From the Pulpit: The 'Sin of homosexuality'

There are two issues burning and stirring in this pastor's spirit right now. "Gay rights" and "Separation of church and state." "Gay rights." It is around the argument as to whether homosexuality is normal or abnormal. Full Story
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Prana

Wedmore, UK

#1 Jul 4, 2009
As a senior police officer, who just happens to be gay, a state of being which harms no-one, I find your comments, where you compare me to murderers and thieves beyond offensive. Those are the people I spend my life bringing to justice, because their actions harm others. Your archaic, ill founded and bigoted views also do harm, as they reinforce hatred in peoples hearts. Shame on you for calling yourself a man of God.
Scott

Long Beach, CA

#2 Jul 4, 2009
Oddly, you mentioned two topics in the open of this piece but chose to focus on gay people. Obsessed much?
raytheist

Houston, TX

#3 Jul 4, 2009
Mr. Frazier, you are certainly entitled to your beliefs, however misguided and ill-informed your beliefs might be. Homosexuality may not be "normal" for you, but it is in fact part of the normal spectrum of human sexuality, as well as being found in over 1,500 other animal species. It isn't the majority orientation, but it is just as normal as freckles or being left-handed. Science trumps the Bible every time. Science has evidence; the Bible has none.

There are many denominations that have realized their archaic views of human sexuality are wrong. Perhaps you might consider the possibility you might be mistaken in your zeal, as well.

Further, telling someone "You are not normal, there is something wrong with you, and you need to join my religion and get fixed" is absolutely NOT a "warm and loving invitation."
Dumb da Dumb dumb

Canada

#4 Jul 4, 2009
The individual books in the Bible were originally written primarily for the various religious cults and their priests and the Bible was only cobbled together and mistranslated and intentionally misquoted later to shore up all the crazy conflicting beliefs, doctrines and loose ends from the various cults of Christianity at the time.

The books in the Bible were NOT written for the common people who could neither read nor write and spent most of their time struggling to eat and survive. These uneducated unwashed people 2 thousand years ago only cared about GOD if they got fed or shelter out of the deal.

For any modern Christian to presume that the Bible they swear by and swear oaths over is some sacred holy tome of Christianity is a distinct form of mental illness that is obviously not backed up by the known facts of the random construction of the Bible hundreds of years ago.

And religious faith in GOD is not the issue I'm referring to here at all, by the way. But blind and clueless faith in the complete truthfulness of the presently butchered Bible IS the issue here. The Bible is only a beginning stepping stone to spirituality, and reissues of it such as the King James version it is NOT the agreed on version in the various modern cults of Christianity.

Therefore, using some mistranslated version of the Bible as a convenient means for bigotry just to hate some group like gays, is a pretty big stretch of the imagination for anyone in their right mind in the first place, isn't it? Which tells us that most Bible thumping Christians obviously are not in their right minds to start with, or they wouldn't be using the Bible as simply another means to hate others they don't understand or agree with.
Louis

Durham, NC

#5 Jul 4, 2009
Mr. Frazier, Since you are so moved and motivated by what the bible says, perhaps you should act accordingly. The bible mentions homosexuality only a handful of times, while the sin of adultery is mentioned several hundred times. I wonder which the bible thinks is more important? In fact sir, as you well know Adultery is mentioned as one of the 10 commandments, the laws delivered directly from God to Moses...no mention of gay folks in the 10 commandments, I guess God had more to worry about when he made the rules, but of course YOU Mr. Frazier know so much more than God, so you can pick and choose what sins are important. By the way, when you do a google map search of your church, it looks to be quite downtrodden in between a liquor store and a thrift store and across the street from a BBQ joint.... Something tells me there are not that many homosexuals living there, but your welcome to murderers and thieves should bring in lots of your neighbors.
Chuck Anziulewicz

Beaver, WV

#6 Jul 4, 2009
DEAR PASTOR FRAZIER:

The United States of America is not a theocracy. Perhaps you would be happier if it was. Perhaps you would like it if this country was renamed The United States of Christ. Until that happens, you must accept the fact persons of ALL belief systems (whether Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Pagans, etc.) are on equal legal footing.

It would appear obvious that YOUR church is opposed to love and commitment among Gay couples, let alone marriage equality for Gay Americans. But other Christians and congregations are more supportive and accepting. Are you suggesting that only YOUR views should apply to the formulation of public policy?

Why is it that Straight couples are encouraged to date, get engaged, marry and build lives together in the context of monogamy and commitment, and that this is a GOOD thing … yet for Gay couples to do exactly the same is somehow a BAD thing? To me this seems like a very poor value judgment.

Here is my advice to you: Your faith is a personal matter. And if your personal faith informs you that Gay relationships (no matter how monogamous or long-term) are anathema, you are welcome to conduct your personal life as you see fit. You do not have the right to demand that persons of other faiths do the same.

When marriage equality for Gay couples finally becomes a reality (and it eventually will), I can promise you with 100% certainty that it will not affect your life, your marriage, your church, or your children ONE BIT. You will never have to worry about being denied a job or your love because of YOUR sexual orientation. Your church will never be forced to marry Gay couples, any more than it is forced to marry non-Christian couples.

Perhaps the best thing for you to do when it comes to your dealings with Gay individuals and couples is simply to obey The Golden Rule: Treat them as you yourself would wish to be treated.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#7 Jul 4, 2009
"John Frazier is a pastor at Temple of Praise of Oroville"....
No, John Frazier is just a garden variety bigot spreading propaganda.
Kim

San Rafael, CA

#8 Jul 4, 2009
This pastor is ... an ignorant bigot.
nondescript

Herndon, VA

#10 Jul 4, 2009
First, the issue is not around whether homosexuality is normal. Infertility is not normal either, but infertle men and women are allowed to marry. Even being an American is not normal in the sense that most people in the world are not American.

