Tantric Yoni & Lingam Massage

While I realize that most LMTs will react with horror at massage directed primarily at the sexual organs, tantric yoni (vulva/vagina) and lingam (penis/scrotum) massage seems to be a legitimate (if often mis-practiced) form of massage addressing physiological and psychological needs. There is a well-done German video (84 minutes, called Yoni & Lingam massage, available several places on-line for free download) that shows both types of massage, which I found to be sensitive and very respectful. In my opinion this cannot in any way be equated to a typical "massage parlor" type of happy ending massage - indeed as I understand it a happy ending is undesirable - the intent is to internalize sexual feelings/energy.

In view of the prudery and moral outrage at nude massage, undraped massage, and massage that might even accidently "touch" something considered out of bounds, what are we to make of tantric yoni & lingam massage as practiced by true adherents (as opposed to those that use the Eastern philosophies as a cover for purely sexual ends)? Where does this practice fit within the massage community?

I can't believe you're attempting to legitimize this, "Dr" G.
You don't speak for the massage community. You are a self-taught horndog with no brick-and-mortar massage training who wants to bring eroticism into OUR (not your) profession.

LMT wrote:

I can't believe you're attempting to legitimize this, "Dr" G.
You don't speak for the massage community. You are a self-taught horndog with no brick-and-mortar massage training who wants to bring eroticism into OUR (not your) profession.

I expected and anticipated your reaction in my earlier comments. I am not "attempting to legitimize" anything, only soliciting a dialogue from thinking, open-minded persons. Since you are not an open-minded person, I will ignore your diatribe.

Dr_G wrote:

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only soliciting a dialogue from thinking, open-minded persons.

So why don't you go on the Urology forum and ask a Board-Certified Urologist what he or she thinks about "Lingam" wrestling on the massage table?
Better yet, ask your psychiatrist.

I respect you're opinion about tantric/yoni, lingum massage ! I did learn about sexual energy many yrs ago and find it to be very strong stuff indeed!
In fact, samuri warriers were taught to use thisn energy

LMT wrote:

I can't believe you're attempting to legitimize this, "Dr" G.
You don't speak for the massage community. You are a self-taught horndog with no brick-and-mortar massage training who wants to bring eroticism into OUR (not your) profession.

There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.

Robert wrote:

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There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.

irony is if there was, your post would be knocked off the page. The questions asked by the op Was legitimate. YOur responses were childish. I understand where your coming from, but there is the legitimate therapeutic massage you are advocating, but there are other types of massage out there as well.
What is lacking is communication in regards what's what, and so everything is lumped together in one heading, which can be misleading.
Clarity is needed here.

bemuddled wrote:

<quoted text> irony is if there was, your post would be knocked off the page. The questions asked by the op Was legitimate. YOur responses were childish. I understand where your coming from, but there is the legitimate therapeutic massage you are advocating, but there are other types of massage out there as well.
What is lacking is communication in regards what's what, and so everything is lumped together in one heading, which can be misleading.
Clarity is needed here.

It's interesting that rolfing (myofacial massage to address problems of the whole body), reflexology (foot massage to do the same), reiki (when no actual massage, and perhaps not even touch is used), hot stone massage (where basically the warmth from strategically placed stones does the work), Jin Shin Jitsu ( applying point pressure and/or waving the hands over the body), and many others are "legitimate" forms of massage but massage of an area of the body with perhaps the most nerve endings and the greatest psychological and physiological response is "illegitamate".

I view the human body as a whole. I do not view any part of the body as "dirty" or "evil". When I had certain problems that needed to be addressed by a urologist, that's who I went to. When I have problems relating to the heart and circulatory system, I go to a cardiologist. Feet - a podiatrist. Eyes - an opthamologist (being almost 70 can be a pain - but I do get to know my doctors). But when I seek psychological and physiological relief from stress and relief from strained muscles and ligaments, I use a massage therapist.

I believe massage is a wonderful thing, and cultures throughout recorded history have practiced massage. And whether US LMTs like it or not, Tantric massage was practiced thousands of years before any massage schools were established it the US. My question remains - to a thinking, mature, intelligent, non-judgmental, liberal mind, how should we view tantric massage. I already know how most states treat it, but that does not mean they have it right.

I still welcome a dialogue.

I do reiki, and it's not massage. It is energy work. It can be used to complement other therapies though.

This thread is confirmation that the "nude massage" trolls are really only looking for genital fondling.

