JonBenet's dolls

Funny I put in something totally different whilst searching for F I think and I got MyTwinn doll in Troona Ca? I think it's Troona. Just thought - weird!

It was, and remains John and Patsy Ramsey's failure to take responsibility for the death of JonBenet in whatever horrid example of domestic disturbance occured the evening of 12/25/1996 that has caused others to be unduly accused.

Leroy is attempting to sue the wrong person. It is John Ramsey's fault fingers have been pointed at others.

It was John Ramsey who had Pam Paugh remove evidence from the crime scene.

It was John Ramsey who stonewalled behind attorneys and refused to help the police in the investigation of the crime.

It is John Ramsey who has hurt Rod Westmoreland just as he hurt others.

Com'on Leroy, ask John Ramsey about JonBenet's dolls.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44

jahazafat wrote:

This case will errupt like a festering boil if one bonafide, respected journalist asks any of the mentioned; John Ramsey, Alex Hunter, Lou Smit, Mary Lacy, or even Pam Paugh about the dolls removed from the crime scene.
Who physically wrote or composed the list of items for Pam Paugh to remove?
Was it dictated, if yes by whom?
What happened to the actual physical list?
Was anybody else in on making up this list?
Who else knew about the list?
Who was present when the list was being written?
Who was present when the list was given to Pam Paugh?
Did the Ramsey's attorneys know about the list?
How did the DA's office approve of the list, who was the front man?
What was the DA's office told would be removed?
Were they aware specifically dolls were to be removed?
Who gave Pam Paugh the police jacket to wear on 12/28?
Who gave Pam Paugh a badge to wear, who's badge was it?
Were they handed out separately?
Who specifically wanted the American Girl dolls removed?
Was Pam Paugh told exactly where everything was?
Where were the dolls located in the house?
What happened to the dolls, where are they now?
What happened to the doll delivered to Access Graphics in early January 1997?
Where is that doll now?
Was this identical doll, shipped to a dead kid; reported to authorities?
Was the original doll then handed over to be forensically inspected?
What transpired when she returned with the items?
How did they divvy up the items removed?
Who wanted what, who did she hand the things over to?
What did the Ramseys ask her about when she got back?
Did anyone from the DA's office or Ramsey attorneys ask about this visit?
?

Excellent post, Pinker!! I, too, would very much like to hear the answers to those questions. Thanks for your post.

Was the identical doll received at Access Graphics the first week in January 1997 reported to authorities so the original could be forensically inspected? That's what it boils down to.

In a nutshell... The Boulder DA allowed John and Patsy Ramsey access to the crime scene to remove anything they wished. Patsy's sister went in the house on 12/28 and innocently enough sounding, removed JonBenet's American Girl dolls.

The company did train employees to tell customers to use a piece of duct tape on the doll if brushing the hair was a problem. Did the piece found on JonBenet come off the doll? The Ramseys claim no association with the tape and rely on it as proof of an intruder.

There's sure to be a rash of interest and interviews with the ten-year anniversary so hopefully just one person will slip in a question about the doll removed from the scene and the one sent to John Ramsey's office a week later.

Every penny Colorado has spent on this ridiculous conspiracy, on this hoax of an investigation, should be repaid by the Ramseys and spent on the children in Colorado who have survived abuse.

jahazafat, For the most part, you & I are on the same page with this case. A lot of your posts look like I wrote them myself!! I have often said the exact same things about the dolls, the painting & Aunt Pam. Do you have a theory posted somewhere already that I can read? I'd love to hear your opinions of the murder scenerio, & who you think committed the actual act of murder.

I have no solid theory what actually transpired. I think there are two people left alive who do...

I guess and sumize whatever did happen was an accident. JonBenet was either accidently bopped on the head by Burke or dragged upstairs by Patsy and accidently strangled. By accidently, I mean it was normal enough sibling fighting or forceful actions by Patsy just never intened to be fatal.

If Burke didn't do this he has been used as a scapegoat by his parents and blamed to evade prosecution by same. If the parents did it they may have paid money to the DA circumvent justice. This is where I tend to lean since the Karr fiasco.

What I do know are facts about these specific dolls and the DA has never followed up to find answers to very legitimate questions.

I do believe there has been a conspiracy in the DA's office to cover up the truth about JonBenet.

http://www.geocites.com/pinker44

Wasn't the actual tape tested, and brand found, plus time of manufacture done.(something to do with glue used re that batch ?) I am sure I read this on one of these forums..plus the time frame from actual date of manufacture of that batch and location of manufacturer/dispatcher...till the time this particular tape was used is not long, a month or two from memory ?...
hopefully someone else knows where this was located..I will check though..

