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battista
Troy, MI
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Lily, "The Dark Minds program left out a whole lot of pertinent information. Weather for the sake of using the time to show clowns who never existed in this case or because they didn’t get it." This is hilarious...Yet sad but true.
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Helen Dagner
Petoskey, MI
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MANNY-Who hides under a screen name-lol--So you think I " need to mend some fences with the family here""" Now I know you are a Lunatic....That was a good one Manny...Now take your meds and get some rest...as you sure as hell need it-maybe it well help you to clear that nasty mind of yours...it would not surprise me to find out you are family -certainly you are cut from the same cloth-lol-what amazes me-is your not only a moron -who thinks your clever-lol you believe your own BS!-Why is it that when you run a cross some one like you-who has no knowledge and they are trying to fake it...they always sound just like you-just like Terri-just like Les-Just like Cww-Yep Terri waited so long for my obit-that it put her-right over the edge-and she was the crusader-of all that was dumb-stupid and ignorant-malicious-and down right dirty-so you came to take her place hey? Well good luck with that mission-I also like the way you tried -like others before you to project your thoughts to me-the fact is Manny -I have not bitten any one in at least 7 mos-sooo there!!
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Manny
Utica, MI
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Helen Dagner wrote: MANNY-Who hides under a screen name-lol--So you think I " need to mend some fences with the family here""" Now I know you are a Lunatic....That was a good one Manny...Now take your meds and get some rest...as you sure as hell need it-maybe it well help you to clear that nasty mind of yours...it would not surprise me to find out you are family -certainly you are cut from the same cloth-lol-what amazes me-is your not only a moron -who thinks your clever-lol you believe your own BS!-Why is it that when you run a cross some one like you-who has no knowledge and they are trying to fake it...they always sound just like you-just like Terri-just like Les-Just like Cww-Yep Terri waited so long for my obit-that it put her-right over the edge-and she was the crusader-of all that was dumb-stupid and ignorant-malicious-and down right dirty-so you came to take her place hey? Well good luck with that mission-I also like the way you tried -like others before you to project your thoughts to me-the fact is Manny -I have not bitten any one in at least 7 mos-sooo there!! Please don't mistake me for someone who even cares who you think I am or what you think of me. If you want to shine in a wave of wacko glory, more power to you. I just don't care. Just makes you look bad when people look into the case, that's all I'm sayng. You need a PR rep and and an editor. Unlike others who have come before, I won't waste anymore time on you as you are not my interest, your more like a side note in this case. Good luck to you Helen. I hope you find your smoking gun and manage to put a killer behind bars, until then.
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Reasoning
Sterling Heights, MI
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battista wrote: Lily,
"The Dark Minds program left out a whole lot of pertinent information. Weather for the sake of using the time to show clowns who never existed in this case or because they didn’t get it."
This is hilarious...Yet sad but true. What I find ironic about the show was that they would show a picture of the actual suicide scene which shows no blood anywhere on the bed. Then they show a dramatization with blood all over the bed. Then they show a picture of the actual ropes which appeared to have no blood then they would show a dramatization of the ropes with blood all over them. I actually find this worse then the stupid clowns. The show is presented in such a way like never mind with any facts about this case their minds are already made up. You would think anyone that saw the actual pictures and then the dramatization would have to really wonder what was the purpose.
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Lilly
Denver, CO
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Judged:
2
1
Reasoning wrote: <quoted text>
What I find ironic about the show was that they would show a picture of the actual suicide scene which shows no blood anywhere on the bed. Then they show a dramatization with blood all over the bed. Then they show a picture of the actual ropes which appeared to have no blood then they would show a dramatization of the ropes with blood all over them. I actually find this worse then the stupid clowns. The show is presented in such a way like never mind with any facts about this case their minds are already made up. You would think anyone that saw the actual pictures and then the dramatization would have to really wonder what was the purpose. We were warned by Keeper that it was feel bad TV. But I have to say that my hope for anyone coming forward or jogging a long lost memory was dashed between Phelps’ Drive-ins Dinners and Dives for serial killers sensationalism and his seeming lack of understanding of even the chronology of the case. He said or showed nothing that many of us didn’t already know and yet I was totally confused as to where he was going with it. Or what he was talking about. He was all over the place and I am not talking about his hair.
