Could JonBenet Ramsey's Murder Be Solved?

Legal__Eagle wrote:

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Hi Aussie, I don't know that I would use the word noble, but I do believe he wanted the case resolved. I don't think he cared who did it, he wanted justice for a child who had been murdered. I don't know if you have ever done any volunteer work with missing children, but I have done quite a bit over many years, and while you are working with the families and search groups, first you want to find the child and all you want after that is justice. I think he believed the case had stalled, and he did whatever he could to get a special prosecutor assigned to the case so the bickering and animosity between the BPD and the DA's office didn't stonewall the entire investigation. Just my perspective on it.

Hi Legal_Eagle, Obviously you have been deeply affected by your experiences and I would say that as a result you readily empathise with those who you perceive to be going through the same trauma as you did. And that is a wonderful thing. But honestly, I think you are so wrong to see Fleet White as falling into that category. Like, can you give any instance where he displayed any caring attitude towards JonBenet or compassion for his friends John and Patsy in the early days when he too, so we are led to believe, thought that an intruder had killed JonBenet? There is just no corroboration in what we know of the actions of Fleet in the early days for your beliefs about his feelings to have any validity IMO. It was always about him, no-one else from what I can see. And IMO he was acting like a very frightened man. What he was frightened about we can only speculate.

Mama2JML wrote:

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Okay, not B's DNA, or any other family member...
This is from Miss Marple's. Is it out of date? Do you have any information?
Who Has Not Been Cleared by DNA?
•According to Internet poster Athena, according to PMPT "McReynolds and Barnhill's DNA could not be excluded" p182 (This appears to be a paraphrased reference to paperback version of Schiller).

From my version of PMPT. No use giving page numbers, all the print runs are different

re Barnhill DNA
"The CBI told police that the Ramseys’ neighbour Joe Barnhill could be tentatively excluded as a source for the minor component of DNA, if the minor component came from one source, but that he could not be eliminated if the minor component originated from two or more sources – Further testing would take several months, the lab said"

re McReynolds DNA
"The day Brennan's no-footprints-in-the-snow article was published, the CBI gave the Boulder police Bill McReynolds's DNA test results: On the surface the report seemed to exclude him. His DNA did not match the DNA found on JonBenet's underpants. Nor did it match some DNA that that the CBI had found under her fingernails, which Coroner Meyer had clipped and preserved.

However, the CBI pointed out that the material found under her fingernails showed signs of contamination and the markers on the DNA typing were weak. The origin of the contamination had yet to be determined. Since handwriting and hair analysis for McReynolds still hadn't been completed, and Janet McReynolds's DNA test results were still pending, the couple remained suspects."

Read into those quotes what you will. Others have.

aussiesheila wrote:

<quoted text>From my version of PMPT. No use giving page numbers, all the print runs are different

re Barnhill DNA
"The CBI told police that the Ramseys’ neighbour Joe Barnhill could be tentatively excluded as a source for the minor component of DNA, if the minor component came from one source, but that he could not be eliminated if the minor component originated from two or more sources – Further testing would take several months, the lab said"

re McReynolds DNA
"The day Brennan's no-footprints-in-the-snow article was published, the CBI gave the Boulder police Bill McReynolds's DNA test results: On the surface the report seemed to exclude him. His DNA did not match the DNA found on JonBenet's underpants. Nor did it match some DNA that that the CBI had found under her fingernails, which Coroner Meyer had clipped and preserved.

However, the CBI pointed out that the material found under her fingernails showed signs of contamination and the markers on the DNA typing were weak. The origin of the contamination had yet to be determined. Since handwriting and hair analysis for McReynolds still hadn't been completed, and Janet McReynolds's DNA test results were still pending, the couple remained suspects."

Read into those quotes what you will. Others have.

I know, very weird...

It was proven that someone could get in through the basement window, and that foot print on the suitcase, showed that someone used it to climb out that window.
No one in that family did anything to her, other than love her! It was also shown that someone hid under a bed. Someone left a small white Christmas bear in her room. Know one knows who left that for her. Most of the clues are in the ransom note, read between the lines, its as plain as day.

Plain as day is the family never worked with the investigation. They never took polygraphs from police, said they were offended to be asked. Every other parent has agreed and taken them, every single other parent with a dead kid. The Ramseys stand apart with a big red letter M on their foreheads.

The parents worked with all their might against the investigation, against Jonbenet, pushing back the truth, burying it in layers of fraud, deceit and lies. That is the ultimate reflection she was not loved by them. They hated her. They blamed her for what happened. The mother could not use her name when speaking of her.

