#4768 Aug 11, 2012
See, it wouldn't have been such a bad thing to require circumcision, now would it?
It's healthier, cleaner, and maybe even allows a man to last longer in bed, or whatever...
Just add it on, they (Gentiles) can take it. It is our father's tradition and God said to do it...
What's good for His children is good for them.
Wow, do we see the implications of this set of events in Christian history? The first apostolic conference?
#4769 Aug 11, 2012
And, when, I ask you, did I EVER say that I knew any HH elders? That is something YOU have assumed, but that I have never said.
I have said that I have FRIENDS in HH who are life long friends to me.
I did not say they were or are elders, because the aren't!
#4770 Aug 11, 2012
And Pilgrim is completely correct on the Anabaptist roots of the UPC.
There are 3 basic branches in the christian faith.
~ Roman Catholic
~ Those who broke from the Catholic church but retained liturgy,
infant baptism, and the priesthood in some form (lutheran, presbyterian,
church of England, episcopalian)
~ Those who broke totally from the Catholic church in all ways. No liturgy,
baptism AFTER conversion, no priesthood, emphasis on faith.
The first group to practice baptism AFTER conversion (post reformation) was the group known as the Anabaptists ( which means, "re-baptizer"). ALL churches that practice baptism AFTER conversion are the offspring of the ANABAPTISTS.
This would include:
Church of the Nazarene
So, YES, HH is completely correct when they state that they have ANABAPTIST roots.
#4771 Aug 11, 2012
Within your boxes you could say HH has Catholic roots with their newly found authority doctrines. Which parallel the old Catholic or universal view. That the authority of the Church takes the place of the authority of Jesus (or the Holy Spirit coming after).
HH may say that their authority is Holy Ghost driven. In my view they got tired of the Azusa Street paradigm and made a structure of God-driven authority all their own.
Very similar to the RCC except that this authority is more controlling of the individual's life. Much more.
As well as Anabaptist.
#4772 Aug 11, 2012
This is the way of OT prophets:
The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him. 16 "This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying,`Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.' 17 "The LORD said to me,`They have spoken well. 18 `I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 `It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18
And so then what is this about in-house revelation?
What is our paradigm and how does YHWH work?
#4773 Aug 11, 2012
The last post also describes what Yeshua meant when he said that he comes in the name of the Father.
Among Jews who know Deut 18 as a messianic prophesy,
this is the direct key to the meaning.
41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God[d]?
45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”
#4774 Aug 11, 2012
See again the Shema inherent in Jesus' words.
You do not have the love of God in your hearts.
When we see YHWH on the judgement seat, Jesus will attempt and be there to be our mediator.
He will not accuse us. But those who thought they had a free get-out-of-jail card might find their disappointment great. Reformed and Baptists?
And those who thought the small law could condemn them...
What does the scripture say?
#4775 Aug 11, 2012
The glory of YHWH:
In the Book of Exodus 33:19, Moses is told that no human being can see the glory of Yahweh and survive:
Yahweh then said to Moses,'Again I shall do what you have asked, because you enjoy my favour and because I know you by name.'
He then said,'Please show me your glory.'
Yahweh said,'I shall make all my goodness pass before you, and before you I shall pronounce the name Yahweh; and I am gracious to those to whom I am gracious and I take pity on those on whom I take pity. But my face', he said,'you cannot see, for no human being can see me and survive.' Then Yahweh said,'Here is a place near me. You will stand on the rock, and when my glory passes by, I shall put you in a cleft of the rock and shield you with my hand until I have gone past. Then I shall take my hand away and you will see my back; but my face will not be seen.'
The prophet Ezekiel writes in his vision:
I saw a brilliance like amber, like fire, radiating from what appeared to be the waist upwards; and from what appeared to be the waist downwards, I saw what looked like fire, giving a brilliant light all round. The radiance of the encircling light was like the radiance of the bow in the clouds on rainy days. The sight was like the glory of Yahweh.
The glory of YHWH is the Shekinah presence originally over the Tent of Meeting then in the Holy of Holies in the Temple in Jerusalem...
In, of and round about the Savior, the Christ the Messiah who is our Lord,
Jn 1:14 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling [tabernacled] among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
This is the Holy Spirit whom we live and have our being. This is the presence of YHWH come in the name of Yeshua. This is the unifying principle of all believers:
I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
This glory and light was what Jesus prayed for before he met his destiny on the cross. Our strength. Our hope.
Our love first given and then given back.
#4776 Aug 12, 2012
The word ‘roots’ imply its beginning.
The HH elder’s came out of the UPC church.
Are Anabaptists and the UPC connected?
If you were actually present in the beginnings of HH you can then speak about what their actual beginnings were.
When we were in N.J. no one spoke the name ‘Anabaptist’ in the church.
HH has turned into whatever Blair wants the church to be.
#4777 Aug 12, 2012
31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
How is it that the HH elder’s do not practice this Holy Scripture?
Rage, anger, and slander has been a hallmark of how the HH elder’s treat those whom they have disfellowshiped out of HH.
#4778 Aug 12, 2012
How about: if you were actually present in the last 20 years then you can speak about what has actually taken place.
#4779 Aug 12, 2012
John 17 also explains how the believer is separated
FUNDAMENTALLY from the world...
Not by small law, not by new revelation apart from gospel...
13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by[d] the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
We see here that the WORD of YHWH separates the believer from the world, those who believe --
this word separates the true from the false...
The implications will separate physically and mentally, but the dynamic itself is stated here emphatically: it is the WORD which is the separator.
The Word of Blair Adams? Traditionally the Word of Jesus spoken in YHWH's place.
If Blair Adams has the TRUTH then let him proclaim it.
#4780 Aug 12, 2012
[How about: if you were actually present in the last 20 years then you can speak about what has actually taken place.] AERO
How do you think Jesus Christ feels about the horrendous testimonies?
Do you honestly think HE states, IT IS TOO OLD?!!! IT DOES NOT COUNT?!
Any harm done to HIS saints, HE takes very seriously!
The question becomes, why is it your heart is hardened towards those the HH elder’s has harmed?
#4781 Aug 12, 2012
The many testimonies given; both RECENT AND OLDER events still happened in HH.
If Blair Adam’s doctrines still stand in HH and their abusive practices continues, there is all the more need to be on this website to speak out against such atrocities.
#4782 Aug 12, 2012
Miss the point, much?
#4783 Aug 12, 2012
OH, BUT AERO WANTS TO TALK ABOUT RECENT EVENTS IN HH!
OK, let us talk about CHILD ABUSE.
Let us talk about John’s SUICIDE.
You see, whether it was the time when I was in HH or the present, ALL HELL IS STILL BREAKING LOOSE IN HH.
#4784 Aug 12, 2012
You should note that ‘ROOTS’ is indicative of the group’s BEGINNING, and I was there when HH was in the beginning stages.
I can tell you that the word ‘ANABAPTIST’ was not ever spoken.
#4785 Aug 12, 2012
Are you stating that the HH elder’s has SUDDENLY decided to RE-WRITE HH history?
IS THAT NOT LYING?
#4786 Aug 12, 2012
You gonna get her riled again. She gets hysterical when she gets riled.
There is a vast difference between legal child abuse and losing children from the Body.
The recent case was an analomy. I will attest to this.
We lost John our brother. Many of us might have been able to help him more.
#4787 Aug 12, 2012
I can see that happening with these corrupt men.
Blair has been re-writing laws that do NOT even coincide with Holy Scriptures for decades now.
They want to give the public AN IMAGE.
A bunch of hippies coming to God through the UPC church, and then leaving that church they were born again in because your leader has decided that HE IS JESUS CHRIST COMING IN THE FLESH and he intends on re-writing the word of God through his DOCTRINES is not very pretty.
It is NOT what HH wants the world to see.
The public will say that HH is truly a CULT.
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