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TruthDude
Chino Hills, CA
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EnoughAlready wrote: Manny,
It wasn't in answer to Busch, but your questions regarding why there isn't a law suit against Helen. He didn't complete his poly, instead he got angry, ripped off the wires and walked out.
As for your questions regarding Busch, maybe someone in that camp can answer your questions better because I don't know. Manny and Enough Already, Many people believe that in filing a lawsuit that Attorneys work on contingency in such cases, but it is not true. My experience has been that they only do so in large class action lawsuits, or in personal injury ones. I think JH as a driver, is in no financial position to fund legal counsel for this against Helen, and such an Attorney would ask the logical question of "What does she have" if they were to win a judgement ? Therefore, such a perspective lawsuit would not make sense to an Attorney unless Helen's website was insured or she had real property, or otherwise attatchable assettes. This has nothing to do with Helen personaly that I am writing here, as I don't know her personal life situation; and it is rather a general comment about the costs of a client seeking legal representation and the mindset of lawyers who sue on behalf of others. For me the larger question was why has or did JH STOP killing after arriving in Georgia or elsewhere along the way getting there. A TRUE seriel killer does not stop in perpetuam, or have there been any child murders in Georgia within reasonable distance from where he lives, works, drives, etc. Not sure. Further, if he had been ritualistically motivated to kill; why not Helen as the same mindset (if NOT sexual) goes into elder killing as perhaps in child killing; as weaker targets to be exploited. I remain open as to any involvement he may have had, but I must say not many could withstand all the attention Helen put on him in the era of the internet; and it had to cross his mind to come after her, but let's be greatful he did not try and carry that out !!!!:)
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Manny
Utica, MI
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From the Detroit News... "Other children molested by Busch and his companion Gregory Greene told the Oakland County Child Killings Task Force in 1977 that the two men would drive them around in their cars and would have them "lure kids closer to the car by talking to them." One victim said he had been choked unconscious while being molested. This victim also said he recognized photos of Timothy as being the same boy seen with Busch. He said he saw a Polaroid photo of Timothy tied up in Busch's car." "In an Oakland County Child Killing Task Force interview about his pedophile activity, Busch is said to have listed the locations where he picked up and dropped off boys in the same chronological order that matched the abduction sites of the other three Oakland County children who were killed: Nine Mile and Woodward Avenue in Ferndale (the same location from which Mark Stebbins disappeared), 13 Mile and Woodward in Royal Oak (Jill Robinson was last seen near the Tiny Tim Hobby Center) and the 7-Eleven on 12 Mile in Berkley (where Kristine Mihelich went to purchase a teen magazine)." http://detnews.com/article/20101228/METRO02/1...
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Lilly
Denver, CO
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Truth Dude, In my post 8847 I was not slamming you. I hope you know that. I really would like your take on those observations. I am open to debate and communications. My points feel valid. If there is another way to see what I was saying, I would like suggestions. Thanks
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Notles
Warren, MI
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Judged:
1
1
Reasoning wrote: <quoted text>
Then they show a picture of the actual ropes which appeared to have no blood then they would show a dramatization of the ropes with blood all over them.
I actually find this worse then the stupid clowns. The show is presented in such a way like never mind with any facts about this case their minds are already made up. You would think anyone that saw the actual pictures and then the dramatization would have to really wonder what was the purpose. I was creeped our by the rich bright color of the stains on the ropes. I did not realize it was a dramatization but now that you mention it the photos certainly were not that graphic. Thanks for pointing tht out. I think it is safe to say that the police checked out the ropes, especially since they called in the OCCK task force to look over the scene and Busch was already a suspect. Back in those days they could not match DNA but they could match victims to a blood type. I felt the clown touch was a distraction and misleading. That program was nationally televised and now they some that think the OCCK stalked his victims in a clown suit and some will think the case is linked to John Gacy. That should bring a thousand new tips. They sensationalized Chris Busch but they never mentioned that there was a eye witness that placed Tim King with Chris Busch. I really don’t know what to make of that. Why is the eye witness thing being hardly mentioned? Is there some doubt involved?
