"Enough Already" With the Anesthesia Turf Wars

it's about safety....do you want a crna (nurse) or a physician (anesthesiologist) doing your anesthesia? the answer is obvious...shame on crna for putting patients at risk by pretending to be anesthesiologists........

CRNAs were providing anesthesia long before physicians. Who is pretending? We are educated. You are obviously too errogant and inept to understand that. Even more reason not to allow "you" who one must assume is an anesthesiologist, to provide anesthesia and possibly supervise. You are an insult to your profession.

CRNA... " Safe Anesthesia" is not even an anesthesiologist.. he is a hospital administrator who is bitter at the world ... Ignore his banter... He's been bashing CRNA care all over these threads without any EBP, rhyme, or reason. Nurse Anesthetist will continue to provide great, quality care and whoever this " safe anesthesia" is will be retired talking to himself about the good old days

to the self-styled "anesthesia provider" (AKA: nurse)....what in the world makes you think that I'm a hospital administrator? Stating the obvious about so-called "anesthesia providers" (militant crna who have dangerous delusions) is hardly "banter"..patients have a right to know exactly who is doing their anesthesia..unsupervised crna just aren't safe.....keep whining, nobody is listening. but here is a thought: wouldn't a hospital administrator love to have unsupervised crna???? trying to pad the bottom line with cheaper, unqualified crna rather than anesthesiologists? this is probably over your head.

I'm done with your BANTER... You are irrelevant "safe anesthesia" .

then you should shut up......tell patients that their anesthesia is managed by a nurse (crna) with 2 years of nurse anesthesia training rather than by a board-certified anesthesiologist and they will run for the exit....nurses (crna) are unsafe as solo anesthesia providers and you know this...stop lying,,,or continue to do so; eduacated patients DEMAND an anesthesiologist...any nurses want to argue this in person??? NOPE

I would be pleased to discuss this with you as I have with many others.

It would be my pleasure to enlighten you face to face regarding anything anesthesia.

a face to face discussion would be interesting; I must say one thing: only on the internet have I encountered such hostility between anesthesiologists and crna who want to practice without supervision. perhaps I'm showing my age, but all of our crna are satisfied with the ACT model. patients often have no clue as to who is doing their anesthesia; they trust their surgeon to make sure that they get safe anesthesia......for what it's worth, I'm getting more and more patients asking: "who exactly is going to perform my anesthetic"? we true to assuage a patient's fears and apprehension by telling them the truth; this often means 2 crna being supervised by an anesthesiologist. a fair number of patients ask: "my BC/BS pays the same for an anesthesiologist as a nurse (CRNA); I want an anesthesiologist to do my case". explaining that I agree wth their logic and maintaining reasonable safety is becoming a slippery slope sometimes. I sometimes get verbose when discussing "solo" crna practice; it's not my intent to trash the profession at all. if I have insulted the majority of crna, I apologize for that. using words such as lying etc are inappropriate on my part; in actual practice I see crna as doing a credible job...best wished for 2011

There are multiple factual errors in your post
1. private insurers do not pay the same
2. in reference to your other post in the other thread, "life and death" are in a nurses skill set. Always have been always will.
3. Maintaining safety without supervision is not a slippery slope.
4. You are not "verbose" just rude ignorant and insulting.

I have no idea how or why you are "counseling" patients on there anesthetic but you should probably stop given the massive ignorance you have shown multiple times.

You are in the end an ignorant vainglorious ass-hat, oops sorry for being "verbose".

?

one more example of something going over the head of nurses...............

Has anyone worked with an AA yet?

There's another whole story there.

They can have a Bachelors degree in anything,

and then get an anesthesia degree without any

prior medical training...

I worked with one that was out of school and

had only intubated 2 people. How can this happen?

I am sure that they intubated more then 2 they have 2 years of training, not that I support the AA concept it is just an pliable billing source.

Ive worked with AAs in another state. Great experience. No difference between AA and nurses in my humble opinion. I think its all about $$

I would be interested in exactly what the AA did and the organization of the anesthesia dept.

Did the AA do a preop? Place any blocks or lines or perform a SAB or epidural? Did they handle any post op problems? If your CRNA's do not do this I am sure you did not see a difference. Your CRNA's are limited to an AA's role.

If the AA were in my position you would see a huge difference.

In that group physicians did pre-op, blocks, and lines; which I prefer to be honest. Trained at a program with crnas (no srnas). Never really saw crnas handle "post-op problems" anyway. Anesthesiology residents ran the PACU and ICU with Attending supervision. I prefer AAs because of the current state of anesthesia politics. Atleast when I show up to work I dont feel that simmering animosity that is invariably present amongst nurse anesthetists

Stan, are you a student nurse anesthetist or are you already in practice?

In practice, have done all I describe. Worked with many anesthesiologists well, they do there thing I do mine. The "simmering animosity" occurs when the MD largely supervises or limits practice.

The practice model you describe is one that breed resentment, lines and blocks are not magic spinals and epidural are not magic, Md's reserve them to justify their existence in these practices,(see there is something we do they cannot).

I am sure an AA can practice in that environment, anybody that can put in a tube and turn a dial could.

Stan, do you think the anesthesia training is comparable between physician anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists?