Letters on Homestead Heritage: Community or cult?

For seven years, we've shared fence lines with members of Homestead Heritage on three sides of our land. Full Story

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#4024 May 6, 2012
I lived to tell the truth wrote:
Your viciousness towards me exhibits how much you do NOT want these testimonies to be told.
How much you are covering for these vile leaders in HH.
You do not phase me one bit.
I do not serve those elders anymore as you continue to do.
Ummmm, so what you are saying here, in your response to Little Red Hen clearly laying out the Biblical way of handling ANY kind of dispute among believers, is "You (The Holy Scripture) do not phase me one bit"

And you are the one who crows on and on, demanding HH to return to the Bible!!! Jesus has a few things to say about hypocrites, and none of them bode well for you.

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#4025 May 6, 2012
This is a post from another forum. I think the poster asks a legitimate question of anyone who is supporting HH

Quote from HH/slander website.
"For our nearly 40-year history, our church ministry has always condemned and never tolerated any physical, psychological, mental, emotional or sexual abuse of anyone ..."

For those on here who are supporting HH, in light of the above quote from HH, I would like to ask you if you either experienced or witnessed the following in your time at HH:

1 Forceful or angry or yelling admonitions inches from the face of the recipient.
2 Excessive shaking of individuals during prayer and ministry.
3 Hours of questioning by groups of elders and/or ministers of those deemed to be in error.
4 Parents or children being required to cut off their relationship with each other in order to preserve the relationship with HH.
5 Humiliation of members or children in group or church-wide meetings.
6 Threats of damnation for leaving the group.
7 Ostracising of members who leave.

If you answer 'Yes' to any of these points, then the question that must be answered is do any of the above points constitute physical, psychological, mental or emotional abuse?
LRW

United States

#4026 May 6, 2012
I am trying to serve God. As the Leadership in that church taught me, incidentally. Now GOD did say, to also lay down your life in service to your brothers and sisters.'THOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD THY GOD, WITH ALL THY HEART, WITH ALL THY SOUL, WITH ALL THY MIGHT, AND LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, AS THYSELF'. And trust you me, I AM NOT SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE 'ELDERS', seeing as its been over a year since I have spoken a solitary word to them. Like I said before, I LEFT!! And while I am free to speak with my family, I don't consider it strange at all, that after you leave someone twice, you don't then spend the weekends hanging out! Although I have been told a hundred times, after twice breaking their hearts and breaking my word,they still long for me to come home. But, for real this time, I will no longer dignify your outrageous lies with responses, though I have an answer, based on FACTS, to everysingle sickening lie you tell, to answer just affords you more time to spread them, Since you take not even a pause to consider truth.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#4027 May 6, 2012
LRW wrote:
I am trying to serve God. As the Leadership in that church taught me, incidentally. Now GOD did say, to also lay down your life in service to your brothers and sisters.'THOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD THY GOD, WITH ALL THY HEART, WITH ALL THY SOUL, WITH ALL THY MIGHT, AND LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, AS THYSELF'. And trust you me, I AM NOT SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE 'ELDERS', seeing as its been over a year since I have spoken a solitary word to them. Like I said before, I LEFT!! And while I am free to speak with my family, I don't consider it strange at all, that after you leave someone twice, you don't then spend the weekends hanging out! Although I have been told a hundred times, after twice breaking their hearts and breaking my word,they still long for me to come home. But, for real this time, I will no longer dignify your outrageous lies with responses, though I have an answer, based on FACTS, to everysingle sickening lie you tell, to answer just affords you more time to spread them, Since you take not even a pause to consider truth.
What I wonder is why you can't simply live out your faith where you are. Why do you have to go back there to be a Christian?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#4028 May 6, 2012
And Little Red Hen
Not having been part of HH, you may not be aware that the ministry there reserves the right to obey biblical patterns or not, yet allow no one to bring one of the brothers before the church. I wish I could say that I agree with you because you indeed quote the biblical patterns laid down, but I know in many cases where no such patterns were followed or offered.
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4029 May 6, 2012
"1 Forceful or angry or yelling admonitions inches from the face of the recipient.
2 Excessive shaking of individuals during prayer and ministry.
3 Hours of questioning by groups of elders and/or ministers of those deemed to be in error.
4 Parents or children being required to cut off their relationship with each other in order to preserve the relationship with HH.
5 Humiliation of members or children in group or church-wide meetings.
6 Threats of damnation for leaving the group.
7 Ostracising of members who leave."

