John Ramsey and the golf clubs

That's a thought, Candy. But as a N.C. resident who lives near Pinehurst, I can attest there is no such thing as a non-golf season in N.C. and Georgia.

I'm guessing not so much in Michigan, though. Considering they don't know what inflicted the head wound, the golf clubs and what was in should have been checked.

I can't understand how anyone who's daughter had been murdered would even think about asking for their golf bag.That should have been the last thing he thought about. He wanted that golf bag for a reason.,and it wasn't that he wanted to go golfing. imo

Big Bertha wrote:

I can't understand how anyone who's daughter had been murdered would even think about asking for their golf bag.That should have been the last thing he thought about. He wanted that golf bag for a reason.,and it wasn't that he wanted to go golfing. imo

I agree Bertha, and time has proven just that as there have never been more than one sightings of JR on a golf course since the murder. He's no Arnold Palmer, that's for sure.
I think the rag they used to wipe her down was in that bag, and perhaps the underpants she really wore that night.

Now I am where I should have posted my last post,Nelly this is exactly what having money ,and friends in high places means.IMO there are lots of people out there that know what really happened.They will never tell,because they are as guilty as the Ramsey's. I also think this goes as high as you can go in the system. Love to see those phone records,the telephones lines had to be really smoking ,until they got this under their control.jmo

Big Bertha wrote:

Now I am where I should have posted my last post,Nelly this is exactly what having money ,and friends in high places means.IMO there are lots of people out there that know what really happened.They will never tell,because they are as guilty as the Ramsey's. I also think this goes as high as you can go in the system. Love to see those phone records,the telephones lines had to be really smoking ,until they got this under their control.jmo

You hit the nail on the head, girl. The phone records are the one piece of evidence that would tell the whole tale, and darned the luck, they were magically wiped clean and we were told a CEO didn't have ANY calls all December! Uh huh.
I am grateful Lockheed Martin unceremoniously dumped that Fat Cat, at least they recognized poison when they saw it. If we are to believe ANYTHING John Ramsey said after that day, then we'd have to believe L/M hires the handicapped and their defense contract with our government might need review.

Damn shame they couldn't muster up as much concern for their battered and sexually molested daughter as they could for a set of frigging golf clubs.

I know. How weird to think of golf clubs on that day. That is, assuming it's true and ST remembered the correct day JR asked for them, and heard it directly rather than as hearsay from others on the scene that day.

JR may have been thinking that he needed those golf clubs as an excuse to get away from Nedra and Patsy for several hours.

I don't think the Ramseys pimped out their kid. My guess is that if this happened by rage or accident - and if another Ramsey friend was compromised in this, having helped them cover up the crime - then this is the person that the higher-ups were protecting, and not JR. He was a relative newbie in Boulder. Rich people can move into a city and immediately have the most influential friends in town as their new best friends, but these aren't the kind of friends who will lay down in front of a train for you and take a serious hit for you. Shallow friends could have known JR well enough to protect him, a person who might or might not be the worst in their imaginations. They would have cut their losses quickly, and avoided him.

Unless the law firm had tons of crap on the prosecutor's office, and the office was a puppet for the firm (one explanation) then I suggest looking around to see if there was someone who isn't the killer, perhaps, but who helped in the staging which, it turned out, was the actual cause of death. That kind of changed things, I would think, if the staging occurred with help and it turned out the "helper" would face the death penalty and not the one(s) who gave what was believed at the time to be the fatal injury.

Quote: "assuming it's true."

It's true alright. Lin Wood was certainly freaking about this statement, and put it in his lawsuit against ST, and ST was asked about it under oath:

12 Q. Page 48, the first full paragraph.

13 "John was overheard to ask someone quietly,

14 'Did you get my golf bag?'" Did I read that

15 correctly?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Who overheard him ask that

18 question?

19 A. I believe that was either John or

20 Barbara Fernie.

21 Q. Who did they overhear him ask that

22 question to? Who was the someone?

23 A. They could not identify that

24 party.

25 Q. And when did that statement, was

304

1 it allegedly made?

2 A. The did you get my golf bag

3 statement?

4 Q. Yeah.

5 A. I think in the days following the

6 murder.

7 Q. Do you know how many days after

8 the murder?

9 A. No.

lucyd wrote:

I know. How weird to think of golf clubs on that day. That is, assuming it's true and ST remembered the correct day JR asked for them, and heard it directly rather than as hearsay from others on the scene that day.
JR may have been thinking that he needed those golf clubs as an excuse to get away from Nedra and Patsy for several hours.
I don't think the Ramseys pimped out their kid. My guess is that if this happened by rage or accident - and if another Ramsey friend was compromised in this, having helped them cover up the crime - then this is the person that the higher-ups were protecting, and not JR. He was a relative newbie in Boulder. Rich people can move into a city and immediately have the most influential friends in town as their new best friends, but these aren't the kind of friends who will lay down in front of a train for you and take a serious hit for you. Shallow friends could have known JR well enough to protect him, a person who might or might not be the worst in their imaginations. They would have cut their losses quickly, and avoided him.
Unless the law firm had tons of crap on the prosecutor's office, and the office was a puppet for the firm (one explanation) then I suggest looking around to see if there was someone who isn't the killer, perhaps, but who helped in the staging which, it turned out, was the actual cause of death. That kind of changed things, I would think, if the staging occurred with help and it turned out the "helper" would face the death penalty and not the one(s) who gave what was believed at the time to be the fatal injury.

