U.S. fights benefits for gay couples

Eaglefan9727 wrote:

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And you dont have the right to force anything onto other people which the gay community is doing. The gay community believes they are above the law when no one is above the law.
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Fighting for or granting equal rights to a specific group are not forcing anything on anybody and only an ignorant twit would believe otherwise.
Maybe, You should go to Maine or California and see if you get a marriage license. They will tell you that marriage is between a man and a woman, So you are wrong when you state that marriage is a legal contract between two consenting adults.
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I would have a problem getting a marriage license in any state including Massachusetts because I’ve been married for 20 years. If I wasn’t then I could get one in any state because I’m heterosexual. However some of my friends couldn’t and I object to them not having the same rights I do.
Yes, They are citizens, But they have to abide by the laws in this country just like I have to obey the laws. If they dont like the law. They can move out of the country or just shut their fricken mouth and stop crying like little children.

There were once laws that said that African Americans couldn’t use the same facilities as whites, that members of different races couldn’t marry and that women couldn’t vote. These were unjust laws and were overturned. We have the moral obligation to fight against unjust laws which is what’s happening today.

It is an insult,to compare gays to African americans and woman rights
issues it is not the samething,the gays take everything,out of context.
The gays can get benefits and civil union,but they need to leave our rights to vote,and marriage,and religion alone

A revolution is comming and massachusetts,politicians can keep the gays here,becouse everyone else will be leaving,the GayState.

The gays and liberals politicians will,devide this state in two soon enough.Leave our religion and family also our rights to vote alone.

Sure this is the 21 century,some say lets married the same sex,and than let family marry each other ,than let people marry their animals.

Assachusetts wrote:

The gays and liberals politicians will,devide this state in two soon enough.Leave our religion and family also our rights to vote alone.

Um. No one is taking away your religion, family, or right to vote. That's exactly what others are doing to those who are looking for equality.

Alice T wrote:

Barney Frank should consider settling down. Running around with different boy friends can sometimes lead to problems. For example, he was present when one of his boy friends was arrested on a marijuana charge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

And this get a big ol' "so what?!!!" We get it. You hate gays and Barney Frank. Go find another house to haunt.

Obamanation wrote:

It is an insult,to compare gays to African americans and woman rights
issues it is not the samething,the gays take everything,out of context.
The gays can get benefits and civil union,but they need to leave our rights to vote,and marriage,and religion alone

It is an insult to whom; African Americans, women, or homosexuals?

This is in fact not out of context at all, they are a discriminated against minority looking to gain equal protection under the law. The struggles are analogous.

Regarding the right to vote; we are not a pure democracy where all members of society may vote on every issue. The state routinely passes legislation without putting it to a vote of the masses. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts representatives have twice upheld gay marriage, and when it came up on a public ballot, it was not voted down. Further, the ability to prevent, particularly a minority from receiving equal rights should never be an issue on which to vote. Withholding rights by majority tyranny is wrong, pure and simple.

Regarding the “right” to marriage; how does allowing gay marriage effect one in any way, should they not choose to enter a homosexual union?

Regarding freedom of religion; just as you have a right to freely express your religious views, so does everyone else. Whether they be similar to your own, opposed, or even agnostic, others have a right to similar tolerance of their own religious views.

Obamanation wrote:

Sure this is the 21 century,some say lets married the same sex,and than let family marry each other ,than let people marry their animals.

same sex marriage is not analogous to incest or bestiality. In the former, there are a set of very genetic risks vis a vis reproduction, which is part of the reason that it already is illegal in most places. As for bestiality, there is the pesky point of the animal not being able to consent or enter into a contract.

I would ask again, how does allowing homosexuals the right to marry (and thereby receive equal protection under the law), adversely affect your rights in any way? Is there really any direct effect upon anyone who would not enter into such a union, realizing that a rational person can see there is no infringement of heterosexual marriage, voting, or free speech rights?

sgreen wrote:

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You didn't answer the question Harry. Did you go to college? Where? Did you graduate?
Examine the morality of X. X might lead to Y and Y might lead to Z. Z is definitely immoral. Just because Z is immoral, that says NOTHING about the morality of X.

If you haven't figured it out...I am a EEBS.
Figure that one out on your own...but the Boolean Algebra should give you some clue...
I minored in CS.
WPI rocks!

Craig in OKC wrote:

<quoted text> Really? Way to jump to conclusions. They were 9, 6 and 5 when I came out. I would call that childhood, wouldn't you?
This is the whole thing about your side... you make assumptions you no absolutely nothing about.

Well my side has about 5000 years of documented facts on their side...how about yours? 10 to 20 minutes or so??
Your children are harmed...just as children are harmed by divorce.
Children need a family unit that consists of a 2 opposite sex parents. Mother and father...they play vital roles in the make up of your child.
I know this as a widowed father of a 3 year old daughter...she is in constant need of female support that I am unable to give her...and it hinders her in many ways.
You would think as a parent you would want to give your children all the benefits you could and not saddle them with such things as a lifestyle choice.

