Blacks, Gays And The Church: A Complex Relationship

BROWNMAN20 wrote:

I believe homosexuality is a human fettish thing. If you are practicing it, then thats your business, I dont hate you, but I kinda shy away from the "born this way" thing. I think its a excuse to say you like what you like. No one is born gay or straight, you pick up things as you go, and gays have told me this, but the other gays think "born this way". Its propaganda to be accepted by the mainstream I believe. I do not hate gays, I have lesbian friends, and I dont judge them, but I dont think anyone is born this way, hell, some have changed to straight, thats when I stop believe that about gays.

So when did you choose to be straight? Did you wake up one morning and say "hmm I would like to f*ck women today"?

Wat the Tyler wrote:

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So when did you choose to be straight? Did you wake up one morning and say "hmm I would like to f*ck women today"?

You should ask your father taht, he had you.

sad but true wrote:

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that's just it, no one is "harming" you or your ilk. If you want to marry do what we've been doing for the last 2000 plus years.........

History, science, and even law have demonstrated denial of equal treatment harms those denied. Yet simple logic should reveal this basic truth.

And while never the dominant role in any society, gay people have been getting married for over 4,000 years. Those opposed to equality are either ignorant of that fact or simply choose to ignore it.

BROWNMAN20 wrote:

I believe homosexuality is a human fettish thing. If you are practicing it, then thats your business, I dont hate you, but I kinda shy away from the "born this way" thing. I think its a excuse to say you like what you like. No one is born gay or straight, you pick up things as you go, and gays have told me this, but the other gays think "born this way". Its propaganda to be accepted by the mainstream I believe. I do not hate gays, I have lesbian friends, and I dont judge them, but I dont think anyone is born this way, hell, some have changed to straight, thats when I stop believe that about gays.

Most straight people as well as most gay people will tell you they have no choice over to whom they are emotionally and physically attracted. Only bisexual people are attracted to members of both sexes.

With the prejudice and hate frequently expressed on these threads, why would anyone choose a life of legal and social rejection, demonization, and dehumanization? I certainly wouldn't, and all of the gay people I know agree the only choice was whether to live life authentically, or try live a life of denial and deceit.

Ironically, much of the research showing orientation is not a choice, comes from efforts to change it. Not only have such efforts shown efforts to change orientation are not successful, but that they are often harmful to the point of self destructive behavior including suicide.

"Contrary to claims of sexual orientation change advocates and practitioners, there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation," said Judith M. Glassgold, PsyD, chair of the task force. "Scientifically rigorous older studies in this area found that sexual orientation was unlikely to change due to efforts designed for this purpose. Contrary to the claims of SOCE practitioners and advocates, recent research studies do not provide evidence of sexual orientation change as the research methods are inadequate to determine the effectiveness of these interventions." Glassgold added: "At most, certain studies suggested that some individuals learned how to ignore or not act on their homosexual attractions. Yet, these studies did not indicate for whom this was possible, how long it lasted or its long-term mental health effects. Also, this result was much less likely to be true for people who started out only attracted to people of the same sex."

"Based on this review, the task force recommended that mental health professionals avoid misrepresenting the efficacy of sexual orientation change efforts when providing assistance to people distressed about their own or others' sexual orientation."

Insufficient Evidence that Sexual Orientation Change Efforts Work, Says [American Psychological Association]

Retired Joe wrote:

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That is absurd. If you were talking about racism, then yes I'd agree.
The only irrational behavior here is your belief that homosexuality is normal.
And yes, there is no legal justification to prevent gay marriage.
But the will of the people can't be ignored either.
There is a reason the Constitution begins with "We the people".

You should also notice equal treatment under the law is a theme throughout the founding documents, and is required by the constitution. While the majority gets to make the rules, those rules must apply equally to everyone:

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression." - Thomas Jefferson

"The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections." (US Supreme Court)

Equal rights were never intended to depend on mob rule. The rule of law requires equality.