No need to look anywhere but the family. They were cornpokes with not an enemy in the world. JonBenet was not killed for sport.

fearless in Antioch wrote:

It was proven that someone could get in through the basement window, and that foot print on the suitcase, showed that someone used it to climb out that window.
No one in that family did anything to her, other than love her! It was also shown that someone hid under a bed. Someone left a small white Christmas bear in her room. Know one knows who left that for her. Most of the clues are in the ransom note, read between the lines, its as plain as day.

I'm waiting for Deb or another IDI to correct some of the false information in this post. ;)

The Truth Hurts wrote:

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I'm waiting for Deb or another IDI to correct some of the false information in this post. ;)

You'll have a head full of gray hair if you are really going to wait for an IDI to correct any of that, especially deb

Capricorn wrote:

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You'll have a head full of gray hair if you are really going to wait for an IDI to correct any of that, especially deb

LOL, yeah I know. I was hoping they would surprise us.

moonjack wrote:

Plain as day is the family never worked with the investigation. They never took polygraphs from police, said they were offended to be asked. Every other parent has agreed and taken them, every single other parent with a dead kid. The Ramseys stand apart with a big red letter M on their foreheads.
The parents worked with all their might against the investigation, against Jonbenet, pushing back the truth, burying it in layers of fraud, deceit and lies. That is the ultimate reflection she was not loved by them. They hated her. They blamed her for what happened. The mother could not use her name when speaking of her.
No need to look anywhere but the family. They were cornpokes with not an enemy in the world. JonBenet was not killed for sport.

Post of the day! Amen!

Moonjack,You need to re read the case, because you don't seem to have the facts correct. The fact is they did take the polygraph test so the police would get off of them, and on to the real killer.(They past those tests by the way.) They only stopped when they were told by their lawyer to stop. Where do you think the DNA came from ? It was not from any one in that family.
There was another young girl in that area, who survived an intruder in her bedroom. I believe that was the same man who killed JBR.
The Ramsey's were a family who loved all of their children, and took very good care of them.

When parents end up killing their children,there are years of abuse on all of the children. They are mostly low life people, who are into drugs or heavy drinking. Not upstanding people like the Ramsey's .Perhaps I feel this way because I am a parent, and you may not be ? Or you yourself had a bad childhood ?

Hey moonjack, the Ramseys passed the polygraphs they bought and paid for. It took them THREE DAYS to answer FIVE QUESTIONS. Phew!
And then they held a press conference where Susan Stine, dressed as an old JonBenet wannabe, passed out papers to the press. Then the skies parted and the Ramseys spoke and something like..ta da! We passed a very expensive polygraph and that makes us innocent..but, we wouldn't be if we took the FBI's polygraph for free. The big bad impartial FBI wouldn't let us take sedatives and give us THREE DAYS to answer the questions. Hopefully the public is stupi.., er, compassionate enough to buy our latest sham.' LOL

realTopaz wrote:

Hey moonjack, the Ramseys passed the polygraphs they bought and paid for. It took them THREE DAYS to answer FIVE QUESTIONS. Phew!
And then they held a press conference where Susan Stine, dressed as an old JonBenet wannabe, passed out papers to the press. Then the skies parted and the Ramseys spoke and something like..ta da! We passed a very expensive polygraph and that makes us innocent..but, we wouldn't be if we took the FBI's polygraph for free. The big bad impartial FBI wouldn't let us take sedatives and give us THREE DAYS to answer the questions. Hopefully the public is stupi.., er, compassionate enough to buy our latest sham.' LOL

THIS is the post of the day!

Now who is going to be the one to break the news about the "Santa bear" to "Fearless in Antioch", especially after his/her lecture to "moonjack" about not knowing the case?

fearless in Antioch wrote:

It was proven that someone could get in through the basement window, and that foot print on the suitcase, showed that someone used it to climb out that window.
No one in that family did anything to her, other than love her! It was also shown that someone hid under a bed. Someone left a small white Christmas bear in her room. Know one knows who left that for her. Most of the clues are in the ransom note, read between the lines, its as plain as day.

It has never been proven that there was a footprint on the suitcase.
It has never been proven that anyone hid under the bed. A dust ruffle that was pulled out a little means nothing. Patsy was packing suitcases on that bed and the ruffle could have caught on her foot.
All you are doing is mimicking Smit, who did NOT solve the murder.
The "Christmas bear" mystery has been solved years ago.
Maybe you should read up on the case before you go lecturing another poster.:)

The Ramseys never took official polygraphs from Law Enforcement; they took some other test with no affiliation to the investigation. It's like taking a P.Z.O. instead of S.A.T. for college applications. If you don’t understand the difference I see where you came from and why your opinions are not as worthy as some.