You just described the Homestead Heritage HH elders; right down to the last letter.
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4030 May 6, 2012
Your viciousness-nor anyone else's does NOT affect me Abbe...

You speak like a true cult member, twisting every word you possibly can.
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4031 May 6, 2012
I did not refer to anything the 'little red hen'?
stated.
Little Red Hen

Comfort, TX

#4033 May 6, 2012
With A Christian Outlook wrote:
And Little Red Hen
Not having been part of HH, you may not be aware that the ministry there reserves the right to obey biblical patterns or not, yet allow no one to bring one of the brothers before the church. I wish I could say that I agree with you because you indeed quote the biblical patterns laid down, but I know in many cases where no such patterns were followed or offered.
You are correct that I have never been part of HH, so obviously I am not an expert on it. I hope that I have not held myself out as an expert on HH in my posts. If it seemed that way, I apologize.
I have tried in my posts to stay away from commenting on specifics with regard to HH and have instead tried to speak from what I see as Biblical Christianity in general. I have also done this in order to attempt to speak to the general Christian public that is viewing these posts and media stories, to remind all of us what is expected of us Biblically as Christians.

One problem in the media stories, and in some posts, is that the accusers seem to want to appeal to the wider Christian audience via Christianized language, yet they themselves(the accusers) are not holding to a Biblical standard of behavior in my opinion. To me, an outsider, this seems dishonest and in a sense, predatory. I see fears, prejudices, hot button issues ( like spanking) all being paraded by the viewing public in the hopes, it would seem, that something "would stick" with those viewing. It would seem that the accusers are hoping that one of those issues, or many, would finally offend the greater Christian audience, cause a melding of opinion, and eventually become an impetus for unified action.

I do not believe that the accusers are simply telling these stories so that they can tell them. No, from comments I have seen, clearly there is a desire to force some kind of action - regardless of who gets hurt. I have seen comments calling for the HH children to be removed from the HH campus. Which strikes me as particularly odd coming from a group who complains that HH supposedly separates families.

Further, of great concern are the lessons that the media will learn in all this. Lessons like - how to successfully slant a story, how to vilify those who appear different than the wider culture, how to call motives into question, how to stoke fears, and engender rage. In short, the media is gaining a doctorate in how to create a useful mob that springs to action at the media's bidding.

These lessons will be very valuable to the media in the future, I am quite sure.

Question is, who will they come for next?
Anonymous

Chino Valley, AZ

#4034 May 6, 2012
The spirit of those who attack this group in this social setting is bitter and self contained. Free yourself of your bondage to the past, and finger pointing, and move on! The spirit of those defending this group in this setting is largely hateful, vengeful, angry, and unchristian. If you think you are doing them any favors, you are not. You are making them look bad.
Little Red Hen

Comfort, TX

#4035 May 6, 2012
As the famous quote about World War II era Germany goes,

" First they came for the communists,
And I did not speak out because I was not a communist...

Then they came for the Jews,
And I did not speak out because I was not a Jew...

Then they came for me
But by that time there was no one left to speak out for me..."

If we as Christians allow a group of brethren to be convicted in the media, and we say nothing, we should not be surprised when there is no one to speak for us if or when the media knocks on the door of OUR church next...

~ and calls for our children to be removed
~ and flies helicopters over our private property
~ and takes pictures without permission
~ and never bothers to get both sides of the story
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4036 May 7, 2012
YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO TELL THE PRESS THAT EVERYONE CAN COME AND GO AS THEY PLEASE IN HH!
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4037 May 7, 2012
Then how is it that when my father was dying the HH elders FORBID me to go back to NJ????

You stated that I had to have a specific word from God, and that if I could NOT provide you with that, then in the HH elder's opinion, I WOULD BE PUTTING HIM FARTHER INTO HELL by going back to be with him in his time of need.

I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4038 May 7, 2012
Do you want to know what is being said of HH here in NJ now?

How one of your leaders was allowed to put HIS parents up in homes in Texas WITHOUT PAYING TOWARDS THEIR MONTHLY COSTS.

The news in NJ is that you are rich.
THAT is it as far as any 'word from God' being spoken.

You pick and choose who will be allowed to be a blessing to their parents, AND THOSE WHO WILL NOT.

I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4039 May 7, 2012
“Be shepherds of the flock that is under your care, serving as overseers-not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; NOT LORDING OVER THOSE INTRUSTED TO YOU, but being examples to the flock.” 1 Peter 5: 2-3.