This is correct. the tape was manufactured and distributed in Nov 1996. Nedra bought JonBenet a Molly doll in September of 1996 and the next time she saw her was Thanksgiving 1996. Did she give it to her then? That and many other questions would have been investigated if the DA had any interest in catching this baby killer.

I can only sumize the tape was purchased in Atlanta and applied in Atlanta and the reamining roll was left in Atlanta. Atlanta is a far bigger market than Boulder for this unique tape.

The police investigated the tape and it is odd tape. Black cloth, black duct tape. Also very cheaply manufactured with adhesive that is gunkie. It stays behind on what it is applied to.

It would have stained the doll.

jahazafat wrote:

I have no solid theory what actually transpired.

Then why are you so sure about who's guilty? Why do you think the Ramsey's are so important that an entire LE agency would cover up for them? Or maybe their not covering up just for them.

It has not, never has been, and likely never will be, a 'right' of the prime suspects in a murder to remove anything from the crime scene. Do you understand how ridiclulous the concept is?

The dolls involvement is far to big of a coincidence. The fibers, the duct tape, assorted hairs, the replacement doll... The parents actively removed these dolls, and passively failed to notify police another was received.

If the invesigation was an honest affair they would have seized the records and embarked down the trail wherever it would have lead...

I believe the DA's office did look into this information.

Leroy Wood and mame are not reliable sources. And I do not for one minute believe the DA's office was in contact with you regarding this matter. Somebody may have told you that but it's not necessarily the truth.

There has never been a word uttered in the investigation about these dolls... never a test documented... never a single question...

The computer files in question were never seized. A code was left anytime they were opened. It's not rocket science.

joejam wrote:

it has always struck me as odd that ol' fleet went back down in to the "wine room" and picked up the tape and put it back down. He was wondering how it got there.....he didn't do it or see it done.

Yes, that is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of in my life.

Jahazafat, are you familiar with Blue Crab's theory?

I think your research and knowledge PLUS Blue Crabb's research and knowledge=====THIS CASE HAS BEEN SOLVED, but some details need to be cleared up as to exactly who was in the house when JonBenet died.

You will not get answers to your questions about the dolls--you will get SPIN, SPIN, SPIN. When the truth is, a l2 year old could come up with the fact that something is BAD WRONG about the doll situation. It makes absolutely no sense that a thorough investigation into the doll situation has not been done!!

You make way too much sense, Jahazafat. Way too much sense for SOME people, that is. Please keep posting your theory.

jahazafat wrote:

Leroy Wood and mame are not reliable sources. And I do not for one minute believe the DA's office was in contact with you regarding this matter. Somebody may have told you that but it's not necessarily the truth.
There has never been a word uttered in the investigation about these dolls... never a test documented... never a single question...
The computer files in question were never seized. A code was left anytime they were opened. It's not rocket science.

I must admit I have had difficulty all along with posters who claim to have inside knowledge from the police in Boulder, the DA's office, etc. It's as if these posters are saying, "Don't anybody bother to check with real law enforcement and officials, because we have got that covered." EGO? I thought so for a long time, but now I have other ideas as to why these posters are making false claims.

As you said, It's not rocket science.

can you sum up bluecrab's theory...in a nutshell, without taking away from what he has said...or where can i read about it?

BlueCrab has been posting on the JonBenet forums for years. There used to be several of his postings on Jameson's archives, and in Tricia's Websleuths.

He tends to be a bit like jahazafat, with rather strange and fixated beliefs about the Ramsey case, and dare I say rather humorless.

Some of his rather strange beliefs, to my mind, are that he thinks John Ramsey made midnight calls to his lawyer, that John Ramsey moved the JonBenet body to the wine cellar, and it wasn't there when Fleet opened the death room door at 6am. BlueCrab thinks there is a conspiracy in Colorado not to prosecute Burke because he was a minor at the time of the murder.

He tends to have this former student at CU university Nathan Inouye, oe whatever his name is, on his brain as a suspect. Nathan lived with the Stines when he was in Boulder. The trouble with that theory is that Nathan was at home with his parents in Santa Barbara, California on student Christmas vacation when JonBenet was murdered as far as I know.

I have had my disagreements with Bluecrab in the past. I had a discussion with him on the internet, with others, about whether John Ramsey was telling the truth about breaking the basement window months before the JonBenet murder, when he didn't have his house key with him.

