Opponents of Evolution Adopting a New Strategy

Steve wrote:

<quoted text>You should know. You've been wrong all along and you've refused to change.
By the way, nobody believes the dodge. What are you, the fourth person in this thread alone to change his tune mid whuppin' and claim he was trying to prove something else?
You lost. For once in your miserable little life be a man. Just fade away. In a few hundred posts people will forget that you were a sanctimonious idiot with an attitude. Well maybe not forget altogether. You have said some particularly stupid s**t.
By the way, you fail the WWJD test pretty badly. No way you are really a practicing Christian.

Attack on my character rather than responding to why I am wrong... I rest my case. Look at my first posts and I said is exactly what I said here. That both sides have viable ideas but both sides will not listen to the other. The more you people insult me, the more you come in here and tell me that I am an idiot, the more that you attack me the person rather than the arguement just reafirms that I was right.

And now someone will no doubt try to go back and find things that show that this was not the case. YOu will try to find flaws in the logic to try to prove that I was an idiot. And you will resume your attacks telling me that I lost. Well it is hard to lose when your entire point was not to try to prove anything other than no one was going to change their view.

Since you cannot stand NOT having the last word, I will concede by allowing you to have it. So please, continue your attacks on my character. You're right I'm an idiot. I have no case and all I have done is embarrased myself. What was I thinking tp discuss this with people who know better that I do? So I will save you the trouble by just fading away and just allow you to do what I said everyone should have done to begin with...

Let you believe whatever you want and go on with my life.

parent wrote:

It gets down to who you believe God or Scientists. And as scientists are constantly revising their words with extra new findings, I believe it is wiser to stay with the one who never changes his word.

I call bulls**t.

You haven't studied comparative superstitions very much, have you? How many sects of Christianity are there? Do they all kiss snakes? Did you forget why King James financed a new version of the Bible?

Religions don't change in response to fact, they change in response to the material desires of the preacher. Need a new dildo hat? Just gin up a new sin and folks will shed cash into the collection plate trying to buy their way out.

At least science will admit when its wrong and correct itself. You guys generally prefer to kill the people who point out the errors in your superstition.

You know what worries me, folks?

If the Phoenix lander does expose signs of organic life-enabling chemistry during its digs on Mars our Creationist friends will be panicked by such unwelcome news into excelling themselves like never before!

Consider:

1. Such a finding so close to Earth would indicate that precursor conditions enabling organic life are not a rarity in the Universe. Earth is not 'special'.

2. Such evidence would have been found in a place not even mentioned in either the OT or the NT, confirming the limited grasp ancient sheep-herders and tribesmen had of reality as revealed to us by Science today.

3. It would highlight the Bible's limited qualification to answer everything, and by implication the cognitive limitation of any religion instructed by that Bible.

THEN WOULD COME THE REBUTTALS:(take your pick):

4. "The Phoenix probe is a fake. It is just a ploy by Evolution enthusiasts to undermine Scripture".

5. "The entire Mars exploration program is staged in a secret movie lot in the remote Australian Outback".

6. Fearing further unwelcome discoveries, the Evangelical Right will heavy Congress with menaces to halt all funding for the Mars exploration program.

7. Fundamentalists will pressure the Administration to ban all public broadcasts of the Phoenix probe, and close down the NASA Mars Rover website.

8. Fundamentalists will either flat-out deny the Phoenix findings, or they will insist that Mars was the real location of Sodom and Gomorrah before scholars flubbed the Scriptural translation (hence Mars' lifeless state today), and a dire warning for all to return to the Faith before God's test-firing on Mars is repeated on Earth.

9.'Intelligent Design' purveyors will tie up taxpayers money in high profile court cases to have all reports of Mars landings taught in schools as "just a theory".

CONVERSELY, if Phoenix does NOT find precursors to organic life, then:

10. Disregard all of the above. Fundamentalists will crow that Evolution has been exhaustively debunked for all time through a series of confirmed and well-documented Mars probes all financed by the Discovery Institute. With the blessing of sympathetic Congressmen and a billion-dollar grant they will buy up TV Documentary time with a Stephen C. Meyer voice-over.

RSMHobbit wrote:

<quoted text>
Attack on my character rather than responding to why I am wrong...

Why should the guy who's right change to accomodate the guy who's wrong?

The more honest question is why won't you change your mind once you've been shown you're wrong.

