Toddlers and Tiaras

Caught the first show this past weekend. They win these ridiculous ribbons and trophies and they work very hard for it and yes their hair is dyed and they are tanned and the teeth are done over and on and on.

But JB didn't practice much, it was a once and a while thing, per Patsy.

Tune in and see how once in a while it is. These people are bizarre.

Anything carried to excess seems bizarre.

Most of JonBenet's pageants were rather simple affairs. Its a way of life, particularly in the American South, to have girls participate in beauty pageants well before their teen years.

I would consider sitting through a kiddie pageant to be sheer torture but obviously some enjoy it.

I think John Ramsey may have moved to Boulder but Patsy moved Atlanta to Boulder. Don't think her decorating tastes or her pageant activities had anything to do with the intruder's motivation though.

The pageants played a big part in the family dynamics that set the stage.

Patsy’s love for JonBenet was conditional. JonBenet was a brown haired green-eyed little girl. Patsy manipulated her tiny body and self into her vision of beauty, which was a blond haired blue-eyed child. She didn’t have her wear a wig for just the pageants; she actually had a routine of bleaching her hair to permanently alter it. It would have been uncomfortable and physical distressing for a little girl to endure this every 6 weeks or so but far more consequential were the psychological ramifications on her little sense of self and developing ego. There are specific goals and stages to human development that were rerouted and disconnected by altering JonBenet’s appearance. JonBenet already had a host of emotional and behavioral problems with the most telling her incontinence. She was a six year old from an affluent family and her inability to read suggests a learning disability. Had the incident that ended her life so early not occurred she would have gone on to struggle with dire consequences.

The kiddie pageant circuit isn't limited to the south but it is limited to a lower class blue-collar mentality. The biggest pageant prize has always been scholarship funding. The last thing JonBenet would have needed was college tuition had she won what Patsy lost, the Miss America title. JonBenet didn’t win any of the pageant titles she held subjectively. They were won objectively because her mother spent more money on the costumes and trappings.

Once a parent alters a six year old child's appearance, it is excessive AND bizarre. JonBenet had her hair dyed and her teeth done as well as a face full of make up; so yes I agree anything like that is excessive, abusive and bizarre. Patsy did it all

NONE of JBR's pageants were simple affairs according to the photos and footage we have seen, as well as Nedra's proclamation that JonBenet "WILL" participate! Custom made costumes, make up, dance and "lessons" in all sorts of pageantry needs is by far NOT simple, nor a few afternoons. Now you're just being au contraire Don. It is well documented and impossible to dispute the extent to which Patsy and Nedra, et al prepared JBR for the pageants from a very young age and we have the photos and videos to prove it. You can't dispute those FACTS

No, nobody will mistake any of Patsy's bizarre behavior to any intruder's motivation because there was no intruder.

Hopefully, toddlers and tiaras as well as other shows such as this will open the eyes of child welfare agencies to put restrictions and age limits on hair dye, make-up and dress codes for children involved with these wannabee mothers, etc. who put their little children through stress and torment to compete on such levels.

There are many pageants for little kids that don't require fancy, custom made outfits or cosmetic alterations that are intrusive for kids to enjoy. The kids just enjoy themselves and the parents don't have to worry about how many trophies they can accumulate, nor having to have excessive finances to allow their kids to be a part of it.

Kids actually having fun instead of these crazy mothers. Now THAT is a novel idea huh!!!!!

Capricorn wrote:

NONE of JBR's pageants were simple affairs according to the photos and footage we have seen, as well as Nedra's proclamation that JonBenet "WILL" participate!

Nedra had no major accomplishments in her life except being the mother of two Miss West Virginia pageant participants. When the possibility for her to become the first multi generational 'mother' developed, the strategy for winning and competing become more intense. At some alumni dinner or show Nedra was singled out and I think the possibility of special recognition and an award was bantered about if JonBenet followed her mother and aunt’s footsteps. It was Nedra, Patsy, and Pam working together that really directed all the efforts against JonBenet living and developing normally. Their behavior did potentate one another like any street gang with evil intentions.

Capricorn wrote:

Once a parent alters a six year old child's appearance, it is excessive AND bizarre. JonBenet had her hair dyed and her teeth done as well as a face full of make up; so yes I agree anything like that is excessive, abusive and bizarre. Patsy did it all
NONE of JBR's pageants were simple affairs according to the photos and footage we have seen, as well as Nedra's proclamation that JonBenet "WILL" participate! Custom made costumes, make up, dance and "lessons" in all sorts of pageantry needs is by far NOT simple, nor a few afternoons. Now you're just being au contraire Don. It is well documented and impossible to dispute the extent to which Patsy and Nedra, et al prepared JBR for the pageants from a very young age and we have the photos and videos to prove it. You can't dispute those FACTS
No, nobody will mistake any of Patsy's bizarre behavior to any intruder's motivation because there was no intruder.
Hopefully, toddlers and tiaras as well as other shows such as this will open the eyes of child welfare agencies to put restrictions and age limits on hair dye, make-up and dress codes for children involved with these wannabee mothers, etc. who put their little children through stress and torment to compete on such levels.
There are many pageants for little kids that don't require fancy, custom made outfits or cosmetic alterations that are intrusive for kids to enjoy. The kids just enjoy themselves and the parents don't have to worry about how many trophies they can accumulate, nor having to have excessive finances to allow their kids to be a part of it.
Kids actually having fun instead of these crazy mothers. Now THAT is a novel idea huh!!!!!

Anyone who believes these are small affairs should tune into Toddlers and Tiaras. The parents drive hundreds of miles to get there so that means so does the Toddler. They are spray tanned, hair is bleached, and they are taught the perennial smile and it is TWILIGHT ZONE time.

And after seeing this and how JB looked, Patsy is Bizarro herself. They learn to smile and then as they are turning stop the smile for a second so they can rest their face. At one point you can see the girl doing just that.

And the places themselves are absolutely creepy. They all look like rundown Howard Johnson's - no kidding. Last week there was a special on the first English girl to compete and you see her rehearsing and rehearsing and rehearsing into the evening and her parents go to bed and they then turn the camera on her rehearsing and she does not win.

There is one pageant tape wherein some people see a JMK watching JonBenet perform. Now don't get me wrong: I do NOT think it is JMK. I don't even think this unidentified male even looks like JMK, but some on the internet seem to think so.

One thing is certain: it surely is not some lavish Toddlers and Tiaras type event and is much closer to being termed ' low key event '.

The smaller affairs in shopping malls are done to showcase the 'Pageant Industry' and pick up new customers while providing resume entries to existing clients. It is a business.

I saw a small clip from the show with a three year old crying hysterically. A parent had to have been nearby provoking whatever was the source of the terror. It was abuse. I don't understand how the film makers could stand by and not intervene.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44

FG,

Jaz is correct that the Internet video you saw was not the pageant. It was a child performance at the mall.

JB's costumes were extravagant. They are expensive and most of the outfits are custom-made. The spangles are individually hand-sewn on some of these pageant costumes.

A topic I've not read discussed here is if Patsy was doing this hoping to bond with JB. Or if there had been a bonding problem between mother and daughter. Patsy was deathly ill when JB was an infant, and probably missed much of JB's years of ages 2 and 3 either flying to treatments in Maryland, or spending days or weeks in bed recovering from them.

I also agree that Nedra's hope of some recognition may have led Patsy to wish to please her mother by making that possible.

FoolsGold wrote:

There is one pageant tape wherein some people see a JMK watching JonBenet perform. Now don't get me wrong: I do NOT think it is JMK. I don't even think this unidentified male even looks like JMK, but some on the internet seem to think so.
One thing is certain: it surely is not some lavish Toddlers and Tiaras type event and is much closer to being termed ' low key event '.