BlueCrab seems quite knowledgeable about the Ramsey case. It's just to my mind he has strange theories without facts. You go by the evidence in a murder investigation, not by what could have happened.

This is a quote from BlueCrab, and his theory in a nutshell:

"My theory is that Burke accidentally killed JonBenet and the parents have been covering it up. I can support that theory with facts."

The information about JonBenet's dolls are facts, simple truths; not intricate contrived theories. Theories for what happened are a dime a dozen and of little signifcance. There are those who can't comprehend simple information. There are people that don't want to believe these truths and look the other way. There are those that even go out of their way to try to alter the facts or make them complicated.

Fact is the Boulder Colorado DA's office gave the Ramseys carte blanche access to the crime scene to remove anything they wished.

1.) They removed JonBenet's American Girl dolls.

2.) The company at one time trained employees to tell customers to apply duct tape to the dolls if there was trouble brushing the hair and it getting tangled into the neck strings.

3.) The tape on little JonBenet's mouth was the right size to have been on the doll. Dr. Henry Lee stresses it was a used piece of tape.

4.) The tape was coated in fibers with a descriptive match had it been on a doll. The dolls have tan cotton bodies with white polyester stuffing. A few rare dolls have white cotton bodies.

5.) JonBenet's little dead body and her clothing were coated in dark fibers descriptively matching the dolls. Molly's skirt is navy wool and Samantha wears black cotton tights.

6.) A new doll was ordered and delivered to John Ramsey's office after JonBenet was dead.

7.) The Boulder DA has known about the doll's connections to the death since 1999 and there's no evidence they've done any investigation.

Evidence doesn't lie, people do. Dead children don't play with dolls. The evidence will always speak for itself... Hopefully one day it will speak for JonBenet.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44

This thread is a complete smoke screen... You can't make a case with something YOU say it is evidence, It was never tested, never entered into evidence and nobody even knows where the original is..... How does that make sense to y'all???? Because you think the Ramsey's are guilty it makes sense right????? But what if they aren't... Did the killer play with the dolls????

jahazafat: you never answered my question about the dark blue cotton towel like fibers that were found in her pubic region either.... DO the dolls have those kinds of fibers????? Because if not then the doll is NOT the source for the dark blue fibers... like you say it is...

I'm so glad your friends could come and join us.... Apparently, SOME people have no idea what making sense means to a murder investigation......... It is not evidence if it can't be proven and you can't prove it without the original doll being collected at the original crime scene by forensics..... Does that make sense?????

Come on RDI's I keep asking for the one theory that supports all the evidence that points to the Ramsey's, but none of you ever answer that.... Use all the evidence, not just what you think points to the Ramsey's and tell us how it happened...... Because, I'm beginning to think that none of you can.... We all want to know what happened you know... Please tell us....

jahazafat wrote:

The information about JonBenet's dolls are facts, simple truths; not intricate contrived theories. Theories for what happened are a dime a dozen and of little signifcance. There are those who can't comprehend simple information. There are people that don't want to believe these truths and look the other way. There are those that even go out of their way to try to alter the facts or make them complicated.
Fact is the Boulder Colorado DA's office gave the Ramseys carte blanche access to the crime scene to remove anything they wished.
1.) They removed JonBenet's American Girl dolls.
2.) The company at one time trained employees to tell customers to apply duct tape to the dolls if there was trouble brushing the hair and it getting tangled into the neck strings.
3.) The tape on little JonBenet's mouth was the right size to have been on the doll. Dr. Henry Lee stresses it was a used piece of tape.
4.) The tape was coated in fibers with a descriptive match had it been on a doll. The dolls have tan cotton bodies with white polyester stuffing. A few rare dolls have white cotton bodies.
5.) JonBenet's little dead body and her clothing were coated in dark fibers descriptively matching the dolls. Molly's skirt is navy wool and Samantha wears black cotton tights.
6.) A new doll was ordered and delivered to John Ramsey's office after JonBenet was dead.
7.) The Boulder DA has known about the doll's connections to the death since 1999 and there's no evidence they've done any investigation.
Evidence doesn't lie, people do. Dead children don't play with dolls. The evidence will always speak for itself... Hopefully one day it will speak for JonBenet.
http://www.geocities.com/pinker44

What you say about these dolls, makes me want to order one just to match your description of what you copied from geocities. Listen, you have made up your mind it seems from the get go that the Ramseys killed their daughter. Until the murderer is found, no amount of anything will convince you otherwise. And vica versa.