Evolution has 150 years of supporting evidence. All superstition has is faith.

Why can't you just take your faith and be happy with it? Does it not sufficiently fulfill you? Why must you come here and argue (unsuccessfully) for validation? Your doubt must have become quite strong for you to lash out so.

The issues are yours. Seek help.

Adelaidean wrote:

<quoted text>
5. "The entire Mars exploration program is staged in a secret movie lot in the remote Australian Outback".

Shhhh!!!! Don't tell anyone, but the outback is just a cover story, they're actually doing it in my garage and I'm getting 5% of the gross....

Littlewolf wrote:

<quoted text>
So Pat, because you can't argue intelegently you attack my spelling?
The truth is truth reguardless how bad my spelling is.

the truth is the truth but knowing what the truth is requires a little education. This is why you lack any understanding of the actual truth.

Bluenose wrote:

<quoted text>
Shhhh!!!! Don't tell anyone, but the outback is just a cover story, they're actually doing it in my garage and I'm getting 5% of the gross....

Sssshh!! I'll zip-the-lip for another 5% of the gross!

parent wrote:

It gets down to who you believe God or Scientists. And as scientists are constantly revising their words with extra new findings, I believe it is wiser to stay with the one who never changes his word.

Can't change your word if you don't exist. Choosing stagnant very wrong dogma over science that revises itself as new discoveries come to light was the wrong choice. You get an F.

Littlewolf wrote:

<quoted text>
Science supports the Belief in God more every day, try reading the book.

You don't learn much on the reservation do you?

RSMHobbit wrote:

Did either side convince you to change your views at all? Christians, are you now athiests? Atheists, have you now embraced religion? I doubt it becuase no one was going to change their views even if they were wrong.

No change here. The theists were not able to back up their claims with evidence. Just-so stories don't make the cut when it comes to scientific explanations.

RSMHobbit wrote:

It proved my point; almost all of you are too entrenched to change.

I try not to be entrenched. If I'm shown to be wrong about a conclusion then I'll change my mind. So far, no one has been able to show that the earth is young, there was a global flood, or that humans are specially created. There is evidence that refutes these three claims and no supporting evidence.

If you want a claim to be taken seriously then pony up the evidence for it!

RSMHobbit wrote:

...
Did either side convince you to change your views at all? Christians, are you now athiests? Atheists, have you now embraced religion?...

I've watch you posts for some time and I know you understand that science does not equate to atheism. So your statement is evidence of your bigotry and willingness to bear false witness whenever it suits your agenda.

You are right though, no one is going to "change sides". But a few might actually learn something about science. They might actually learn that science is not the opposite of religion. Science neither supports or denys religious tenets.

Your ranting do nothing to help this conversation acheive any sort of understanding. In fact you seem to go out of your way to prevent intelligent conversation.

All this arguing is pure obfuscation. The current theory of biological evolution will not go away until something better comes along. It doesn't matter how imperfect it is, there is nothing else available.

The only thing the theistic side needs to do to actually be considered for inclusion is show how their theory of ????(creationism/ID/whatever) supports all of the current evidence AND provides scientists with better predictive capabilities. That's it in a nutshell.

Littlewolf wrote:

<quoted text>
Science supports the Belief in God more every day, try reading the book.

Without realizing you’ve revealed your only source of knowledge. You stated read *the book* which literally would mean read the only book which matters to you. This tells me you refuse to acknowledge any other theory.

Show us where in *the book* science supports the belief in god.

parent wrote:

It gets down to who you believe God or Scientists. And as scientists are constantly revising their words with extra new findings, I believe it is wiser to stay with the one who never changes his word.

So... No learning...? No discovery...?

Just keep the ol' eyes closed...?

Good News wrote:

<quoted text>
And if you like his remarks I send you same regards. If your going to support evolution act like it and stop acting like morons, that's the opposite of what your supporting. Your making me look good in my beliefs.

No, they aren't making you look good in your beliefs. Nothing can help you with those beliefs. Sure, you may express yourself differently, but your beliefs remove most of your credibility in the area of science.

Since joining Topix and doing my best to keep your beliefs out of the science classroom I have been accused of being the Anti-Christ, a Christ-hater, a Christ-Killer, a moron, a Nazi, a homosexual, a Democrat, a Liberal, and an extremely long list of pejoratives statements -- many anatomically impossible -- and the rest pretty damn disgusting. All on the behalf of 'good, honest God-Fearing Christian' folks.

