Ron Paul on the Verge of Going Third Party?

Jan 12, 2008 Full story: National Ledger 29,296

Rep. Ron Paul's 1988 Libertarian Presidential campaign started with great promise: A former four-term Republican US Congressman running on the ticket of America's third largest party. via National Ledger

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“UNLESS !!!!!!!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#28534 Jun 22, 2012
Bill R wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice back hand comment at the end, Lorax, but the fact is my
mind is both open and clear while yours seems to be rooted in
favor of providing justification for the federal government to
both create and manipulate a cause that happens to be something
you identify with. By doing so you are betraying free market
principles and genuine conservatism. I am not.
.....
I could give you specific examples of the distortions in every
agricultural commodity, Lorax, but my sense is that you really
haven't much interest because your mind has been made up. I
look at the balance sheets from 2005 and today and cringe at
how ideological policies absolutely destroy the very idea of
free market capitalism.
I must have really hit a nerve this time! Just because I do not have the time at the moment to digest the several posts of your response - but out of respect I will. I will reply to the first and last paragraph now and get back to you on the rest....It was not a back handed comment. You mind is not open to this - evident by the fact that you did not read or understand my previous post. Currently the fed govt is manipulating the market by obvious and outright price fixing per congressional mandate that says what commodity (oil) will determine the energy rate. So if an energy product is deemed(by a measures yet to be determined) more than the subsidized - yes Bill subsidized rate for oil then government agencies including the military can not buy it. Had this logic prevailed a century ago we'd still be using sails. I did not say that subsidies do not exist. I said my business operates without them - preferably; and the government/Congress is taking away market incentives (research and finding a longer term solution) by dictating that government be excluded from development(ie the willingness to allocate some of their budget - just like private industry does to explore alternative product)when they are/would be the primary benefactor of said technological advancement. By condoning this governmental interference you would condone anti-market actions and statism. As to the rest of your rant on subsidies in alternative energy, ag and hopefully others in your diatribe - I will read and respond to soon. But I didn't have to - to know you missed the point. My perspective is one of pure capitalism that is pissed off that a niche client is now restricted from a market, which btw does not affect my company directly because my products DO correspond with oil because we knew the dumb asses would limit growth over the favor and short-sightedness of oil. It is unconstitutional and stupid and spurred only by political contempt. The fact is that the value chain that has different processes and variations of similar products needs to be explored by those willing to pay higher price in some circumstances. The military will in some circumstances pay a deep discount and other situations a very high premium for a variety of reasons. Its part of an open market. None of these are subsidies they are agreed contract price negotiations. Now the military is not the only player willing to do this - they just happen to be one of the largest which by definition and logic adversely and artificially impacts a niche capital market.

“UNLESS !!!!!!!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#28535 Jun 22, 2012
Bill R wrote:
Continuing again this morning, Lorax ....
In my view the price of commodities should be a
matter of supply and demand, except for those
circumstances where weather or natural calamity
creates shortages that create downstream reactions
that the general populace cannot cope with given
their circumstances. At that point in time I
believe it is fair to justify remedial action
under the general welfare clause for the sake of
that populace. It really isn't that much different
from the unscrupulous gas station owner who jacks
up his price from $3.50 a gallon to $6.50 a
gallon when a Level 5 hurricane is coming their
way. Hey, I'll give you $4.50 for having it
ready and able, but go to hell if you try to get
rich over a natural calamity.
Federal interference in the marketplace has
altogether screwed and skewed us to the wall.
They would have you believe it is about farm
subsidies, noting that 80% of those subsidies go
to "industrial" farms. Fair enough, I guess,
but the fact remains that were it not for
federal interference on behalf of the ethanol/
environmental industries would have resulted in
cost-to-consumer prices roughly 40% lower than
we see today on the commodity market.
Just a hint, Lorax. 5 years ago ordinary soymeal,
a basic in raising the protein level of animal
feeds, stood at about $300 per ton downstream.
A few years before it was apologetically at
around $260. It had been there for years and
years.
Today a ton of soymeal is running at an all time
high of $550 a ton. I can assure you that the
added cost will be passed along to you whether
you buy beef or cereal or whatever.
Corn? A decade ago I paid $60 a ton on a good day.
$90 was a really bad day. Today it is not
uncommon to buy a ton of feed corn at $250 a
ton.
You can't blame the weather or industrial ag.
Storage is at a significantly low number.
The real issue is the federal decision to enter
the ag market in a way that would distort the
production of corn. That hitherto "ordinary crop"
became a gold mine because of federal inter-
vention. It took other cropland out of pro-
duction for another commodity and put it into
corn. Speculators capitalized. It invited the
entry of clueless speculators who wouldn't know
kernel of corn from a kernel of truth.
Sorry, Lorax, but the pinheads in Washington
don't have a clue about agriculture, energy, or
the public interest. It is all about an almost
fetish-like devotion to ideology and pseudo-
intellectual nonsense. Given that a cataclysmic
event could disrupt the market I understand the
need for insurance and the need of a government
to even attempt to avoid crazy swings in the
cost of commodities to the consumer. Average it
out and be done with it.
Predictable canned response. Corn/ethanol were indeed a result of direct manipulation and funded primarily by you guessed it big oil. They pushed many of the mandates once they got in the game and rigged the rules for the very few at the top. Soy a commodity that my industry uses from time to time has fluctuated naturally based on differing demands from competing industries including food, fuel, and other applications. We choose to use non-food commodity seed crops if we press virgin oil to produce bio diesel, but mostly recycle used cooking oil. You're are arguing the same thing and dont even realize it. Of course those were mistakes and unwanted intrusions to the market, but why would you remedy those mistakes by reducing choice and price fixing to choose the winner in a single commodity? You bitch about subsidies and price fixing and have no clue or want to admit that it happens with ALL petroleum based fuel products. It does not happen with bio diesel. For a couple of short years the government applied a credit that equaled a fraction of the credits the petrol supplier and blenders enjoy and they revoked that just as the industry was beginning to build its own infrastructure.Be consistent in your thinking Bill a commodity is a commodity.