My best regards for a full recovery from your stroked out inability to think. Do you eat a lot of buttered bacon? Might as well put a rubber band around your neck. Oxygenated blood is needed for the brain to function correctly.

The Truth Hurts wrote:

<quoted text>
THIS is the post of the day!
Now who is going to be the one to break the news about the "Santa bear" to "Fearless in Antioch", especially after his/her lecture to "moonjack" about not knowing the case?

I thought we were waiting for deb or mama or one of the IDIs to correct it? No?:)

They seem to know everything. I am just shocked that they didn't just jump right on those errors

:)

Capricorn wrote:

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I thought we were waiting for deb or mama or one of the IDIs to correct it? No?:)
They seem to know everything. I am just shocked that they didn't just jump right on those errors
:)

I'm sorry. I couldn't help it. I noticed a gray hair and panicked. ;)

realTopaz wrote:

Hey moonjack, the Ramseys passed the polygraphs they bought and paid for. It took them THREE DAYS to answer FIVE QUESTIONS. Phew!
And then they held a press conference where Susan Stine, dressed as an old JonBenet wannabe, passed out papers to the press. Then the skies parted and the Ramseys spoke and something like..ta da! We passed a very expensive polygraph and that makes us innocent..but, we wouldn't be if we took the FBI's polygraph for free. The big bad impartial FBI wouldn't let us take sedatives and give us THREE DAYS to answer the questions. Hopefully the public is stupi.., er, compassionate enough to buy our latest sham.' LOL

The FBI were biased, and possibly involved in forensic fraud, in the MacDonald case, and in the Ramsey case. I accept that not all FBI agents, or FBI forensic experts, are corrupt.

The matter was discussed at the Steve Thomas deposition in 2001:

18 Q. I mean when I was out there

19 saying, you know, I didn't think the FBI is

20 objective because they've been involved in

21 this case to a significant amount, whether

22 you agree or not with my objectivity

23 conclusion, I was right about the fact that

24 the FBI had been significantly involved in

25 the case, wasn't I?

378

1 A. For the record I don't agree with

2 the objectivity conclusion but, yeah, they

3 were significantly involved in the case.

4 Q. It seems like from what you're

5 telling me that they were of the mind that

6 you were, that Patsy Ramsey they thought was

7 involved in the death of her daughter?

8 A. That certainly seemed to be my

9 impression.

10 Q. So whether that was an objective

11 decision by then I certainly was right to

12 have some concerns about whether or not they

13 had formed such a conclusion before I

14 submitted John or Patsy to the FBI

15 examination, wasn't I?

16 A. Well, twofold. One, I don't think

17 they would have -- I don't think there was

18 anything inappropriate with their polygraph

19 unit or that they would have conspired in any

20 way with their polygraphers.

21 Q. I also comment to you the ruse

22 interview that was attempted on Richard Jewell

23 by the FBI might be enlightening about FBI

24 tactics, legal and illegal. Do you agree

25 that you all investigated the hell out of

379

1 Bill McReynolds?

robert wrote:

<quoted text> Without me reading up on it, can you tell me what the mystery was of the x-mas bear? I really don't know the end of that so called mystery- Best I remember was that it was suspost to have been unidentifide

The story about that Santa bear was that a Santa Bear was on the crime scene photos and then it just vanished, rather like the flashlight on the kitchen counter.

There was a bit of controversy in the media at the time about all that, which would have been about 1999.

Jameson always said that the Santa bear turned up in Atlanta and it was a prize for a JonBenet pageant. The trouble is Patsy was in disagreement with that particular Jameson theory. Patsy is on record as saying she doesn't think those two Santa bears were one and the same.

This Santa bear matter has been discussed on this topix forum before now:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-rams...

fearless in Antioch wrote:

Moonjack,You need to re read the case, because you don't seem to have the facts correct. The fact is they did take the polygraph test so the police would get off of them, and on to the real killer.(They past those tests by the way.) They only stopped when they were told by their lawyer to stop. Where do you think the DNA came from ? It was not from any one in that family.
There was another young girl in that area, who survived an intruder in her bedroom. I believe that was the same man who killed JBR.
The Ramsey's were a family who loved all of their children, and took very good care of them.
When parents end up killing their children,there are years of abuse on all of the children. They are mostly low life people, who are into drugs or heavy drinking. Not upstanding people like the Ramsey's .Perhaps I feel this way because I am a parent, and you may not be ? Or you yourself had a bad childhood ?

JonBenet won the santa bear as a prize in a beauty pageant. Patsy suffered from "Chemo Brain" and had a hard time remembering small details.

IOW she had diminished responsibility due to brain damage?