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Manny
Utica, MI
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TruthDude wrote: <quoted text>
Manny and Enough Already,
Many people believe that in filing a lawsuit that Attorneys work on contingency in such cases, but it is not true. My experience has been that they only do so in large class action lawsuits, or in personal injury ones. I think JH as a driver, is in no financial position to fund legal counsel for this against Helen, and such an Attorney would ask the logical question of "What does she have" if they were to win a judgement ? Therefore, such a perspective lawsuit would not make sense to an Attorney unless Helen's website was insured or she had real property, or otherwise attatchable assettes. This has nothing to do with Helen personaly that I am writing here, as I don't know her personal life situation; and it is rather a general comment about the costs of a client seeking legal representation and the mindset of lawyers who sue on behalf of others.
For me the larger question was why has or did JH STOP killing after arriving in Georgia or elsewhere along the way getting there. A TRUE seriel killer does not stop in perpetuam, or have there been any child murders in Georgia within reasonable distance from where he lives, works, drives, etc. Not sure. Further, if he had been ritualistically motivated to kill; why not Helen as the same mindset (if NOT sexual) goes into elder killing as perhaps in child killing; as weaker targets to be exploited. I remain open as to any involvement he may have had, but I must say not many could withstand all the attention Helen put on him in the era of the internet; and it had to cross his mind to come after her, but let's be greatful he did not try and carry that out !!!!:) Yes, you have a point. His name and Helen's are not mainstream, only people who hear the report and spend time looking further into it would find Helen's John,(most people don't), so perhaps it is out of his means and not worth the cost. Still, if you are being questioned in a child serial killing case, being asked to take polygraphs and your family is also being interviewed by police, I just can't imagine not getting an attorney for that. I suppose it is possible he felt he had nothing to hide, but still. And yes, it would be unusual for him to quit killing. The BTK quit, but his ego still didn't allow him to remain quiet. Yes, I worried for Helen's safety as well and briefly entertained the notion she may be the killer, many have speculated it was a woman. It's all quite baffling. Still I think the answer is right under our noses. I wish they would just put all the evidence out there. It's to late in the game to claim they are hot on the trail of a breaking investigation, it's rather pathetic actually. By the way, just to clarify since some allegations about me were made, I'm not presenting myself as an expert. I'm waiting for the books I ordered, I'm nothing more than a person who grew up in the area and remember the police coming to my school and being afraid. My stepfather used the case to scare me more than the average kid. I saw Tim's Father on the news and felt he shouldn't be going through all of this all of these years later and I started reading. I'm just interested, I don't want to do battle or be somebody special.
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Helen Dagner
Petoskey, MI
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I know this is a waste of my time-However Since Patrick and others have continually brought up John suing me---and altho -Patrick gave a good explanation-You mite want to think about this-John's sister worked a very long time for a famous Lawyer in Southfield-She is also a very Brilliant person who most likely belongs to Mensa-I am sure she has discussed this with John as to what do I have-This family does not have money problems-so do you think it could be something else? Like He has no grounds? This family is smart enough to not just want a big show-also let me explain this-I was sued by a Sheriff from Montmorency County Michigan-for one million dollars during the time of the child killings (I how ever did not know anything about the child murders at that time) and that is because I was kind of busy defending my self in court-I actrualy closed down my newspaper because I had to travel to Petoskey Michigan so much-I was exhausted-The Sheriff sued me the night before his re-election -thinking it would get him re elected-But he lost the election by a land slide-and yes I'm sure I played a part in it-as I was covering a story-where he covered up a murder-..well probably more then one-for people who don't know Montmorency County Michigan has a lot of Mafia-mostly retired-I went through a lot with that case-I had best friends that were Lawyers and Prosecutors-that I had gotten elected -That lied on the Witness stand-But it never made it to a jury-Because The Judge was a really smart guy-when we went in to the Judges chambers-I started to cry-to think all these people had lied...but on the way out my Attorneys and I were the only ones smiling-When you win a Big Law Sued like that on your own merit-trust me their is nothing that would make me fear a law sued on the Occk-
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TruthDude
Chino Hills, CA
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Lilly wrote: <quoted text>
Hi Truth Dude,
You make such good points.