“UNLESS !!!!!!!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#28536 Jun 22, 2012
For the record the BCAP credits were a type of subsidy. We have never relied on them and they were a fraction of petroleum credits. They presently do not exist. What I would like to see is for Congress to reverse its ridiculous mandate capping all energy expenses with the subsidized value of oil. Return it to an open market like it should be. FtR I am for ending all other ag subsidies traditional or otherwisse and starting from scratch in an open market. Can you afford that on your farm Bill? I can on mine.

“UNLESS !!!!!!!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#28537 Jun 22, 2012
Damn Topix! Always looses my best posts!

There should have been one in between the two above that answered your post on subsidies and your predictable argument Bill. Short story is that Ethanol was fixed and ruined by big oil, Corn sucks because of that and soy has been affected by alternative fuel and food markets and other technologies you probably are unaware of. Bio diesel has never enjoyed subsidy at the level of ethanol or agriculture for that matter. BCAP existed for a few years and then was revoked again at the prodding of big oil. Finally, I do not want subsidy - I want the government out of the business of picking winners and price fixing the market. You have made my points for me and helped argue for the government staying out price fixing markets even if it thinks it will save money in the short term.

“UNLESS !!!!!!!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#28538 Jun 22, 2012
perfect its back - sorry for the redundancy - re-post.
uIdiotRacesMakeW orldPeace

United States

#28539 Jun 23, 2012
The right wing Republicans controls House Of Representatives of 400 members who represents ,gets $150,000 for supporting the big Oil and those still receive 38,000 for their effort.

Yep crony capitalism at work.
Crazy n Nutty Politics

Miami, FL

#28540 Jun 23, 2012
Bill R wrote:
<quoted text>
Regarding the "tie, a movie, a cold beer, and a surprise stripper,"
I can only guess that maybe you scored on 3 of 4.
I never said a tie. I don't wear a tie unless it's formal or I'm in the mood. We know what you got father's day.:)

I'm surprised no one (especially Bill because I directed it at him) got my quote from the admin answering a reporters question on allowing children of illegals to stay. That's where I got the quote from.(another pandering for latino votes)

I've been reading this blog a lot because the perspectives fascinate me. Just not commenting because issues and opinions on the current topic of alternative energy are getting rehashed instead of renewed.

Next on the blog agenda should be the SCOTUS striking down the individual mandate (which by clerks acct is 84% likely to happen).

What is going to happen when the insurance companies cannot reign in enough $$$ to keep promises such as no excluding pre-existing conditions.

Which reminds me of DR. Paul..during the republican primary debates, When asked by Wolf Blitzer if a 30 year old uninsured man with a health crises and no insurance should be left to die, the answer was NO! The audience erupted with shouts of "Let him die". For those that believe in God and judgement day, imagine standing in front of God and defending this willingness to let the sick die without care.

My libertarian ideology is conflicting with my hatred of insurance companies which is conflicting with my love of the free market which is conflicting with my humanitarian spirit.

Wo is me.
Crazy n Nutty Politics

Miami, FL

#28541 Jun 23, 2012
ps..stop corn subsidies. Subsidize fruits, vegetables and beef.

sane..yes...money maker maybe..political contributions ..not likely..

result..subsidize corn
Crazy n Nutty Politics

Miami, FL

#28542 Jun 23, 2012
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/too-bad-libertar...

Strange..I got gary johnson with 84% and ron paul with 72%.

interesting survey from young people.
Bill R

Astoria, OR

#28543 Jun 24, 2012
A special day on Saturday .... given 2 reserved
tickets at the Olympic Trials at Hayward Field
in Eugene .... Tracktown USA, no doubt the neatest
place to attend a track and field event in the
United States.

Moment to remember .... watching 24 year old
Ashton Eaton, an Oregon native and UO graduate,
break the world record in the decathlon. The
final event, the 1500, was an absolutely mind-
blowing experience. The record had stood for
11 years and he was only the 2nd person to
surpass 9,000 points, largely because he won 7
of 10 events.