LMT wrote:

This thread is confirmation that the "nude massage" trolls are really only looking for genital fondling.

you are coming across as very bitter and angry.
I see exactly what you are saying though.
There are a few on this forum who are as you described. Not all.
And I think that the same person maybe posting as different people clogging up the forum with spam.
But making comments like yours above is like throwing oil on fire. It's not going to help.
Just ignore them.
It makes me questions why I ask for an opinion on something, regardless of content, just in case I offend someone.
Oh, I agree a good lot of the posts are nonsense, but there are a few that are genuine.
Having said that, if I go for a massage it's for legitimate reasons. But It's always good to see what is out there...

Why don't folks that post on these forums and want to pose their ideas, experiences and opinions, or seek advice just keep the conversation between the willing individuals, and IGNORE postings from people like LMT and the like....

Its refreshing to see other points of view.

My wife and I flew to Florida this week (we live in Brazil) and met with a tantric massage practicioner. After about three hours of instruction about concepts of sexual energy and the problems associated with the repressions of society and religion with respect to the reproductive organs of the body, we each had a tantric massage (full-body, including yoni for her, lingam for me). The practicioner guided each of us to participate massaging the other in a 4-hands approach that both educated us as to the methods of sensual massage and the areas of the body to be stimulated. There was no "happy ending", just a blissful relaxation and enjoyment of our entire bodies without shame or embarrasment.

Not everyone is prepared to be that open-minded. However exploration is a natural part of human development, and both of us subscribe to the Army's slogan - "Be all that you can be".

Robert wrote:

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There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.There is no Forum monitor here.

Really! Why not! This forum really needs to be managed! Out of control - they really shoudl create a forum for Sensual/Sexual bla bla bla, and keep it separate. We MTs HATE being associated with this! This is NOT our profession!

NativeBodyworx wrote:

<quoted text>
Really! Why not! This forum really needs to be managed! Out of control - they really shoudl create a forum for Sensual/Sexual bla bla bla, and keep it separate. We MTs HATE being associated with this! This is NOT our profession!

There actually IS a "human sexuality" forum, but these trolls want to instead bash our profession and create the image that an LMT is required to accommodate their sex fantasies.

It really ignites me that these troublemakers try to justify massge therapy as foreplay and masturbation. What is more, each time I enter this forum, there are the most ignorant, inflammatory and unkind post to everything. Why I usually do not go to message boards. People use anonnymity as a license to be wholly uncivilized. If their reputations were at stake with their comunities, famillies, colleague and clients they would need to at least pretend to have some social graces - like they did in the old days before internet and everyting you said and did got around in your community.

Also it is apparent the dirth of character and distrubing lack of awareness between right and wrong.

NativeBodyworx wrote:

Also it is apparent the dirth of character and distrubing lack of awareness between right and wrong.

of course that's just your opinion. You are starting to sound just like what you are criticizing!

The extreme negative reaction about an accepted massage modality of another culture that does not conform to your own concepts of massage is an indication of the smallness of your mind. The associations of US massage therapists are not the definer of universal rules of massage. However, you are entitled to your own opinion, as I am to mine.

The fact that what is not currently acceptable in US culture is rejected for everyone and for all time is absurd. Social attitudes change - but not without the exposure of ideas and dialogue. You may disagree about tantric massage - that is your right. But allow for the possibility that others do not. Free exchange of ideas is not a threat to your profession.

Dr_G wrote:

The extreme negative reaction about an accepted massage modality of another culture that does not conform to your own concepts of massage is an indication of the smallness of your mind. The associations of US massage therapists are not the definer of universal rules of massage. However, you are entitled to your own opinion, as I am to mine.
The fact that what is not currently acceptable in US culture is rejected for everyone and for all time is absurd. Social attitudes change - but not without the exposure of ideas and dialogue. You may disagree about tantric massage - that is your right. But allow for the possibility that others do not. Free exchange of ideas is not a threat to your profession.

I think that what's been said by Mt's that these trolls are looking to degenerate their profession ar a surely sexual sensual rather than therapeutic modality. Not that other modalities of massage are wrong. It's just that massage as a therapy clinically, is not meant to be sexual unless otherwise stated.
So it is frustrating. I can well understand that.
E.g. a doctor doing a prostate exam on a patient, chances are this will go by the numbers, but sometimes arousal may occur. Unintentionally. By both parties.
It's not meant to be sexual in any sense.
Same with legitimate massage.