momentum is crushing homosexual "marriage"

Jim wrote:

HISTORY OF STATE BANS
History of constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriage. The following states will have referendums on bans next month: Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, Wisconsin.

Yeah. That's a list that paralles the laws to segregate blacks, deny women the right to vote, present the deaf and inter-racial couples from marrying, and enforcing sodomy laws for gays but not for straight people. As I recall, all of those laws were overturned by legislative action, courts, and amendment to state and federal constitutions. Denying people their rights is against the moral fiber of Americans.

Oh darn. I forgot abortion rights. It's also looking like the "green" right is turning it's back on the Republican party. Since the President failed to sign the Kyoto Accord, I have to applaud what Christians are doing to stop global warming and the cancer-causing pollution of our environment. That's a little reverse momentum and it signals what we all believed; that you can't underestimate the intelligence of Christians. You may disagree with them, but Christians don't want their kids getting cancer, nor do they want hotter weather and rising oceans to flood their homes.

Jim wrote:

Okie, your racism is appalling. We all know that African Americans deeply resent claiming that centuries of slavery and repression are the same as not allowing radical homosexuals to redefine marriage into something it never was and that homosexuals don’t actually practice. Your post also makes your own cause look racist and illogical.
Your history and geography are also very wrong. Hawaii was the first state to enact a constitutional amendment to prevent disenfranchisement of Americans on the definition of marriage. It has always been one of the most racially integrated states in America. Alaska, Michigan, Montana, Utah, and a number of the others also have no history of oppression of African Americans.
The entire notion that your choice of lifestyle has ANYTHING to do with segregation is absurd. Your movement is actually the antithesis of the Civil Rights Movement. It was to enfranchise people. Your movement seeks to disenfranchise Americans in order to undemocratically force the contrived nonsense of homosexual “marriage” on them. Even homosexuals have overwhelmingly rejected homosexual “marriage’ as a practice EVERYWHERE it has been enacted.
You complain about the Scottsdale people but yourself spam the forum with the same idle nonsense that you can’t defend with logic or data.

You're just blaming gays for the moral lapses of our country's unfortunate history of discrimination and every reasonable person knows you are. For most gay people, there no way you could ever construe the simply lives they live as "radical" yet you continue to beat that drum. True and compassionate Christians understand that their eternal salvation isn't tied to damning gay people. Christ said his greatest command is to love one another. You've lost sight of that command and you bear false witness, one after the other, when you apply wholesale condemnation to all gay people on issues that occur with only a few of us.

You really should reevaluate what you're trying to accomplish, Jim. Go to a meeting of Exodus and meet the gay people who are struggling with their spiritual lives and find out just how much their religious values mean, and then you'll have a much better idea of the kind of spiritual struggle gay people have. Exodus is funded by Focus on the Family, so you would be among people of your own philosophy. See the hurt and conflict that these ex-gays struggle with, how they struggled for months, years, even decades to keep their faith intact and how the prayed endlessly for God to remove their homosexual feelings. You don't seem to realize that most gay people come from that same religious tradition, one that values the examined life. You treat gay people as if you underestimate their intelligence, and you underestimate the intelligence of people who agree with you by beating this "radical" drum as if to make sure no one misses your point. You don't seem to think anyone, on the Pro or Anti gay side, has intellectual capability and those who do can see right through you. You're far more capable a thinker than THAT. You ought to employ what you have.

Okie, do you have reading comprehension problems? You can't dispute the veracity of what I've posted, so you proceed to lie about what I posted, and then attack the lie of your own make.

As for your misrepresentation of Christianity, the bible repeatedly and directly condemns homosexual acts as ABOMINATION. What part of that word don't you understand?

Did it ever occur to you that those who follow the biblical injunctions not to engage in homosexual acts are free from the horrible pathos and tragedy that follows that lifestyle choice in elevated percentages? Viewed rationally, that makes it apparent that the God that prohibited homosexual acts in fact loved us enough to tell us the truth. Did you hate mommy when she told you as a toddler not to put your hand on the hot stove?