Best of all, he is a genuinely nice guy.

Sometimes it is nice just to set aside politics
and just enjoy some of the sweet moments in life.

“UNLESS !!!!!!!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#28544 Jun 27, 2012
I am floating around the salt flats in low country for a week. See ya next week.

Since: Jun 12

Brewster, NY

#28545 Jun 27, 2012
If Ron Paul went third party he would certainly get my vote.

If not than I don't think anyone will get my vote.

I am sick of voting for Jack@sses

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#28547 Jun 27, 2012
Politicians that are truthful about these bogus wars will never win a primary

I respect Ron Paul

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#28548 Jun 28, 2012
"The Massachusetts health care insurance reform law, St. 2006, c.58,[1][2], enacted in 2006, mandates that nearly every resident of Massachusetts obtain a state-government-regulated minimum level of healthcare insurance coverage and provides free health care insurance for residents earning less than 150% of the federal poverty level"

John Kingsdale!
Crazy n Nutty Politics

Miami, FL

#28549 Jun 28, 2012
Well, we just lost another freedom. Now we are required to purchase a product from a private company or be penalized. Yes blog readers the "individual mandate" (aka a tax) has been upheld by the SCOTUS.

For those who are ill informed all the promises the insurance companies made, they would only agree to make them if they obtained more money from somewhere else or they would not have made those concessions.(cover kids till 26, pre-existing condition clause, etc) Hence, we FORCE the public to purchase health care product or be fined.

Heck, if I don't drive I'm not forced to purchase car insurance. Yet somehow..maybe if I'm 90 or 30 I'll get sick so I have to make sure I have insurance or else pay a penalty aka TAX.

But I distinctly remember:

“Health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,”
“Nobody considers this a tax increase.”
“You can't just make up that language and decide that that's called a tax increase”
“I absolutely reject that notion that this is a tax increase”
"This is NOT a tax"
"You are STUPID if you think this is a tax."
"This is not a TAX"
"My opponents say this is a TAX, but they are stupid"
"Stop calling this a tax. It is NOT a tax"


SUPREME COURT RULES THAT "THIS IS A TAX" - LOL

Well, at least Romney is going to repeal this when he wins.

All this could've been avoided having people buy into medicare..same thing these state exchanges will provide.
EASY MONEY

Bangkok, Thailand

#28550 Jun 28, 2012
Crazy n Nutty Politics wrote:
Well, we just lost another freedom. Now we are required to purchase a product from a private company or be penalized. Yes blog readers the "individual mandate" (aka a tax) has been upheld by the SCOTUS.
For those who are ill informed all the promises the insurance companies made, they would only agree to make them if they obtained more money from somewhere else or they would not have made those concessions.(cover kids till 26, pre-existing condition clause, etc) Hence, we FORCE the public to purchase health care product or be fined.
Heck, if I don't drive I'm not forced to purchase car insurance. Yet somehow..maybe if I'm 90 or 30 I'll get sick so I have to make sure I have insurance or else pay a penalty aka TAX.
But I distinctly remember:
“Health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,”
“Nobody considers this a tax increase.”
“You can't just make up that language and decide that that's called a tax increase”
“I absolutely reject that notion that this is a tax increase”
"This is NOT a tax"
"You are STUPID if you think this is a tax."
"This is not a TAX"
"My opponents say this is a TAX, but they are stupid"
"Stop calling this a tax. It is NOT a tax"
SUPREME COURT RULES THAT "THIS IS A TAX" - LOL
Well, at least Romney is going to repeal this when he wins.
All this could've been avoided having people buy into medicare..same thing these state exchanges will provide.
Not yet sure how this is going to effect a retired GI, but Americans had best get off their ass and vote that bastard out of office, or you can kiss your ass goodbye. And what happens if your already paying Medicare?
Bill R

Astoria, OR

#28551 Jun 29, 2012
Crazy n Nutty Politics wrote:
ps..stop corn subsidies. Subsidize fruits, vegetables and beef.
sane..yes...money maker maybe..political contributions ..not likely..
result..subsidize corn
Are you discounting the power of a Monsanto?
Bill R

Astoria, OR

#28552 Jun 29, 2012
One and all, I hope you'll take the time to locate
George Will's column on the SCOTUS decision, as it
offers a bit of a different slant that may have a
tremendous effect on the Legislative branch and
the Executive branch to force their will on the
American people.

The fact that the SCOTUS rejected the application
of the Commerce Clause to this ruling is a real
message to the arrogant. Will refers to it as a
"bridle" on relentless seizures of power by the
feds.

A good piece. Go find it.
Bill R

Astoria, OR

#28553 Jun 29, 2012
So ..... now the task is disassembling Obamacare.
Can't do that without a Romney victory and his
pledge to abort the entire thing as his first
executive action.

Vote for Paul at your own risk. There are times
when voting your principles over pure wisdom
becomes narcissistic folly. Do you want to
eradicate Obamacare or not? At this point the
vote seems "not."
I have to take a dump

United States

#28554 Jun 29, 2012
Gary Johnson 2012 Live Free......................

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