So you can claim the moral high ground if you wish, but after being subjected to such abuse by so many of your fellow believers, pardon me if I occasionally respond in kind. As I am sure the sentiment expressed by quite a few people here.

'Believers' come on and make the same tired old anti-evolution arguments without any actual knowledge of the subject matter and sometimes those supporting evolution get a little short with them. Again after being subjected to their abuse, I don't blame any of them. My suggestion is read the messages for content and ignore some of the wording you disagree with, because the content is what's important here. That's what I try and do, even when I am being called a Nazi-cum-drinking-fudge-packin g-liberal-asshole-Christ-hatin g-son-of-a-bitch by too many of your Christian contemporaries.

And just in case you thought I was exaggerating, go check out a few of the other threads and look for posts from folks like EvolutionDead, Mikrofon, and Wallie-x to just name a few. If you dislike some of the posts here for language, you are going to absolutely cringe at your fellow believers.

Cool Change wrote:

The wing of bird,
The fins of a fish,
The eye of a man,
The heart of any creature,
all evolved from element.
I Think Not!

Just because you do not have the ability to understand evolution doesn't mean it isn't correct. However, you are free to 'think' whatever you want, you just can't teach your 'thoughts' as science in a science classroom.

Your Concsience wrote:

Oh Lord, where are those God Loving scientists?

All around you, since most scientists attend church and believe in God. In fact most scientists say that the more they learn, the more they believe.

What they are not guilty of is a literal reading of Genesis, or other parts of the Bible that you seem to find so comforting.

Littlewolf wrote:

<quoted text>
And true to form, because evolutionist are wrong from the beginning, they will attack anyone who disagrees with them, mainly because the answers don't exsist because evolution is wrong.

Try again LW. For years scientists ignored people like you. It wasn't until organizations like the Discovery Institute, The Thomas More Law Center, the Institute for Creation Research, and Answers In Genesis started trying to impact what is taught in science class that science even bothered to pay any attention to you at all. The problem is not your beliefs, but the lies and deception you practice trying to push your beliefs into the science classroom.

A Sigle Question wrote:

<quoted text>
Wouldn't the laws of thermodynamics be contrary to evolution? I am seeking info here but no one is giving me any responses from the evolutionary crowd.

Google that question yourself. It's been asked and answered many, many times. Evolution doesn't violate any of the laws of Thermodynamics, not a one.

Short answer is because it applies to closed systems, we, nor the planet we stand on, are closed systems.

RSMHobbit wrote:

<quoted text>
Attack on my character rather than responding to why I am wrong... I rest my case. Look at my first posts and I said is exactly what I said here. That both sides have viable ideas but both sides will not listen to the other. The more you people insult me, the more you come in here and tell me that I am an idiot, the more that you attack me the person rather than the arguement just reafirms that I was right.
And now someone will no doubt try to go back and find things that show that this was not the case. YOu will try to find flaws in the logic to try to prove that I was an idiot. And you will resume your attacks telling me that I lost. Well it is hard to lose when your entire point was not to try to prove anything other than no one was going to change their view.
Since you cannot stand NOT having the last word, I will concede by allowing you to have it. So please, continue your attacks on my character. You're right I'm an idiot. I have no case and all I have done is embarrased myself. What was I thinking tp discuss this with people who know better that I do? So I will save you the trouble by just fading away and just allow you to do what I said everyone should have done to begin with...
Let you believe whatever you want and go on with my life.

according to you --- YOU have not said anything -- so you cannot be wrong. you claim to have run a successful TROLL . but that is a lie.

you took many positions along the way (mostly on the side of religious belief) and then you dodged those claims.

all you accomplished was to show that the sciece people here are willing an patient, and the religious like you, are deceptive and stubborn.

But take away your TROLL as a victory, but change your persona ---- some of us respect Tolkien

A little girl asked her mother,'How did the human race appear?'

The mother answered,'God made Adam and Eve and they had children and
so was all mankind made.'

Two days later the girl asked her father the same question.

The father answered,'Many years ago there were monkeys from which the
human race evolved.'

The confused girl returned to her mother and said,'Mom, how is it
possible that you told me the human race was created by God, and Dad said
they developed from monkeys?'

The mother answered,'Well, dear, it is very simple. I told you about
my side of the family and your father told you about his.'