terrible way to go thru life: depressed, frustrated, confused and angry.
Robert
"Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him" (1 Cor. 7:17 RSV)

Should David blame God for his messed up life? It isn't homosexuals who messed up his life, it is his belief in the Bible that has turned him into a mean confused cretin. Sort of a sub species of the rest of us.

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#11232
Aug 30, 2012
 

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Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
"Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him" (1 Cor. 7:17 RSV)
Should David blame God for his messed up life? It isn't homosexuals who messed up his life, it is his belief in the Bible that has turned him into a mean confused cretin. Sort of a sub species of the rest of us.
That's about it in a nutshell I'd say.

“... from a ...”

Since: Mar 09

GREAT HEIGHT

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#11233
Aug 30, 2012
 

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Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
"Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him" (1 Cor. 7:17 RSV)
Should David blame God for his messed up life? It isn't homosexuals who messed up his life, it is his belief in the Bible that has turned him into a mean confused cretin. Sort of a sub species of the rest of us.
So THAT'S why he's MEAN confused cretin ... instead of just a confused cretin like the rest of us.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Mel

Pekin, IL

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#11237
Aug 30, 2012
 

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WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Looks like another way to use the Bible to condemn others. Is this what you think Jesus was all about?
Matthew 7:1 is short and sweet. So is the fact that Jesus promoted the two greatest commandments to Love. Your post promotes hatred.
FAIL
NEXT
If you believed in God's Word, you would want to warn others of the consequences of willful sin. Jesus forgave those who repented, but told them to go and sin no more. God's Word makes it plain that homosexuals who do not repent of homosexual behavior suffer eternal consequences.
Preaching God's Word is love not hate.
You obviously are very guilty about your lifestyle choice, considering yourself waste water. The only way you will ever find peace in this life or in the next is to repent and follow Jesus.8

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#11238
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Mel wrote:
<quoted text>If you believed in God's Word, you would want to warn others of the consequences of willful sin. Jesus forgave those who repented, but told them to go and sin no more. God's Word makes it plain that homosexuals who do not repent of homosexual behavior suffer eternal consequences.
Preaching God's Word is love not hate.
You obviously are very guilty about your lifestyle choice, considering yourself waste water. The only way you will ever find peace in this life or in the next is to repent and follow Jesus.8
Rant dismissed.

FAIL

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“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#11239
Aug 30, 2012
 

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WasteWater wrote:
... NEXT
The next David Moore sock puppett?

You two are doing a paux de deux.

Since: Aug 11

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#11240
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Joe DeCaro wrote:
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The next David Moore sock puppett?
You two are doing a paux de deux.
Oh yes.

I love ballet.
Ramona

Scotts Valley, CA

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#11241
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WasteWater wrote:
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Rant dismissed.
FAIL
NEXT
You Rock WasteWater.

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