I am not talking about Boulder big wigs,they are not big enough,imo these orders came from way outside of Boulder Co.It was not that JR was in the know ,it was who he knew,and what he knew that go the ball a rolling. JMO

got the ball a rolling.

candy wrote:

I believe that was either John or
20 Barbara Fernie.
21 Q. Who did they overhear him ask that
22 question to? Who was the someone?
23 A. They could not identify that
24 party.
25 Q. And when did that statement, was
304
1 it allegedly made?
2 A. The did you get my golf bag
3 statement?
4 Q. Yeah.
5 A. I think in the days following the
6 murder.
7 Q. Do you know how many days after
8 the murder?
9 A. No.

Wouldn't candy agree that what Steve Thomas said there at his deposition about golf clubs is gossip and hearsay at its finest?

There is no real proof that what Steve Thomas said there about the golf clubs is true. Steve Thomas could be making it all up for all we know, or he could have just believed some silly story Fleet White told him.

Where is a statement, or an affidavit, about that golf club matter from John or Barbabra Fernie?

There was a reference to that golf club matter in the Boulder Daily Camera in 1999. I'm not too sure how accurate this is either:

"Investigators noticed a set of golf clubs in the hallway leading to the Ramseys' basement, but could not locate the putter, sources said. Authorities later found the putter in the Ramseys' back yard, sources said. Police also took a baseball bat from the home."

The fact of the matter is that John Ramsey did in fact get his golf clubs brought to him in Atlanta

I'd be hard pressed to believe that they were brought for him without him having requested them. I don't think anyone ever disputed the fact that John asked for them along with the list that was given for belonging retrieval

I don't believe anyone else would think to pack up his golf clubs for him right after his daughter was murdered as part of the items "needed" in Atlanta at that point.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it. John didn't seem to have any problem getting right back into his golf game in Atlanta after the murder

Some parents have clear heads about these things.

But again, nobody has ever disputed, save for you Henri that John asked for them. The only issue seemed EVER to be WHY he wanted them. The RST has made a million excuses why he could want his golf clubs, which tells me nobody at all is disputing that FACT

If I'm not mistaken, it is even mentioned in their own book DOI (not positive)

ask ramsey about his friends in the back room. the disk with the names the guns they tried to use on the perps the string john held and the lamp,lampstand the way she was hammered wen the lamp fell the blue room the chair against the boiler rm door the barby playhouse.the pay list,gates allen brunei,clinton ashcroft bolten. bush lots of vips and who's who on list. buffet paid part of the recovery of the disk. x-file.

lucyd wrote:

That's a thought, Candy. But as a N.C. resident who lives near Pinehurst, I can attest there is no such thing as a non-golf season in N.C. and Georgia.

As a former North Carolinian, I can attest that only your AVID golfers get out in the dead of winter to play and certainly very sporadically at best. I have never seen JR as being an AVID golfer by any stretch of the imagination.


An AVID golfer is someone, like my son-in-law who plays about 3 days a week. There is nothing you can't tell me about golf. EVERYONE in my family plays. LOL

Should have added that even Myrtle Beach's golf season is from mid- March until the end of May and from Mid-September until the end of November.

The only people that I know that come to Myrtle Beach in the winter and play golf are primarily the Canadians. The really cold weather does not bother them and the courses are about half price then because all the golf clubs coming from up north would never book those winter months. Same as in the summer. No golfers would ever pick those 100 degree days to kill themselves. LOL

Henri asked: "Wouldn't candy agree that what Steve Thomas said there at his deposition about golf clubs is gossip and hearsay at its finest?

There is no real proof that what Steve Thomas said there about the golf clubs is true. Steve Thomas could be making it all up for all we know, or he could have just believed some silly story Fleet White told him.

Where is a statement, or an affidavit, about that golf club matter from John or Barbabra Fernie?"

Great question Henri. If it's true, it's for sure in a police report. I'm assuming he knows of this from a police report. But again, the Ramseys put this right in their complaint, being alarmed by the statement as I was, and he should have been ready, chapter and verse, to say, which one spoke this to what police officer on what day.

For those in the southern states about golfing, thanks for that info. Golfing is certainly seasonal here. Ramsey gave an interview on the 10th anniversary of JonBenet's death to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution at a golf course in Atlanta. All I could think of was how inappropriate that was, and OJ like. The whole golf story still bothers me all these years later, because of the Menendez brothers trick on the police to get their rifles out from the crime scene and away from the cops to find by asking to go get their tennis rackets.

It's also disturbing given the close proximity of one set of his golf clubs to the crime scene. You can find a photo of the outside of the wine cellar door, and the clubs are clearly visable. And I've also wondered, like others have said here, if the towel he had in there may be the source of fibers.

candy wrote:

It's also disturbing given the close proximity of one set of his golf clubs to the crime scene. You can find a photo of the outside of the wine cellar door, and the clubs are clearly visable. And I've also wondered, like others have said here, if the towel he had in there may be the source of fibers.

and tape, and surplus cord and perhaps a tip of a paintbrush?

Patsy just took his life away. The cops just took his house away. The man wanted something that connected him to his former life, something he could keep and control and play with. He wanted his Rosebud.

Valid points for both arguments.

1. Were the police still clueless enough even after getting reamed out for handlling the crime scene to forget to check the golf bag and contents as evidence? I hope not.

2. Yes, BrotherMoon. It's a Rosebud. Golf is how men find a quiet place and talk to each other or to get away from talk in general. Or how they seek the comfort of being around other men, as in back in the days they were boys on a playground or playing softball. And some men excuse a few hours a day missing from home when they are going someplace else entirely they don't want the wife to know about, but find that a golf bag leads to no questions about unexplained missing time.

3. It's both a rosebud and where some lingering evidence was hidden. That would be a strange place to hide anything, considering that all blunt objects would be checked. Unless JR was counting on the fact that awareness of the head injury would not come until later.