I've known a number of ex-homosexuals who enthusiastically differ with you on the effects of leaving that lifestyle choice. My own cousin suffered horrible as a lesbian. She was battered and so treated horribly by a number of her fellow lesbians that she became suicidal a number of times. Eventually, she chose to leave that lifestyle and for a number of years now has been in a loving relationship with a man.

You belittle homosexuals to claim that they are completely controlled by animalism that they can't escape!

Bill wrote:

You can't dispute the veracity of what I've posted, so you proceed to lie about what I posted, and then attack the lie of your own make.
As for your misrepresentation of Christianity, the bible repeatedly and directly condemns homosexual acts as ABOMINATION. What part of that word don't you understand?
Did it ever occur to you that those who follow the biblical injunctions not to engage in homosexual acts are free from the horrible pathos and tragedy that follows that lifestyle choice in elevated percentages? Viewed rationally, that makes it apparent that the God that prohibited homosexual acts in fact loved us enough to tell us the truth. Did you hate mommy when she told you as a toddler not to put your hand on the hot stove?
I've known a number of ex-homosexuals who enthusiastically differ with you on the effects of leaving that lifestyle choice. My own cousin suffered horrible as a lesbian. She was battered and so treated horribly by a number of her fellow lesbians that she became suicidal a number of times. Eventually, she chose to leave that lifestyle and for a number of years now has been in a loving relationship with a man.
You belittle homosexuals to claim that they are completely controlled by animalism that they can't escape!

'veracity'?!!? LOL! Don't you mean 'stupidity'?

I'm surprised anyone tries to challenge you at all!!

Just because your cousin hung around with your local trash, doesn't make the entire population of gay people as bad as them! There are straight people who are just as bad as those in your cousins' "social circle"! So that makes ALL straight people rotten, too?!?! Do you realize how stupid you sound in all your posts?!?!

So, "See More," you can't see beyond your own hate and predjudice?

You can't do anything more than call me names?

That hate based movement to disenfranchise Americans on the definition of marriage is loosing on all fronts, and all you can do is sit on the supermarket floor, kicking your legs, crying, "Mommy HATES me 'cause she won't buy candy to rot my little teeth!"

¿Did it ever occur to you that this is precisely why the hate based movement to undemocratically force radical homosexual philosophies on others is failing so miserably?

There is no logical justification for the tyranny you advocate.

Bill wrote:

So, "See More," you can't see beyond your own hate and predjudice?
You can't do anything more than call me names?
That hate based movement to disenfranchise Americans on the definition of marriage is loosing on all fronts, and all you can do is sit on the supermarket floor, kicking your legs, crying, "Mommy HATES me 'cause she won't buy candy to rot my little teeth!"
¿Did it ever occur to you that this is precisely why the hate based movement to cradical homosexual philosophies on others is failing so miserably?
There is no logical justification for the tyranny you advocate.

You are so funny how you bring up the word hate!

Calling someone names = hate?

Where did you develop that philosophy? It doesn't make for logical debate!

You must be just in the habit of cut & pasting from your other rediculous posts. Pay attention to what you post here...you're making YOUR undemocratic movement look very ignorant!

Jim wrote:

It should be obvious from the results of EVER referendum on the subject that the Amercian People oppose falsely equating marriage with any homosexual relationship.

Thanks Jim/Goebbels,

you finally motivated me enough to get some NO on Prop 107 yard signs. Put one up at home yesterday (living in downtown Pheoenix were it will be defeated anyway won't do much good though).

Will probably put another one up near my second home on Route 66.

Jim wrote:

It's too bad that you can't also publically associate your prejudice, hate, name calling, anti-semitism, and racism with you cause.

I agree - it is too bad that you are unwilling and unable to admit to your agenda. You just described it real well.

