It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

<quoted text>
I was trying to be a bit more compassionate. I just said his comment smells fishy.
All I know about the Hebrew calandar is if the barley isn't ripe on the fourteenth of Nissan you have to throw in an extra month. Can't have no Passover with green barley.

It came up when discussing this arbitrary date for the flood, but also throws a spanner in the Daniel calculations that ends up around 160 BC.
Usually christians keep spouting the same old same old, get's rather tiring.
i guess that's why i prefer agnostics as in my presumption that they are more open-minded.
KAB is just running behind on things.
But it should be nothing new that we occasionally all have to read back as to what others stated.

MAAT wrote:

<quoted text>
It came up when discussing this arbitrary date for the flood, but also throws a spanner in the Daniel calculations that ends up around 160 BC.
Usually christians keep spouting the same old same old, get's rather tiring.
i guess that's why i prefer agnostics as in my presumption that they are more open-minded.
KAB is just running behind on things.
But it should be nothing new that we occasionally all have to read back as to what others stated.

In America, we say it throws a monkey wrench into things. We don't call them "spanners." Besides, monkey wrench is funnier sounding.

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

<quoted text>
I won't even read foreal's stuff. That guy's mind is bent.

Agreed. His posts are just a waste of space. And electrons.

MAAT wrote:

The grammar in hebrew shows that a day in genesis 1 is exactly that...so no 1000 years or 1000 days.

Agreed. Plus the evening and morning references kinda nails that.

LowellGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
In America, we say it throws a monkey wrench into things. We don't call them "spanners." Besides, monkey wrench is funnier sounding.

Charley Chaplin put a spanner in the works.
Expression; throwing aspanner in the works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_wrench
From english coaches exported to America with allsorts of different bolts.
Monkey suite...posh english dress going with the people riding the wrench.
http://www.etymonlin.com/index.php...
Arabs thought is was unlucky to see a monkey and for some odd (read religion) reason that is related to women.

LowellGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
In America, we say it throws a monkey wrench into things. We don't call them "spanners." Besides, monkey wrench is funnier sounding.

One thing we're not gonna run out of is monkeys.

KAB wrote:

Widespread timely flood evidence only serves to keep the global flood on the list of possible explanations for the data. It doesn't prove there was a global flood.

You're right. As a matter of fact, the thousands of years of data we have on "widespread timely local floods," provides overwhelming evidence that they were not the result of a global flood.

Based on the data - the possibility that a global flood would explain worldwide occurrences of local flooding is 0.

KAB wrote:

The same would be true of a 4500 year old Middle Eastern bottleneck.

Well if that is true - then why did you spend the better half of 6 months arguing that a non-existent 4500 year old Middle Eastern bottleneck would provide evidence of a global flood?

KAB wrote:

The support for Bronze agers is documentation in a demonstrated reliable historical source.

It may be demonstrated in the bible - but Genesis and Job tell us the bible isn't scientifically reliable - as does the reference you provided on humans achieving extended lifetimes.

Your reference on humans attaining a 900+ year age, demonstrates that the technical intervention of growth factor/stem cell transfusion - something the bronze agers were not privy to - is the only way to achieve this goal.
http://www.technologyreview.com/featured-stor...

So it would seem that your reference does not even support the possibility of bronze age people attaining extended lifetimes.

KAB

contradictions:
http://www.skeptically.org/bible/id8.html

KAB
Though not from the site i gave before on the calendar:

quote:
The month names of the Hebrew calendar were common property among all the Semitic peoples in that part of the world. The four that are listed in the Bible may be called Canaanite month names. These are Abib, Ziv, Ethanim, and Bul. Two of these month names fall in the spring and two in the fall, corresponding to the time of the two equinoxes (Finegan, pp. 34–36). These four names demonstrate that long before the Exile the Hebrews carefully observed the seasons. The spring and fall festival were connected to the tropic year and intercalation was implicit in the customs and laws of the Hebrews before the Exile (Segal, pp. 256–257). After the conquest of Canaan, the Canaanite names were used for month names until the building of the Temple. Then the months were called by ordinal numbers. After the return from the Exile, Babylonian names were used (Schiaparelli, p. 104). It can be concluded that as Palestine fell from the sway of Egypt to the control of Babylon that the Babylonian way of calendar reckoning was officially adopted in Palestine. While the Jewish calendar added second Adars only in years of intercalation, the result was the same as the Babylonian system which intercalated seven out of nineteen years (Finegan, p. 38). It is believed the Babylonian calendar influenced the Hebrew calendar because it was firmly established in the sixth century bc and there is no evidence the Hebrew calendar was clearly defined at this time (Religious Holidays and Calendars, p. 10). After the Babylonian exile a number of permanent and significant changes occurred in the Israelitish calendar (New Catholic Ency., Vol. II, art. "Calendars of the Ancient Near East").

