Stan Garnett on the Peter Boyles show next week

candy wrote:

I don't know anything about how a garotte kills except someone is yanking on the stick, and the noose gets tighter and tighter around the victim's neck.

Exactly wrong. A noose is for hanging, a garrote is for strangling. A gibbet is for display after execution.

The neck ligature was a suspension device to pose the body in display for a viewing by Patsy after JonBenet was killed by the head blow.

The term garrote should never have been used in conjunction with JonBenet's death. She was strangled, plain and simple. Both Smit and John Ramsey were eager to get that term used exclusively. They also liked it to be known as a sophisticated killing device, it was everything but unless you include the unique feature it could be used by two people at once.

A garrote kills by snapping the spinal cord and death ensues in a drawn out lingering process. That's why it has the association as a device of torture. Death can take hours or days. The vicitm is paralyzed depending on where the damage occurs. Some can breath and they generally survive longer. Think of any common spinal cord injury.

Death by asphyxiation is a different modality and death occurs within minutes. JonBenet's autopsy showed no damage to the spinal cord. The delicate structures of the neck are also telling she was strangled and not hung. Hundreds of thousands of autopsies have been performed on victims with these 3 causes of death; strangulation, hanging, and garroting; and there is distinct trauma unique to each.

pinker wrote:

The delicate structures of the neck are also telling she was strangled and not hung.

Source that please.

Hi All,

Happy New Year. Hope you are all well and enjoying health and happiness.

Decided to spend a few hours catching up on the case since I've neglected it for a year or so and must say that I am delighted to see a resurgence of interest and some official and media attention being paid to the case. I hope that Garnett throws us a proper bone and that there are serious developments in the coming months. I'm so proud and impressed with those of you who push this case every day - I'm sure a recording angel is putting little marks in your credit columns for all your hard work.

Separately, a glance at the last few pages of threads shows odd splashes of psychosis. On this subject, what happened to CSI/Gabrielle and where is Jameson?

Anyway, much love.

Heloisexxx

PS. I sort of recall (but may be wrong) that the autopsy suggested minimal damage to neck (eg. hyoid bone not broken). At one point, I think this was thought of as suggesting a child's involvement since children classically don't use the excessive force that an adult would use while asphixiating a child.

PPS. Regarding the 'garrote,' Delmar England's treatise on the physics of the kont and the obviously staging of the ligature is always worth a read.

I'd actually contend that IDI's consistent references to a 'garotte' is one of the most significant bits of misdirection in this case.

The most significant misdirection is the notion that there was staging for police.

BrotherMoon wrote:

The most significant misdirection is the notion that there was staging for police.

Hmm. Dunno, BM: the method of killing by garrote suggests a cruelty that people refuse to attribute to parents. I believe that Douglas was the worst for perpetuating the garrote myth by talking about how unlikely it was that a parent could twist a garrote and look at a child's face to make sure she was dead). The term 'garrote' is an outright lie that has been lapped up by IDI.

I appreciate your view about the cover-up but surely that's more interpretive?

Anyway, happy new year. Good to see you still fighting the good fight.

Heloise wrote:

Hi All,
Happy New Year. Hope you are all well and enjoying health and happiness.
....Separately, a glance at the last few pages of threads shows odd splashes of psychosis. On this subject, what happened to CSI/Gabrielle and where is Jameson?
Anyway, much love.
Heloisexxx

Happy New Year to you too Heloise and hope you are enjoying health and happiness as well

Odd splashes of psychosis? LOL, that is very kind of you. They are more like big waves :)

I won't speak to what happened to Jameson, but CSI/Gabrielle is still very much here and posting under various hats

Heloise wrote:

<quoted text>
I appreciate your view about the cover-up but surely that's more interpretive?

