Why bail out the auto industry?

Personally, watching Speaker of the House, Nancy "let em eat cake" Pelosi flip flop on whether to bail out the car industry, I don't hold my breath waiting for her to uphold thousands of jobs for Americans, and the thousands upon thousands of other connected jobs, even temporarily.

Given her leftist record/stance on high gas prices last Summer,,,,closing down Congress and refusing to even ACKNOWLEDGE that the gas prices/grocery prices were a crisis for the average American,,,,,she and her husband went on vacation for several weeks, during which time she and he became heavily invested in The Pickens Plan
(minimum investment $1 million)
(a plan she stated was "bad" for America) and they both stand to profit $$$$$$$$ when the legislation to support The Pickens Plan passes in THIS session of Congress.

She previously stated along with Harry Reid, in support of the radical leftist environmentalists/Greenies that higher gas prices were a "good thing", because it would "force" citizens to drive less and pollute less!

I'll support ANYONE who runs against her!
I believe her constituents should IMPEACH her for treason!

No bailout for GM, Ford,or Chrysler. They have outlived their usefulness. Time to let them go. The U.S. auto industry will not disappear. Forward thinking entrepreneurs will buy up the remains, and rebuild with a new, efficient business model. In the long run, stable jobs will be created, rather than the tenuous ones that would be saved for a year or two by a "rescue plan". The automotive industry is still relatively strong, but American companies have stubbornly stuck to their old ways for far too long. They have become relics of the past. Time to move on.

Constitution Party wrote:

No bailout for GM, Ford,or Chrysler. They have outlived their usefulness. Time to let them go. The U.S. auto industry will not disappear. Forward thinking entrepreneurs will buy up the remains, and rebuild with a new, efficient business model. In the long run, stable jobs will be created, rather than the tenuous ones that would be saved for a year or two by a "rescue plan". The automotive industry is still relatively strong, but American companies have stubbornly stuck to their old ways for far too long. They have become relics of the past. Time to move on.

The average floor worker makes around $73 an hour. Their floor managers make around $48 an hour.
Union's have turned GM into a ridiculous business model. It's almost as bad as what the city council has done to long beach. It can't work without printing or stealing money.
Let it die, regroup. Toyota floor worker's make $28 an hour. Let's start 'em at $25.

let em die wrote:

<quoted text>
The average floor worker makes around $73 an hour. Their floor managers make around $48 an hour.
Union's have turned GM into a ridiculous business model. It's almost as bad as what the city council has done to long beach. It can't work without printing or stealing money.
Let it die, regroup. Toyota floor worker's make $28 an hour. Let's start 'em at $25.

This is exactly why GM & friends should not be bailed out. Overpaid workers producing crappy vehicles. The companies are dying, yet the unions continue to complain that they need bigger paychecks and more benefits. Wake up unions. When you have no paycheck or benefits, maybe you will see the light. You killed off the horse & buggy industry years ago. Your time has come.

Mr. Krauthammer, as usual, is absolutely correct. The airlines and their troubles in recent years are the perfect example of how the system can work to the benefit of both the company and the workers through continued jobs. Chapter 11 allows the company to retool it's bloated union contracts and bring some reason to their costs. In the case of the airlines, it was the costs of pilots, primarily, and some of the higher skilled mechanics. In the case of the big 3 auto companies, as Krauthammer states, the hourly cost of a factory worker is $73 plus all the ancillary costs. The unions, operating virtually unchecked have put American business out of business. If this seems like only a problem of far away Detroit, look at the cost of Municipal and State emplyees, their union contracts, and how much you are paying for Fire and Police protection, among all the other local government employees, how much you are paying for prison guards, and don't forget to add in the absorbitatnt costs of their benefit programs, including early retirement. The Cities too, including yours, will soon be begging for Federal loans, and facing bankruptcy.

no bailout. cut our losses now. if you travel to Japan, you see SOOO many small efficient cars there that we NEVER get the opportunity to buy here. end it now!

In case anyone has a problem adding it up, that hourly factory worker at $73 an hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year is earning $151,840 per year. The last time I was involved in such things, benefits were averaging 1/3 the hourly wage or a further $50,613 per year, and that's assuming that those costs have not increased in the last 10 years, or that these particular union contracts have average costs for benefits, which I doubt. the total then, is $202,453 for a factory floor hourly worker. Pretty absurd.

well, i hope at least SOME of them socked it away since they won't be working for a while and will be needing it....just as soon as their unemployment bennies run out..