Any thoughts? Lilly, Thank You, as I know you are sincere. In regard to the "Elaborate Ritual" which I think you mean bathing; I have wondered if rather than his bathing them as something he did "to them", if it might rather be perhaps that he did it "With Them" as a part of his fantasy acted out, at least with the boys. When we consider the "dumping" of the bodies we again need to make a break in thought about the cunning of a killer such as an assassin would be who kills efficiently; and rather of a sexual predator, who further endured and perhaps enjoyed the power of killing, but who had not thought it through in regard to the dumping part or stage. I noted #13 stated that he processed the washing, dressing, and posing of the children after their deaths was indicative to him as remorse or regrets / not sure. Remorse is not a quality seriel killers are known for, and it is rather the antithesis of this that makes them kill with planning and ease. I have always felt the posing was due to NOT being carried to any spot, and rather dragged downward out of a vehicle, and wherein the vehicle itself was used for temporary cover, and that they then drove away when the coast was clear. Not sure. In regard to the selection of children in the nicer suburbs, when there was no selection shortage in the Cass Corridor, or other inner city areas; I might lean toward their peceiving caucasian victims as a greater turn on for them, and that if verbal interaction was part of the fantasy then these kids greater ability to have done so vs. someone living a street life, and of lesser in common with the perpetrator's backgrounds. Not sure, just trying to get in their heads from other cases I worked. I concur with your thoughts about the female victims being used in other ways that might not have been picked up in forensics such as oral or even mere hands used on the molestor(s). I further agree with the empowerment the perpetrator(s) must have felt with each successive case, but that this was still second or third to the sexual motivation, and any empowerment from the deaths themselves, and only a third place lower satisfaction of security to continue. In regard to the different leagues of seriel killers, I agree that one who seeks anatomically mature victims is a different animal than one who seeks out children, and even a known serial killer is repulsed by that thought. I found it interesting that he placed the phrase "Remorse" or "Regret" in his explanation of that, when it is the trait of least abudance for a bona fide serial killer such as #13 is said or known to be. If I were to speculate as to why they made sure the victims would be discovered by the public vs. put in the woods never to be found; I would say that the sole or primary personality in this did have some religeous background wherein he needed to "see" a funeral to feel they were in the hands of God, or otherwise being cared for. Perhaps their own treatment as garbage as a child would not permit their being "Thrown Away" and rather their last existance was being loved which the perpetrator craved for themseles as a child. Not sure, just a thought.
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Manny
Utica, MI
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Helen Dagner wrote: I know this is a waste of my time-However Since Patrick and others have continually brought up John suing me---and altho -Patrick gave a good explanation-You mite want to think about this-John's sister worked a very long time for a famous Lawyer in Southfield-She is also a very Brilliant person who most likely belongs to Mensa-I am sure she has discussed this with John as to what do I have-This family does not have money problems-so do you think it could be something else? Like He has no grounds? This family is smart enough to not just want a big show-also let me explain this-I was sued by a Sheriff from Montmorency County Michigan-for one million dollars during the time of the child killings (I how ever did not know anything about the child murders at that time) and that is because I was kind of busy defending my self in court-I actrualy closed down my newspaper because I had to travel to Petoskey Michigan so much-I was exhausted-The Sheriff sued me the night before his re-election -thinking it would get him re elected-But he lost the election by a land slide-and yes I'm sure I played a part in it-as I was covering a story-where he covered up a murder-..well probably more then one-for people who don't know Montmorency County Michigan has a lot of Mafia-mostly retired-I went through a lot with that case-I had best friends that were Lawyers and Prosecutors-that I had gotten elected -That lied on the Witness stand-But it never made it to a jury-Because The Judge was a really smart guy-when we went in to the Judges chambers-I started to cry-to think all these people had lied...but on the way out my Attorneys and I were the only ones smiling-When you win a Big Law Sued like that on your own merit-trust me their is nothing that would make me fear a law sued on the Occk- So if John has a great deal of financial support, why not get an attorney when he is being questioned and polygraphed by police as to whether or not he is a serial child killer? And why is he a limo driver in GA? He's not a young man, shouldn't he be retired?
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Manny
Utica, MI
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TruthDude wrote: <quoted text>
Lilly,
Thank You, as I know you are sincere. In regard to the "Elaborate Ritual" which I think you mean bathing; I have wondered if rather than his bathing them as something he did "to them", if it might rather be perhaps that he did it "With Them" as a part of his fantasy acted out, at least with the boys.
