"Enough Already" With the Anesthesia Turf Wars

The time of the obtuse and uninformed has once again arrived, welcome lwlfnm!

stanley wrote:

The time of the obtuse and uninformed has once again arrived, welcome lwlfnm!

What makes you different from surgical RN? I have met very experienced OR nurses and scrub techs who were helping surgical residents in a heart room. They were able to give residents very professional advices regarding the surgery. They were a great help. They probably would be able to do uncomplicated surgery by themselves. But I never heard them saying their education and experience was equal to surgeon's. Actually anesthesia is the only field where nurses think themselves equal to physicians. Must be a case of severe inferiority complex.

Please, don't get me wrong. Nurses are very important. Without nurses health care system would be impossible. Nurses are a backbone of the hospitals. Nurses are helpers. They help physicians and patients. Nurses work under supervision of physicians. If you want to work without supervision become a physician.

lwlfnm wrote:

<quoted text>
What makes you different from surgical RN? I have met very experienced OR nurses and scrub techs who were helping surgical residents in a heart room. They were able to give residents very professional advices regarding the surgery. They were a great help. They probably would be able to do uncomplicated surgery by themselves. But I never heard them saying their education and experience was equal to surgeon's. Actually anesthesia is the only field where nurses think themselves equal to physicians. Must be a case of severe inferiority complex.

What makes me different then a surgical RN? The question alone exposes your total ignorance of the subject.
1. I practice anesthesia BY LAW AND STATUTE independently of an anesthesiologist in EVERY STATE OF THE UNION.

2. In many other states I practice BY LAW AND STATUTE independently.

3. A surgical RN is not educated and trained to perform an operation independently and may in fact only assist in ortho procedures or general surgical procedures. I by my training practice anesthesia for every type of surgery in every setting.

How on earth can you expect to have any credible opinion if you clearly have no understanding of my education and scope of practice? Please at least make some effort to educate yourself BEFORE you say something else colossally stupid.

I am not talking about politics, laws and statutes. You practicing interdependently because of MDA's shortage. In many places surgeries would be impossible to do without it. Tomorrow we might have OR nurses doing surgeries independently because of economic situation. It hardly would be optimal for the medical science and patients safety.

During WW2 many countries trained pilots for 2 months before sending them to the battle because of necessity. But it was not optimal. They could fly planes and shoot but they weren't aces. You are just under-trained pilot flying out of necessity.

I was a nurse, a surgeon and anesthesiologist practicing medicine for 30 years, double board certified, without a single case of malpractice or complaint against me. I have a clear understanding of your education and scope of practice. Your base of knowledge and skills are limited. You remind me myself in my residency. After two years of training I believed I knew everything.

For being so educated you seem unable to recognize the limits of one (count em one)discredited study and ignore multiple studies showing opposing conclusions.

Your statement also shows a complete ignorance of the history of anesthesia. CRNA's have always rendered the majority of anesthetics, this does not at all support your contention of MDA shortage.
I also find your use of MDA quite curious since most anesthesiologists disown this term as one made up by CRNA's to discredit them.

Finally your stance is neither supported by fact or law I again find it difficult to lend any credence to such an educated background with such a complete inability to recognize evidence. Did you fly the space shuttle as well? Discover the cure for some strange disease, add any other embellishment you like but in the end you are a know nothing.

"I also find your use of MDA quite curious since most anesthesiologists disown this term as one made up by CRNA's to discredit them."

You are funny guy:) When I talk to CRNA I talk as CRNA so you would understand (worked with CRNA a lot). By the way when I talk to the children I talk as a child so they would understand:)

"CRNA's have always rendered the majority of anesthetics"

Barbers have always rendered the majority of surgeries in the past. Not any more. It's called a progress.

I could not care less about you not lending any credence to my educated background.:) State medical boards (I am licensed in 4 states) are good enough for me.

By the way would you mind to enlighten me and provide a link to the studies you are referring to? The only condition - they must not be done by CRNA.

I promise to review them most diligently with open mind:)

studies, a really good one was a meta analysis of 4 studies, each has a weakness as all studies do but the thrust is there is no dicernable difference in care. I realize that there may be it could be that care by CRNA's has a superior outcome or vice versa but practice and studies seem to correlate (no real difference).

http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/4/54...

There was also a study done in 1995 by the minnisota Dept. of health that found no difference.

lwlfnm wrote:

By the way would you mind to enlighten me and provide a link to the studies you are referring to? The only condition - they must not be done by CRNA.
I promise to review them most diligently with open mind:)

Your ego knows no bounds...I practice without MDA supervision and I have practiced in the ACT model... It is your mindset that shoots yourself in the foot... Let me guess ... You are in your late fifties and are completely uneducated to the fact that CRNAs now actually train residents and work independently in all aspects of an anesthetic. Your opinion is one of ignorance and self preservation. You may or may not decide to read any of the literature showing CRNA safety... But your type will find some flaw to refute any findings that may suggest that a nurse anesthetist can practice at a level equal to or better than you. You are very unprofessional in your rants and need to find a better way to feel good about your practice than to come on here and bash CRNA practice. I would never want to work with someone like you and your mentality is only a small reason of many other reasons that I choose to practice without an anesthesiologist drinking coffee in the break room. And it's not be because of a shortage... The hospital I practice at doesn't want an mda and prefers CRNA care because of the quality.

lwlfnm wrote:

Please, don't get me wrong. Nurses are very important. Without nurses health care system would be impossible. Nurses are a backbone of the hospitals. Nurses are helpers. They help physicians and patients. Nurses work under supervision of physicians. If you want to work without supervision become a physician.

If you want to work in a profession where advanced practice nurses do the same job as the physician, then you choose the right profession.