"1 Forceful or angry or yelling admonitions inches from the face of the recipient.
2 Excessive shaking of individuals during prayer and ministry.
3 Hours of questioning by groups of elders and/or ministers of those deemed to be in error.
4 Parents or children being required to cut off their relationship with each other in order to preserve the relationship with HH.
5 Humiliation of members or children in group or church-wide meetings.
6 Threats of damnation for leaving the group.
7 Ostracising of members who leave."
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4040 May 7, 2012
BIG difference. HUGE difference between these two; a statement describing the HH elders vs. the WORD OF GOD.

There is NO comparison.

It is not hard to understand how people are committing suicide in HH-along with every other matter of hell coming out of HH.

If the public sees the full story behind HH, it is not hard at all to understand how these horrendous testimonies are coming out of HH.

I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4041 May 7, 2012
Some are treated with kit gloves in HH.

Some are dragged through the most heinous experiences ever in HH.
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#4042 May 7, 2012
I will tell you why it is so important to speak about all such matters concerning HH:

Come next Sunday, the HH elders will continue to pick another soul out and do the same to them.

It is not bitterness that brings me, and so many others to this site;
it is the fact that until the HH elders return to the LORD JESUS CHRIST the same nightmares will continue happen to my brothers and sisters who are left in HH.
to him who has ears

United States

#4043 May 7, 2012
I lived to tell the truth wrote:
Do you want to know what is being said of HH here in NJ now?
How one of your leaders was allowed to put HIS parents up in homes in Texas WITHOUT PAYING TOWARDS THEIR MONTHLY COSTS.
The news in NJ is that you are rich.
THAT is it as far as any 'word from God' being spoken.
You pick and choose who will be allowed to be a blessing to their parents, AND THOSE WHO WILL NOT.
When grievances arise between believers, we have the following options open to us:

1. We can go to them one on one to attempt reconciliation.
2. We can take 2 or 3 witnesses w/ us if step 1 fails, and confront the person
again.
3. We can involve the whole church, if step 2 fails.
4. We can treat them as " a pagan and tax collector", in other words disassociate
with them, if step 3 fails.

Step 4 is where it ends. That, for the Christian, is the end of the line with regard to grievances between believers. No where are we instructed to tell the story to the non believing public, nor to write stories about it, nor to engage non believers in the issue. We are not to stand on a street corner and shout the issue to passersby who have no context for understanding it, and who do not personally know the people involved. We are not given permission to air the church's problems in a public forum. If from then on we regard the other believers as enemies, so be it, but even then we are commanded to pray for them, and to do good to them as far as we are able. We're even supposed to provide our enemies with food and drink if they need it -not attempt to remove their livelihood from them!

Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 6 speak directly to this, as do other passages. In fact, Paul goes so far as to suggest in 1 Corinthians 6 that we should prefer to be cheated or wronged ourselves rather than to take our brother to court in front of unbelievers. That's a pretty strong statement, and one I'm sure our modern world would have trouble understanding, just as the unbelieving world would have trouble understanding that we are to pray for, and feed our enemies.
to him who has ears

United States

#4044 May 7, 2012
I lived to tell the truth wrote:
Then how is it that when my father was dying the HH elders FORBID me to go back to NJ????
You stated that I had to have a specific word from God, and that if I could NOT provide you with that, then in the HH elder's opinion, I WOULD BE PUTTING HIM FARTHER INTO HELL by going back to be with him in his time of need.
When grievances arise between believers, we have the following options open to us:

1. We can go to them one on one to attempt reconciliation.
2. We can take 2 or 3 witnesses w/ us if step 1 fails, and confront the person
again.
3. We can involve the whole church, if step 2 fails.
4. We can treat them as " a pagan and tax collector", in other words disassociate
with them, if step 3 fails.

Step 4 is where it ends. That, for the Christian, is the end of the line with regard to grievances between believers. No where are we instructed to tell the story to the non believing public, nor to write stories about it, nor to engage non believers in the issue. We are not to stand on a street corner and shout the issue to passersby who have no context for understanding it, and who do not personally know the people involved. We are not given permission to air the church's problems in a public forum. If from then on we regard the other believers as enemies, so be it, but even then we are commanded to pray for them, and to do good to them as far as we are able. We're even supposed to provide our enemies with food and drink if they need it -not attempt to remove their livelihood from them!

Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 6 speak directly to this, as do other passages. In fact, Paul goes so far as to suggest in 1 Corinthians 6 that we should prefer to be cheated or wronged ourselves rather than to take our brother to court in front of unbelievers. That's a pretty strong statement, and one I'm sure our modern world would have trouble understanding, just as the unbelieving world would have trouble understanding that we are to pray for, and feed our enemies.

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