When we consider the "dumping" of the bodies we again need to make a break in thought about the cunning of a killer such as an assassin would be who kills efficiently; and rather of a sexual predator, who further endured and perhaps enjoyed the power of killing, but who had not thought it through in regard to the dumping part or stage. I noted #13 stated that he processed the washing, dressing, and posing of the children after their deaths was indicative to him as remorse or regrets / not sure. Remorse is not a quality seriel killers are known for, and it is rather the antithesis of this that makes them kill with planning and ease. I have always felt the posing was due to NOT being carried to any spot, and rather dragged downward out of a vehicle, and wherein the vehicle itself was used for temporary cover, and that they then drove away when the coast was clear. Not sure.
In regard to the selection of children in the nicer suburbs, when there was no selection shortage in the Cass Corridor, or other inner city areas; I might lean toward their peceiving caucasian victims as a greater turn on for them, and that if verbal interaction was part of the fantasy then these kids greater ability to have done so vs. someone living a street life, and of lesser in common with the perpetrator's backgrounds. Not sure, just trying to get in their heads from other cases I worked.
I concur with your thoughts about the female victims being used in other ways that might not have been picked up in forensics such as oral or even mere hands used on the molestor(s). I further agree with the empowerment the perpetrator(s) must have felt with each successive case, but that this was still second or third to the sexual motivation, and any empowerment from the deaths themselves, and only a third place lower satisfaction of security to continue. In regard to the different leagues of seriel killers, I agree that one who seeks anatomically mature victims is a different animal than one who seeks out children, and even a known serial killer is repulsed by that thought. I found it interesting that he placed the phrase "Remorse" or "Regret" in his explanation of that, when it is the trait of least abudance for a bona fide serial killer such as #13 is said or known to be.
If I were to speculate as to why they made sure the victims would be discovered by the public vs. put in the woods never to be found; I would say that the sole or primary personality in this did have some religeous background wherein he needed to "see" a funeral to feel they were in the hands of God, or otherwise being cared for. Perhaps their own treatment as garbage as a child would not permit their being "Thrown Away" and rather their last existance was being loved which the perpetrator craved for themseles as a child. Not sure, just a thought. Maybe he bathed them just to get rid of evidence rather than it being part of a ritual. Just a thought.
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Helen Dagner
Petoskey, MI
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You know that you are so far off base-none of you are showing any reasoning-Nothing you have said-matches the known facts of these cases- How about this-How come they Interview the Dr. that did Tim's Autopsy at length and ended up-not using his footage-I can answer that-It wouldn't go along with there sexual Predator killer theory-as he made it very clear-that what they wanted him to say he wasn't going to-Because there was no truth to it--and there is more-but I will save that for another post-I never have seen so many people -know so little about something-and then want to talk about it like it is fact-good thing only the posters read here-or you would be guilty -big time of misleading--and this is exactly why the police don't let all the Occk Info out to the public- If they did wouldn't that turn in to a Hoot-lol-I shutter to even think about it-
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Helen Dagner
Petoskey, MI
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Judged:
1
Manny are you sure that you never worked on the Mark Stebbins case against Ted Lamborgine-because you sure sound like the attorney that worked on that case-That was another one of Cory's ideas -I really think it would give you some in site on what is going on right now in the Busch case...I mean you should see how horrible they had Ted being to Mark-when he was the Occk- The Law Office that handle this-Mr King worked for and may even be a partner...
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Lilly
Denver, CO
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Judged:
1
CC CHANGSTEIN wrote: FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi All-righty then... The Dark Minds episode has brought the nut-bags and whack-jobs out of the woodwork. CC Chang-off it is past your bedtime.
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TruthDude
Chino Hills, CA
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CC CHANGSTEIN wrote: FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbiFBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbiFBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
PIG FBI GOOD POINT !!!, I feel that MAYBE IF THE FBI HAD TAKEN JURISDICTION IN THE FIRST PLACE WE COULD HAVE HOPED FOR A FIRST RATE JOB, INSTEAD OF SOME MINOR LEAGUERS, BUT WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS.
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Justice Denied
Hockley, TX
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Unfortunately the FBI has been involved over the last 5 plus years at least, if not several more, and one can only question the value they have added to the MSP investigation. Hopefully we will see the FBI take some ownership of this fiasco.
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Notles
Warren, MI
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CC CHANGSTEIN wrote: FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi
FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi FBI fbi Silence everyone, Lassie is trying to tell us something.
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