There are a number of oddities in what was done to the body that are written off as due to amateurism or panic or desparation that can be explained consistently by the deliberate theory:

If there was staging how was LE supposed to interpret;
1. the handle
2. the length of cord from the neck loop to the handle
3. the length of cord between the wrist loops
4. the cord tied lighty over the shirt on the arms compared to the severity of the cord application to the neck
5. the two hair pigtails
6. the cleaning of the body followed by the redressing with soiled clothes
7. the oversized panties over the leggings
8. the wrapping of the body in a blanket
9. the lightly applied duct tape
10. the repertition of white, the white shirt, white panties, white leggings, white blanket, white cord

1. Any type of strangulation device would have worked; a simple cord, rope, scarf, anything whether it had a source in the house or out of it would have sufficed. The inclusion of the handle is an extra effort to add an exclamation to the police according to the accident/cover-up theory: this is what criminals do cops, get it already?

When in fact the handle is best described as having a practical and real function; an aid to suspension after death, iow a gibbet. And a gibbet is part of The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie.

2. A handle closer to the neck loop would be easier to work than one 15" away. Again, bad design because of lack of criminal knowledge? No, if the handle is pulled up behind the head it clears it suggesting again a real function; suspension and another match to the description of a gibbet. The handle could have been placed between to pipes or protruding objects or even one end in a hole and one end of the brush handle was missing.

3. The wrist ligatures as constructed and applied would not have resticted the movement of a living person. 17" between the loops would allow the person to move almost completely unhindered. Again, bad design by a non-criminal? No, if the handle was placed in a holder and the wrist cord placed over the same holder it would raise the arms to the exact position they were found in suggesting posing and suspension, another match to a gibbet and a match also to many murders; posing of the body/object for reasons known only to the murderer.

A also there are repeating themes here common to other aspects of the crime; the raising of arms and the Psalms. The sisters did that together apon meeting along with chanting Psalms. Here again the deliberate theory is consistent and matches psychology texts and crime texts: repeating behavior patterns are key to profiling and investigation and psychological diagnosis.

4. Again, function explains this disparity. The deep furrow caused by the neck ligature is not caused by a demonstration to police that this is what strangulation looks like. A slight application would have sufficed. And the bruising below the neck loop suggests a more complex attempt to affect that area for reasons other than a message to cops. The deep furrow is due to the need to secure the loop to the neck for suspension. It is not due to hanging as the cord was probably pulled tight before the suspension. The lower brusing suggests a learning curve occured.

5. This was done contrary to what was usually done for sleeping. Again, because criminals do this? No, because the hair was moved out of the way to aid the application of the ligatures and the suspension. Consistency and function are a part of the deliberate theory.

6. If one wants to clean why put the filth back on that one just cleaned off? The answer is the white long Johns were important because of their whiteness even though they were filthy . A criminal would not do this but a person directed by symbolic imagery would.

7. How can the extra effort to find the package and remove a specific article that just happened to be the same day of the week that Christmas was on be interpreted as the act of a criminal? Again is this an attmept to tell cops this is what criminals do? Where did the stager get that idea, crime books? Is that supposed to look like a message from a Zodiac type, a Jack the Ripper type taunting police? No, again it is an act of symbolism that was important to the perp: it ties the day of the week to the holiday solidifying the notion for the perp that JonBenet died on the 25th not the 26th which may well have been the actual time of death.

This is also consistent with the headstone having the same date. There was a need for this symbolic connection that was supplied by numbers and dates, something that also shows up in the ransom note. Again consistency and function are part of the deliberate theory.

8. How is this supposed to look like the act of a criminal? Is this an act of love that a mother just could not refuse to give a child even in the midst of sending messages to cops? No, the wrapping is consistent not only with the theme of white but also with the theme of entombment where an alb is placed over the body before being placed in the tomb, more symbolism. Again, consistency and function not randomness, amateurism or panic.

9. Criminals put duct tape over the mouth so that the mouth cannot move just like they put wrist bindings so that arms do not move. Bad staging because of a lack of criminal nature inconsistent with the severity of the neck ligature? No, likely this was the last act by Patsy after placing the body in the small room setting up her next dramatic scene; the kidnapping. The duct tape did not have to influence cops it only had to serve Patsy.

10. The proponderance of coincidence rules out coincidence. White is a well known symbol of death in many religions and is used for burials. Symbolism, function and consistency are a part of the deliberate theory as opposed to the randomness, amateurism, panic and desperation of the accident cover-up theory.