The real issue is whether people have a right to be with the person of their choosing or not.

As for Sodom being a homosexual haven, why didn't Lot offer himself instead of his virgin daughters? As an aside, I personally find it offensive that he would so quickly offer his daughters when an angel could presumably take care of itself.

In any case, if you don't want to marry a homosexual, then don't. Nobody's forcing you. Allow others to live as they wish to live. You don't want people meddling in your affairs, so I'm sure you'd appreciate them not wanting you to meddle in theirs. Ever hear of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you?". Perhaps a more appropriate saying, would be "Live and let live".

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#11 Jul 4, 2009
nondescript wrote:
First, the issue is not around whether homosexuality is normal. Infertility is not normal either, but infertle men and women are allowed to marry. Even being an American is not normal in the sense that most people in the world are not American.
The real issue is whether people have a right to be with the person of their choosing or not.
As for Sodom being a homosexual haven, why didn't Lot offer himself instead of his virgin daughters? As an aside, I personally find it offensive that he would so quickly offer his daughters when an angel could presumably take care of itself.
In any case, if you don't want to marry a homosexual, then don't. Nobody's forcing you. Allow others to live as they wish to live. You don't want people meddling in your affairs, so I'm sure you'd appreciate them not wanting you to meddle in theirs. Ever hear of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you?". Perhaps a more appropriate saying, would be "Live and let live".
The thing about it...
Ezekiel 16:49-50

49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness (sic) of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

Rape, inhospitality, pride, more than enough idle time on their hands and enough to eat but they cared not for thed poor and needy....
Was the Sin of Sodom as taught, Blaming it strictly on homosexuality is nothing but False Witness and the mark of False Prophets.
TracyLaura Oroville CA

Oroville, CA

#12 Jul 4, 2009
Mr. Frazier, I'd like to thank you for your article on "homosexuality" and YOUR opinion. I consider it a blessing in disguise. As a lezbian couple, it is helpful to know which charities and organizations are supportive and which are not. Obviously YOUR church is one that we will NOT be supporting or contributing to, and neither will MANY of our gay and lezbian friends and family. God is the only one that has the power to judge ANYONE and I personally, am not afraid of that day. We are all created equal in his eye, and it is you who will have to answer to biggotry on your judgment day.
By the way, is it sodomy when a wifes husband decides to "try the other hole"?
Peace be with you

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#14 Jul 4, 2009
Gay and Proud wrote:
Spam
And so you cut and paste discredited spam. So?
cash is good enough

Hayward, CA

#15 Jul 4, 2009
funny how gay people can't be ministers in this church, but they're welcome to attend services and of course give a tything.... everyone's cash is green, no ethicial problem taking that, huh? Shame on you.

Just what this county needs, more closed minded bigots... that isn't news, shame on the paper for printing this non-story.
Gretchen

United States

#18 Jul 4, 2009
"Pastor" frazier, you are completely wrong on the subject of GLBT Christians. We number in the thousands, and our numbers are growing everyday. My WIFE and I wouldn't set foot in your church, so don't worry, we won't be around to join in your pwecious widdle service. If we are not good enough to minister in your "church", then you are not in need of our money.

“in eastern nc”

Since: Apr 07

Jacksonville /CampLejeune

#19 Jul 4, 2009
Just how stupid can you be to be in a church that doesn't want you,this is not like the government where everyone is entilted to the same laws. Join another church or just forget it altogether.
Natural Man

Ventura, CA

#20 Jul 4, 2009
"No person in their right mind can say that homosexuality is normal. No human is born as a homosexual. This pastor refuses to refer to homosexuality as normal. Homosexuality is abnormal and perverted behavior. "

Would you agree that your assertion, "No human is born as a homosexual," is a claim about genetics? Are you aware that genetics does not confirm your assertion? Many people in their right minds claim it is "normal," meaning genetic rather than learned. Can you substantiate your claim with any facts?

You then refuse to refer to homosexuality as "normal." That's your choice of course but that is a very different statement than making the claim about homosexuals not being "born" that way. Your final condemnation of them as abnormal and perverted mixes up the two claims--one biological and the other moral. Do these two categories so easily conflate in your thinking? Do you want biology to confirm your beliefs and faith? Do you care if it does? What if it doesn't?

Be humble in your beliefs and condemnations of others and hope for continued awakening, as we all must do.
Tom L

San Francisco, CA

#22 Jul 4, 2009
Thank you, "Pastor". You and your ilk do more for the gay cause than anything gay people could ever possibly do for themselves. Your bigotry and hatred clarifies for the faithful the oppression gay people face.
Patrick

Evansville, IN

#24 Jul 5, 2009
Nonsense. The Bible is full of repulsive barbaric texts. Only hypocrites or those who haven't actually read the Bible can state that it is inerrant or the word of a god being.

Being gay is in fact natural, is in fact normal, and is in fact a beautiful variation of life.

Homosexuality isn't a choice. Supremacist ideology is.
Mexjewel

Tijuana, Mexico

#25 Jul 5, 2009
Jesus defines ALL sin as lack of love for neighbor. What is unloving about homosexuality? Who is not loved in a Gay relationship? If there is a victim, shouldn't that warrant legal action?

Ans. Nothing, no one and no.

(I don't want to burden your loving ministry with my homosexual cat who will not mate with her opposite gender. She must have decided to be homosexual before I got her because she didn't catch it from me. Should she go to pet Hell because she doesn't want to change?)
bob

Chico, CA

#26 Jul 5, 2009
homosexuality is natures way of population control.

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