Historically, the Jewish calendar is the result of a long series of revisions and adjustments. While the evolution of this calendar has been studied extensively for many centuries, the historical material is often fragmentary and incomplete. The manner of inserting the thirteenth month, when called for, was a matter of slow and gradual development over a period of many years (Achelis, pp. 84–85). The seasons are at the very heart of the calendar. Their annual return is the foundation upon which an effective and orderly system must be built. Seasons are the foundation of time (ibid, p. 30). The month of Nisan with the Passover festival must occur in the spring, and the month of Tishri with its harvest festival must occur in the fall (The Comprehensive Hebrew Calendar, by Arthur Spier, p. 1). The custom of beginning the seventh month with the sound of the trumpet appears to show the inauguration of the civil year (Schiaparelli, p. 119). Talmudic literature debates whether Creation took place in Nisan or Tishri. For the purposes of dating, Tishri was chosen so that the New Year begins on the first of Tishri (Eliade, Vol. 8, p. 42). The Gezer calendar found in Palestine, going back to ancient times, demonstrates that at that time the year was reckoned as beginning in the fall and contained twelve months related to agriculture (Finegan, p. 34).

The Sabbatical year law with reference to sowing, reaping, and vintage during the same agricultural year refers to a year that could only begin in the fall. This is true also with the Year of Jubilee which began on the tenth day of the seventh month (Lev. 25:9) and lapsed from autumn to autumn. As noted, the numbering of months for religious purposes began in the spring (Schiaparelli, p. 120).

end quote
the amorite system of 7 times 50 days seems to also have been employed.

But we find Cannaanite/phoenician names, then numbers of the months, followed by post-exilic chaldi derived names.
The first part of genesis uses numbers as names for the days in the week, thus points to the source and thus time when that was in use.
Agriculture would follow visible months and seasons.

Somewhere, probably in discussing the Aramaic hexateuch, some bisshop complained about the hebrew calendar as having sometimes three times the same festival in a year.
And wrote a proposal for the christian holidays.
Josephus pointed out that there was a distinction between the priestly year and the secular year.
Antiquities of the jews. book I Chap. 3 Sect. 3.

MAAT wrote:

KAB
Though not from the site i gave before on the calendar:
quote:
The month names of the Hebrew calendar were common property among all the Semitic peoples in that part of the world. The four that are listed in the Bible may be called Canaanite month names. These are Abib, Ziv, Ethanim, and Bul. Two of these month names fall in the spring and two in the fall, corresponding to the time of the two equinoxes (Finegan, pp. 34–36). These four names demonstrate that long before the Exile the Hebrews carefully observed the seasons. The spring and fall festival were connected to the tropic year and intercalation was implicit in the customs and laws of the Hebrews before the Exile (Segal, pp. 256–257). After the conquest of Canaan, the Canaanite names were used for month names until the building of the Temple. Then the months were called by ordinal numbers. After the return from the Exile, Babylonian names were used (Schiaparelli, p. 104). It can be concluded that as Palestine fell from the sway of Egypt to the control of Babylon that the Babylonian way of calendar reckoning was officially adopted in Palestine. While the Jewish calendar added second Adars only in years of intercalation, the result was the same as the Babylonian system which intercalated seven out of nineteen years (Finegan, p. 38). It is believed the Babylonian calendar influenced the Hebrew calendar because it was firmly established in the sixth century bc and there is no evidence the Hebrew calendar was clearly defined at this time (Religious Holidays and Calendars, p. 10). After the Babylonian exile a number of permanent and significant changes occurred in the Israelitish calendar (New Catholic Ency., Vol. II, art. "Calendars of the Ancient Near East").
Historically, the Jewish calendar is the result of a long series of revisions and adjustments. While the evolution of this calendar has been studied extensively for many centuries, the historical material is often fragmentary and incomplete. The manner of inserting the thirteenth month, when called for, was a matter of slow and gradual development over a period of many years (Achelis, pp. 84–85). The seasons are at the very heart of the calendar. Their annual return is the foundation upon which an effective and orderly system must be built. Seasons are the foundation of time (ibid, p. 30). The month of Nisan with the Passover festival must occur in the spring, and the month of Tishri with its harvest festival must occur in the fall (The Comprehensive Hebrew Calendar, by Arthur Spier, p. 1). The custom of beginning the seventh month with the sound of the trumpet appears to show the inauguration of the civil year (Schiaparelli, p. 119). Talmudic literature debates whether Creation took place in Nisan or Tishri. For the purposes of dating, Tishri was chosen so that the New Year begins on the first of Tishri (Eliade, Vol. 8, p. 42). The Gezer calendar found in Palestine, going back to ancient times, demonstrates that at that time the year was reckoned as beginning in the fall and contained twelve months related to agriculture (Finegan, p. 34).
The Sabbatical year law with reference to sowing, reaping, and vintage during the same agricultural year refers to a year that could only begin in the fall. This is true also with the Year of Jubilee which began on the tenth day of the seventh month (Lev. 25:9) and lapsed from autumn to autumn. As noted, the numbering of months for religious purposes began in the spring (Schiaparelli, p. 120).
end quote
the amorite system of 7 times 50 days seems to also have been employed.
But we find Cannaanite/phoenician names, then numbers of the months, followed by post-exilic chaldi derived names.
The first part of genesis uses numbers as names for the days in the week, thus points to the source and thus time when that was in use.
Agriculture would follow visible months and seasons.