Bill wrote:

Okie, do you have reading comprehension problems? You can't dispute the veracity of what I've posted, so you proceed to lie about what I posted, and then attack the lie of your own make.
As for your misrepresentation of Christianity, the bible repeatedly and directly condemns homosexual acts as ABOMINATION. What part of that word don't you understand?
Did it ever occur to you that those who follow the biblical injunctions not to engage in homosexual acts are free from the horrible pathos and tragedy that follows that lifestyle choice in elevated percentages? Viewed rationally, that makes it apparent that the God that prohibited homosexual acts in fact loved us enough to tell us the truth. Did you hate mommy when she told you as a toddler not to put your hand on the hot stove?
I've known a number of ex-homosexuals who enthusiastically differ with you on the effects of leaving that lifestyle choice. My own cousin suffered horrible as a lesbian. She was battered and so treated horribly by a number of her fellow lesbians that she became suicidal a number of times. Eventually, she chose to leave that lifestyle and for a number of years now has been in a loving relationship with a man.
You belittle homosexuals to claim that they are completely controlled by animalism that they can't escape!

okay, here it is for you, Butthead. you keep saying that homosexuality is an abomination... according to all bible scholars the word abomination, as used in the old testement of the bible, means in the says og pagans which translates to 'gentiles'. you are a gentile, therefore you are an abomination in the eyes of the god of israel. that means that you can be as gay as you'd like and tha tyou can stop feeling so guilty about it... in other words, have at it.

Jim wrote:

It's too bad that you can't also publically associate your prejudice, hate, name calling, anti-semitism, and racism with you cause.

geeze, bevis, you're really scraping for something to say now, aren't you?

Jim wrote:

Okie, your racism is appalling. We all know that African Americans deeply resent claiming that centuries of slavery and repression are the same as not allowing radical homosexuals to redefine marriage into something it never was and that homosexuals don’t actually practice. Your post also makes your own cause look racist and illogical.
Your history and geography are also very wrong. Hawaii was the first state to enact a constitutional amendment to prevent disenfranchisement of Americans on the definition of marriage. It has always been one of the most racially integrated states in America. Alaska, Michigan, Montana, Utah, and a number of the others also have no history of oppression of African Americans.
The entire notion that your choice of lifestyle has ANYTHING to do with segregation is absurd. Your movement is actually the antithesis of the Civil Rights Movement. It was to enfranchise people. Your movement seeks to disenfranchise Americans in order to undemocratically force the contrived nonsense of homosexual “marriage” on them. Even homosexuals have overwhelmingly rejected homosexual “marriage’ as a practice EVERYWHERE it has been enacted.
You complain about the Scottsdale people but yourself spam the forum with the same idle nonsense that you can’t defend with logic or data.

scotsdale PERSON, you divie. there's only one lonely guy sitting in a dark closet spamming an inflamitory website because he's paid to do so.

Jim wrote:

YOU are the ANTI-SEMITE trivializing the Holocost by calling me "Goebbels."
YOU are the RACIST, trivializing centuries of slavery and oppression by nonsensically trying to equate true oppression of African Americans with any opposition to your anti-democratic movement to force a contrived redefinition of "marriage" on an unwilling nation.

Jim,

you do know that I am German and that I have personally talked to Holocaust survivors and visited concentration camps many times?

you do know that 100s of thousands of gays were murdered in concentration camps by the Nazi's, tortured in medical experiments and raped for general amuzement.

you do know that unlike other holocaust surivors the few gay ones that did survive where put right back into prison until they were finally pardoned the the 1960s.

It took until just a few years ago that the German parliament finally officially apologized for the mass-murder of gays during the holocaust.

A memorial is commisioned and will be erected in Berlin in the next few years.

How do you dare to insult some of my by now dead friends this way?

I was using the term Goebbels for you in full awareness of it's historical impact and meaning.

With your post just now you committed the crime of "Volksverhetzung"

You are the one trivializing.