Rick in Kansas wrote:

<quoted text>What you view as a lack of morals is actually a very rigid moral system, it's just what they viewed as morality and what you view as morality are so totally different, you can't help but see their system as lacking morals. To the people in Huxley's dystopia, sex and drugs were morally acceptable, as long as such behavior was maintained within the social norms. Simply because their morality and social social norms aren't your morality and social norms, doesn't mean that they aren't very similar in one important respect, a rigid insistence on conformity to them. The people in Huxley's future didn't turn to the Controllers as an abrogation of parental responsibility for raising children, but the ultimate fulfillment of it, because the parents line was the party line. Much like in our present, the so-called parents right movement freaks at the very thought of non-conforming ideas being taught to their children.
As far as your laundry list of things that are supposedly "destroying the family unit", here's a quick dose of reality. The legalization of "drugs" is an effort to end a less than century old totalitarian social experiment, that never worked in <edited for space concerns>

Thanks for your reply...
I found that Huxley was trying to set about a future that was exactly opposite what we would come to expect as the norm...he did it for the shock value of course.
But you are right that one had to play with the norms of society...if you didn't have sex with a stranger every other night...you were not normal... if you knew your parents..ect...
And of course you remember the free mason I believe they were called...they were the homosexuals decanted for the pleasure of certain individuals...
The book was basically about the cheapening of the soul by wanton sex and everything that one would want at an early age till death. While nothing that came before was recognized. And the future was just another dose of Soma.

Tiffany from Fitchburg wrote:

You missed my point. Marriage laws have evolved and will continue to evolve until equality is granted under the law.

So, Let why not open marriage to all consenting adults no matter what kind of marriage it is. Lets say pologamy, incest, or any kind of marriage we can think of between consenting adults.

Remember, You are the one that stated the marriage laws have evolved....

Tiffany from Fitchburg wrote:

In your opinion, is it healthier, in your eyes for a child to grow up in a house with the parents he/she knows, or to potentially end up in a situation where they end up in Foster care (at no fault of the parents) because there is a loophole in the current law?

It is always healthier for a child to grow up in a house with the parents he or she knows.

PDupont wrote:

There were once laws that said that African Americans couldn’t use the same facilities as whites, that members of different races couldn’t marry and that women couldn’t vote. These were unjust laws and were overturned. We have the moral obligation to fight against unjust laws which is what’s happening today.

This has nothing to do with "African Americans" who couldn’t use the same facilities as whites or "women" who couldnt vote. It is a insult to try to compare same sex marriages to african americans and women.

Tiffany from Fitchburg wrote:

No one is taking away your right to vote.

Try telling that to the will of the people in California (including my family members) who have voted down same sex marriage twice.

Eaglefan9727 wrote:

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So, Let why not open marriage to all consenting adults no matter what kind of marriage it is. Lets say pologamy, incest, or any kind of marriage we can think of between consenting adults.
Remember, You are the one that stated the marriage laws have evolved....
<quoted text>
It is always healthier for a child to grow up in a house with the parents he or she knows.
<quoted text>
This has nothing to do with "African Americans" who couldn’t use the same facilities as whites or "women" who couldnt vote. It is a insult to try to compare same sex marriages to african americans and women.
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Try telling that to the will of the people in California (including my family members) who have voted down same sex marriage twice.

Unfortunately eagles fan, it is the same thing as discrimating against blacks and women. People can't change being gay, although you would like to think that it is a choice. It is not. So to discrimate against anyone based on something like skin color, sex, and sexual orientation is the EXACT same thing. I hope you are very proud of yourself that this is a major concern and cause in your life. What a life! Quit wasting your time.. in the end all will have equality under the law. Might not be tomorrow or the next day, but it will come. Hopefully you will be dead and gone by then and your gay grandkids can marry and live in peace and happiness. I am not gay and I have no vested interest in this subject... but I can't believe anyone would make this their cause in life. Just like in life, with your loser mentality (aka eagles fan), you will lose this battle in the end too.

ahhgiggitty wrote:

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Unfortunately eagles fan, it is the same thing as discrimating against blacks and women. People can't change being gay, although you would like to think that it is a choice. It is not. So to discrimate against anyone based on something like skin color,****, and sexual orientation is the EXACT same thing. I hope you are very proud of yourself that this is a major concern and cause in your life. What a life! Quit wasting your time.. in the end all will have equality under the law. Might not be tomorrow or the next day, but it will come. Hopefully you will be dead and gone by then and your gay grandkids can marry and live in peace and happiness. I am not gay and I have no vested interest in this subject... but I can't believe anyone would make this their cause in life. Just like in life, with your loser mentality (aka eagles fan), you will lose this battle in the end too.

Seems like a lot of anger for someone that has no "vested" interest. People take up causes that other can't understand all the time. My friend and neighbor is really into this anti-religion stuff headed by Gore Vidal. Not sure what the stick up his butt is with the subject but I don't wish him harm because he thinks differently then me.