Thanks for making it all so simple [head spins]

Dogen wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks for making it all so simple [head spins]

Maybe we should revisit marksman's prophecy. MAAT seems to be knowledgeable of the subject but too long-winded to actually read.

marksman11 wrote:

So you say, but you guys record of proving these claims is pathetic. I'm tired of the lies that you guys "say so". Try showing me.

We have - repeatedly. A sampling of museums where human evolution is observed and tested:
The Smithsonian
http://humanorigins.si.edu/

American Museum of Natural History
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/hum...

Museum Human Evolution, Burgos, Spain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Human_...

Natural History Museum, London, England
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/life/human...

Australian Museum
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Human-Evolutio...

marksman11 wrote:

From day one I have asked anyone in here to show me when human from non-human evolution has been tested, observed, and replicated.

It's been observed and tested for the last 160 years, with the results of the testing replicated.

marksman11 wrote:

You guys are batting 100%

Yes we are.........as extensive evidence has been presented in support of human evolution. On the other hand, you are batting 0% since no evidence has been presented to falsify human evolution.

marksman11 wrote:

because not a single person in over 3 years has been able to do so, and the attempts to hide that fact as if it doesn't exist abounds.

Nothing has been hidden. The museums where human evolution has been observed and tested are easy to find.

What has been hidden over the last 3 years - is your evidence to falsify human evolution.

marksman11 wrote:

I'll simply add your post to that ever growing pile.

The evidence does accumulate over time doesn't it.

marksman11 wrote:

Well, it's real simple. Show me a test that proves a naturalistic path for the origin of life that I can replicate, and then maybe your belief will be on a higher plain than mine. The problem is you can't do that. So until you can, your "belief" of some "magical" path to an unaided natural path from non-living matter, to life, should also be dismissed as swill and wishful thinking. Ouch! That had to hurt!

Here are a few tests/recipes you might be able to replicate.

Recipe for mice:
Place a dirty underwear in an open pot or barrel containing a few grains of wheat or some wheat bran, and in 21 days, mice will appear.

Recipe for bees:
Kill a young bull, and bury it in an upright position so that its horns protrude from the ground. After a month, a swarm of bees will fly out of the corpse.

Recipe for frogs:
Add some swamp mud and straw to a jar. Cover mud layer with spring water. Keep it from drying out.

KAB wrote:

This is a spiritual eye test. What's wrong with this (word) picture?
"stauros: an upright stake, hence a cross"

Nothing. A cross is an upright post.

Technically - a stake requires no nails - just impalement. An upright post requires nails for crucifixion.

What's wrong with this definition?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crucify

"Modern scholars, following descriptions of criminals carrying crossbars by Plautus and Plutarch, often take the Gospel description as meaning Jesus, then Simon, carried only a heavy patibulum, the crossbar, to a pole, stipes, which was permanently driven into the ground at Golgotha.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_carrying_...

"Also of relevance is Matthew 16:24.... "Then Jesus said to his disciples,“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_carrying_...

Did Jesus speak to his disciples in Greek? What is the hebrew or aramiac word for stake/cross?
http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php...

Dogen wrote:

Brilliant!

Abracadabra!!!

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe we should revisit marksman's prophecy. MAAT seems to be knowledgeable of the subject but too long-winded to actually read.

Pah, you's of little headroom. ;)
Visualise me having to read the entire website!
I just picked out the few non-derogatory sensible things and added the bit on Josephus. It was a site that proved the validity of christianity and christian ideas by using Velioffski!
I had my computer redone, favorites in a secluded compartment and did not feel like scrolling back to find the simple as in straightforward more informative site on the calendar.
That KAB forgot to read!

But usually i get the complaint of being to compacted in my information.
I strife. But hither or dither?

More than 50 occurences.
I found no reason for aramaic primacy.
Though in all likelyhood syriac/greek was the lingo of the day in the northern regions.

quote Tangled Bank:
Did Jesus speak to his disciples in Greek? What is the hebrew or aramiac word for stake/cross?
http://www.peshitta.org/forum/viewtopic.php ...

At least i found the name of the philosopher known for such phrases as: you can not cross the same water twice.
His intended meaning of logos covers pneuma/roach and Élohim becoming one El or Elohim read as 'greatest.
And also for understanding G-D as 'life'.
Anybody here who does not believe in life!
Heraclitus 540-480 BC did not have a lot of believe in god(s), too gnostic, thus was declared anathema for the church, and the same concept reworked by a later philosopher. LOGOS, adopting the meaning of 'spoken out loud' or 'word'.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28979769/Heraclitus