Note jahazafat's entry below yours. It is absolutely true -- even the low-end pageants are promotional events meant to profit the pageant director who puts them on. Or, to put it another way, JonBenet did not appear in one single pageant for fun. All pageants were for-profit, and that includes both her last and even her first, the Little Miss Charlevoix title, which as part of the Charlevoix Venetian Festival existed to bring in tourist dollars, not just let little girls dress up and have fun. Contrast that with the often-used example of Burke's Little League participation, Little League being a non-profit where it is actually against the rules for a participant to pay a fee for entry.

FoolsGold wrote:

There is one pageant tape wherein some people see a JMK watching JonBenet perform. Now don't get me wrong: I do NOT think it is JMK. I don't even think this unidentified male even looks like JMK, but some on the internet seem to think so.
One thing is certain: it surely is not some lavish Toddlers and Tiaras type event and is much closer to being termed ' low key event '.

Telephone records proof?

lucyd wrote:

A topic I've not read discussed here is if Patsy was doing this hoping to bond with JB. Or if there had been a bonding problem between mother and daughter. Patsy was deathly ill when JB was an infant, and probably missed much of JB's years of ages 2 and 3 either flying to treatments in Maryland, or spending days or weeks in bed recovering from them.
I also agree that Nedra's hope of some recognition may have led Patsy to wish to please her mother by making that possible.

It is a fact that there has never been a single story told by a member of Patsy's family or from her friends to the effect that she loved bonding with JonBenet outside of the pageants. In the whole of the book JONBENET'S MOTHER by Linda McLean (a devoted Patsy fan), not once is Patsy ever described as playing with JonBenet for fun. The only interactions they are ever described as having together involve doing homework. So, yes, I would say there may have been "a bonding problem between mother and daughter."

There is every reason to believe that when Patsy looked at her daughter, she saw a girl who would grow up to have ovarian cancer as she herself did. Despite prior claims of Patsy's belief she had been "cured," John Ramsey stated on CBS in 2006 that neither she nor he believed it, and that this is why the pageant activities started up -- so that Patsy could see JonBenet participate in pageants because she probably would not live long enough to see JonBenet participate during her teen years, when arguably it would have been more appropriate.

I agree wholeheartedly Why_Nut. I have said over and over again during these years that NOBODY, even the Jameson's of the forums and others who claimed to know the family, friends, etc. EVER described Patsy and JonBenet as anything other than pageant kid and pageant mom, aside from homework and an occasional shopping trip.

NOT ONCE, NEVER, did anyone EVER describe Patsy and JonBenet at the park, playing games, going to the zoo, etc. Patsy and JonBenet's life "together" consisted of Patsy and JonBenet at dance lessons, costume sessions, singing lessons, violin lessons, French lessons (what a farce) and only other pageant related activities.

I have never heard, even out of Patsy's own mouth, nor JBR's brother or father's mouth, or their friends mouths that they were ever physically playful or affectionate. There was no rolling around and tickling, kissing, and just plain physical horse play and affection. If it was written about or described publicly, I missed it. I have never read nor heard described what most of us have experienced. When JonBenet needed comfort during the night, she would go to Burke's room; NEVER once did I hear John or Patsy describe waking up to find JonBenet in their bed or having the issue of JonBenet crawling in just to cuddle, etc.

The bond they had was purely a "bussiness" relationship with the pageants. JonBenet was to be an extension of Patsy whether she liked it or not

Capricorn wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly Why_Nut. I have said over and over again during these years that NOBODY, even the Jameson's of the forums and others who claimed to know the family, friends, etc. EVER described Patsy and JonBenet as anything other than pageant kid and pageant mom, aside from homework and an occasional shopping trip.
NOT ONCE, NEVER, did anyone EVER describe Patsy and JonBenet at the park, playing games, going to the zoo, etc. Patsy and JonBenet's life "together" consisted of Patsy and JonBenet at dance lessons, costume sessions, singing lessons, violin lessons, French lessons (what a farce) and only other pageant related activities.
I have never heard, even out of Patsy's own mouth, nor JBR's brother or father's mouth, or their friends mouths that they were ever physically playful or affectionate. There was no rolling around and tickling, kissing, and just plain physical horse play and affection. If it was written about or described publicly, I missed it. I have never read nor heard described what most of us have experienced. When JonBenet needed comfort during the night, she would go to Burke's room; NEVER once did I hear John or Patsy describe waking up to find JonBenet in their bed or having the issue of JonBenet crawling in just to cuddle, etc.
The bond they had was purely a "bussiness" relationship with the pageants. JonBenet was to be an extension of Patsy whether she liked it or not

If it was written about or described publicly, I missed it.