Bagdad Harry wrote:

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Well my side has about 5000 years of documented facts on their side...how about yours? 10 to 20 minutes or so??
Your children are harmed...just as children are harmed by divorce.
Children need a family unit that consists of a 2 opposite sex parents. Mother and father...they play vital roles in the make up of your child.
I know this as a widowed father of a 3 year old daughter...she is in constant need of female support that I am unable to give her...and it hinders her in many ways.
You would think as a parent you would want to give your children all the benefits you could and not saddle them with such things as a lifestyle choice.

Don't you think your discrimination contributes to men marrying woman who are trying to be straight because of people like you. How many gay men get married to woman have kid s and then they realize no matter how hard they try that it is killing them to stay in the relationship? It's people like you ironically enough who contribute to the problem.
In your case your wife unfortunately died, in his case, both parents are still alive just not together anymore. It's totally not the same thing. But of course you would think it is.

Lunenburg wrote:

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Seems like a lot of anger for someone that has no "vested" interest. People take up causes that other can't understand all the time. My friend and neighbor is really into this anti-religion stuff headed by Gore Vidal. Not sure what the stick up his butt is with the subject but I don't wish him harm because he thinks differently then me.

Anger? I guess I just hate bigotry and discriminating against someone for qualities and attributes that can not be changed. Such as race or sex, even sexual orientation. I am sure being a minority definately contributes to those feelings. As for the other part about wishing another harm, I guess you are better person than myself. But hey at least I know my faults.

Eaglefan9727 wrote:

<quoted text>
So, Let why not open marriage to all consenting adults no matter what kind of marriage it is. Lets say pologamy, incest, or any kind of marriage we can think of between consenting adults.
Remember, You are the one that stated the marriage laws have evolved....

Comparing incestuous marriage and polygamy to gay marriage priviliges the historical religious condemnation of all three types of marriage while ignoring the fundamental, biological, psychological, and moral features that are unique to each. For example, there are psychologically damaging aspects to polygamy (specifically and traditionally against women) in general that are not present in a consenting homosexual relationship. As far as incest goes, I think there is a grand understanding of the biological reasonings behind why it is illegal.

Eaglefan9727 wrote:

<quoted text>It is always healthier for a child to grow up in a house with the parents he or she knows.

Under the current system of separate, inequal protection under the law, a homosexual couple can absolutely lose a child to Foster care if, for example, the nonadoptive parent is widowed. Also, some states simply frown on a homosexual couple having a child, which is fodder for interference in that couple's life. I can't cite specific examples of this second scenario at this time, but, if you've ever watched Judge Judy, you would see that it's pretty easy for straight couples may be investigated by their local social services agency. Add that to intolerance of the relationship and you have a formula for disaster.

Eaglefan9727 wrote:

<quoted text>This has nothing to do with "African Americans" who couldn’t use the same facilities as whites or "women" who couldnt vote. It is a insult to try to compare same sex marriages to african americans and women.

This was also answered several times. There are incredible similarities between the civil rights movements regarding women and African Americans. The homosexual community, in certain states, is now dealing with the same "separate but equal" treatment that African Americans received, and was subsequently deemed unconstitutional.

Eaglefan9727 wrote:

<quoted text>Try telling that to the will of the people in California (including my family members) who have voted down same sex marriage twice.

Civil Rights issues are generally not decided by popular vote as they are an issue of Constitutional protection. It is likely that, as in the case of most civil rights issues, this will be decided by the Supreme Court. That's just the way the Constitution was written, and, as the Constitution is the "supreme law of the land", to treat this issue any other way would simply be unAmerican.

Bagdad Harry wrote:

<quoted text>
Well my side has about 5000 years of documented facts on their side...how about yours? 10 to 20 minutes or so??
Your children are harmed...just as children are harmed by divorce.
Children need a family unit that consists of a 2 opposite sex parents. Mother and father...they play vital roles in the make up of your child.
I know this as a widowed father of a 3 year old daughter...she is in constant need of female support that I am unable to give her...and it hinders her in many ways.
You would think as a parent you would want to give your children all the benefits you could and not saddle them with such things as a lifestyle choice.

Well, perhaps you're not trying as a parent hard enough then. My brother was widowed at a VERY young age and raised his son and daughter on his own. They both got everything they needed and turned out to be fabulous parents to their own children.
Perhaps you're too focused on hating others to give your children the love they need.

ahhgiggitty wrote:

<quoted text>
Anger? I guess I just hate bigotry and discriminating against someone for qualities and attributes that can not be changed. Such as race or sex, even sexual orientation. I am sure being a minority definately contributes to those feelings. As for the other part about wishing another harm, I guess you are better person than myself. But hey at least I know my faults.

Anger will not bring you peace.

Bagdad Harry wrote:

<quoted text>
If you haven't figured it out...I am a EEBS.
Figure that one out on your own...but the Boolean Algebra should give you some clue...
I minored in CS.
WPI rocks!

Electrical Engineering Bachelor of Science with a minor in Computer Science from Worcester Polytechnic Institute.