OK .... I will breath deeply and I will try to forget your last post. I can only hope that you have the slightest sliver of an idea what a base and cruel insult you just uttered.

If you had any manners whatsoever your next post would be a full and honest apology.

Jim wrote:

YOU are the ANTI-SEMITE trivializing the Holocost by calling me "Goebbels."
YOU are the RACIST, trivializing centuries of slavery and oppression by nonsensically trying to equate true oppression of African Americans with any opposition to your anti-democratic movement to force a contrived redefinition of "marriage" on an unwilling nation.

you forgot to use your REPLY button again.

did you know that the anti-slavery movement, the women's rights movement, the christian temprence movement / prohibition, interracial marriage and both men's and women's rights to wear a topless bathing suit or to go shirtless in public were all considdered to be undemocratic in their day?

noone, in fact, is trivialising the holocost by calling you goebbels. what it's doing is elevating you to a demension which you little deserve. you, bevis, will never reach the importance of goebbels or anyone else in history except for the possibility of melvin schlipschitz of the bronx.

Jim wrote:

YOU are the ANTI-SEMITE trivializing the Holocost by calling me "Goebbels."
YOU are the RACIST, trivializing centuries of slavery and oppression by nonsensically trying to equate true oppression of African Americans with any opposition to your anti-democratic movement to force a contrived redefinition of "marriage" on an unwilling nation.

Let me add that I am fully aware of the suffering of Jews in Germany in particualr and accross the centuries in the diaspora.

I am also fully aware of the tremendous suffering of African Americans during the days of the slave trade, western imperialism and blatent discrimination in this country the remnants of which are still felt today.

I have no intention to equate their suffing throughout history to ours. There is no point and it does not make any sense to pit one minority against another one. This attempt of yours will fail.

dances with weebles wrote:

<quoted text>
calling you goebbels is elevating you to a demension which you little deserve. you, bevis, will never reach the importance of goebbels or anyone else in history except for the possibility of melvin schlipschitz of the bronx.

Dances,

you are right. That little twit never deserved to be called anything ... except perhaps Bevis ;-)

Jim wrote:

Jim, your racism and anti-Semitism are indeed shocking.
It is ironic that one that chooses to live as a homosexual also trivializes in name calling what Nazis did.
You know that Jews find this sort of trivialization despicable.
You know that African Americans find your trivialization of their suffering to also be despicable, and yet you continue with both.

Did you even read my previous post (no. 18)? Anyway - you did not apologize and thus I know what you are. No further comments needed.

Jim wrote:

Yes, I read your post "18," which makes your anti-Semetic and racist remark all the worse. You make nasty remarks on the Mormon threads, and they were also murdered by the Nazis.
Perhaps you're familiar with Helmut Hübner, for whom a school is named in Hannover:
http://66.201.103.56/p_History details.asp?id=1382

I have not said anything negative about members of LDS church in general. Don't twist my word. I also did not deny that religious minorities like Jehovah's witnesses and members of LDS were persecuted.

Anyway - you have outed yourself as the monster you are. You will not be able to put as much as a piece of paper between me and my Jewish friends.

There is nothing anti-semitic about acknowledging the gay holocaust, rather the opposite.

Jim wrote:

I think you know well enough that your comments were indeed anti-Semetic and racist.
Your name calling in general is childish and in no way conceals the fact that you cannot justify the tyranny that you advocate.

You must be talking about yourself Jim as usual. It's been a while since I fought skinheads like you on the street, but I can sure still smell a Nazi.

Sorry everybody ... I didn't wantt to get into this discussion with Bevis/Jim/Bill, but he just hit that one button ... as though he knew he could really hurt me that way.

At least he has been outed as who he really is. Sure reminds me of the cowardly gangs of my youth that used to hang out around one of the gay bars waiting for a single gay guy to come out that they could beat up down the road but being too afraid to try and attack anyone right then and there.

A little neo-nazi skinhead boy with serious self-esteem issues.