YOU missed it? You are slating the Ramseys on here and wonder why YOU missed it?!

bored with jahazafat wrote:

<quoted text>
If it was written about or described publicly, I missed it.
YOU missed it? You are slating the Ramseys on here and wonder why YOU missed it?!

I'm beginning to think you like me...stalking and all!

Capricorn wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly Why_Nut. I have said over and over again during these years that NOBODY, even the Jameson's of the forums and others who claimed to know the family, friends, etc. EVER described Patsy and JonBenet as anything other than pageant kid and pageant mom, aside from homework and an occasional shopping trip.
NOT ONCE, NEVER, did anyone EVER describe Patsy and JonBenet at the park, playing games, going to the zoo, etc. Patsy and JonBenet's life "together" consisted of Patsy and JonBenet at dance lessons, costume sessions, singing lessons, violin lessons, French lessons (what a farce) and only other pageant related activities.
I have never heard, even out of Patsy's own mouth, nor JBR's brother or father's mouth, or their friends mouths that they were ever physically playful or affectionate. There was no rolling around and tickling, kissing, and just plain physical horse play and affection. If it was written about or described publicly, I missed it. I have never read nor heard described what most of us have experienced. When JonBenet needed comfort during the night, she would go to Burke's room; NEVER once did I hear John or Patsy describe waking up to find JonBenet in their bed or having the issue of JonBenet crawling in just to cuddle, etc.
The bond they had was purely a "bussiness" relationship with the pageants. JonBenet was to be an extension of Patsy whether she liked it or not

Thank you Cap, Jahaz, Right and others. You have nailed the significance of the pageant activity regarding JonB. and Patsy and Nedra. You are all right. It is a low-income pretty much Southern activity, i.e. normal adult female glamour pageants. It has been extended now to the participation of children. It was originally a response to the times when a woman's beauty was all she had to make her way in life. Why it has become a popular thing to do with small girls I coulnd't tell you. You don't have to be a child psychologist to see that these parents don't have their heads screwed on straight. The Tiara show is, in my opinion, a DIRECT SPINOFF of the JonBenet Ramsey tragedy becuase that is when the kiddie pageants trly came to national attention. Shame.

Capricorn wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm beginning to think you like me...stalking and all!

Don't flatter yourself. Remember it was you who got involved not I. Thanks. You have proved my point and I won the argument. Ciao.

I don't have to flatter myself. You've done that for me already. Thanks

Adios. Come back anytime. Say hi to the Queen for me

why_nut wrote:

<quoted text>
the Little Miss Charlevoix title, which as part of the Charlevoix Venetian Festival existed to bring in tourist dollars, not just let little girls dress up and have fun.

I am absolutely SHOCKED that a resort town wants to bring in tourist dollars! Why the next thing you will be telling me is that the convertible supplied to a local parade was given in order to provide the dealer with free advertising.
>"meant to profit the pageant director"
After time and expenses etc,.. just how much profit are we talking about here?

Right on the Money wrote:

Caught the first show this past weekend. They win these ridiculous ribbons and trophies and they work very hard for it and yes their hair is dyed and they are tanned and the teeth are done over and on and on.
But JB didn't practice much, it was a once and a while thing, per Patsy.
Tune in and see how once in a while it is. These people are bizarre.

Bizarre to you. You couldn't even get a Tiara around your wrist with out greasing it with the fried chicken your scarf down to keep your shade tree figure.

You should look into the concept of "working hard" for something, like being able to see your toes some day, before you criticize hard working people. They made America.