If I, or anyone else makes bad decisions, the government isn't there to bail us out. So, why should we bail out Chrysler, Ford and GM for their bad decisions?

The Auto Industry is much like today's California.
The Devil's Partnership between the Unions and the Democrats are driving us into an impossible situation.

We are no better than the those who allowed the Unions to make $73/hr for the Big Three....while Toyota's American workforce is paid $48.

Of course, the Big Three cannot hope to compete. They are very lucky that like California's elected Democrats, Comrade Pelosi and Comrade Reid could CARE LESS about the consequences to the American taxpayer.

Robert J G Jackson Sr wrote:

In case anyone has a problem adding it up, that hourly factory worker at $73 an hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year is earning $151,840 per year. The last time I was involved in such things, benefits were averaging 1/3 the hourly wage or a further $50,613 per year, and that's assuming that those costs have not increased in the last 10 years, or that these particular union contracts have average costs for benefits, which I doubt. the total then, is $202,453 for a factory floor hourly worker. Pretty absurd.

I spoke with a GM worker. He was a lot like the guy on the show "king of the hill." Not a bright fellow. He complained of floor worker's who were dumb as a post, pulling down $73 an hour, when $15 an hour would do fine for the work they were doing.
Thanks to Union's, GM is in it's own bubble. They're super slow to react to changing market conditions. Upper management are 50-something good ol boys who think they know it all. They make next to nothing in their new car division. All their focus is on their truck line, and somewhat their cadillac division. That's all they care about. The cars are made to start having problems by a certain time period.
They make their money in trucking, servicing their intentionally crappy cars, and financing.
Without their financing arm, GM would have bellied up years ago. GM absolutely depends on it.
An executive told me upper management gets occasionally flooded with calls from dealers because a car they had put on the market wasn't failing by a specific time, and even car PARTS that don't fail by a specific time, and the dealer's were losing a lot of money because of this.
GM isn't a car company any more. It's a huge financial gargoyle, distorted by Union's, upper management incompetence, and apathy, enabled by government deals secured by lobbiests, and the public's crack addiction to purchasing debt.
According to Capitalist principles, it should have died 20 years ago, at the latest.
The reason "capitalism is failing" is because of the infection of socialist principals into the quotient.
Any place you see capitalism "failing," you will find it engulfed in the obesity of socialism.
You can have a top athlete, but if the athlete is willing to eat anything, regardless of consequences, he won't remain a top athlete for very long.
Capitalism is dynamic. When you introduce any foreign elements into it's body, there are consequences, that will make it stronger, or kill it.

Jordan Adams wrote:

The Auto Industry is much like today's California.
The Devil's Partnership between the Unions and the Democrats are driving us into an impossible situation.
We are no better than the those who allowed the Unions to make $73/hr for the Big Three....while Toyota's American workforce is paid $48.
Of course, the Big Three cannot hope to compete. They are very lucky that like California's elected Democrats, Comrade Pelosi and Comrade Reid could CARE LESS about the consequences to the American taxpayer.

I could see bailing Chrysler, with union's taking a big pay cut, because at least they sort of try, and somewhat try to keep up. Ford is senile, GM is the anti-christ.

I really don't understand many of you on Topix. Many of you seem to be OK with corrupt and crooked VP'S and CEO's blatantly ripping off their companies, blindsiding investors, causing countless companies to falter and go under, putting hard working men and women out of work, causing countless people to lose their 401k and retirement investments, as well as their homes. All while receiving these enormous golden parachute valued in the millions ensuring their families continued existence in the realm of wealth and prosperity while so so many lose EVERTHING! Why not bailout the American auto makers? We've bailed out AIG, and many other financial giants with hard working tax payers money, why are the automakers so different? You talk about someone being overpaid and earning $73 dollars an hour, what about the heads of these companies with their guaranteed multi-million dollar salaries to be paid even if the company goes under? example the head of AIG paid himself around 400 million while the company was going under, the exec of WAMU paid 112 million for 17 days on the job before they went under. You see the problem isn't the labor it's upper management, you know the one's like that big fat hog of a CEO of mobile that was paid 400 million dollars as a congrats for the inflated 30 billion dollar profit mobile made off of consumers at the gas pumps. But I really can't blame those guys they went into their line of work for one reason to make money,money big money and of course giving a hoot about the average consumer is way at the bottom of their list.

let em die wrote:

<quoted text>
The average floor worker makes around $73 an hour. Their floor managers make around $48 an hour.
Union's have turned GM into a ridiculous business model. It's almost as bad as what the city council has done to long beach. It can't work without printing or stealing money.
Let it die, regroup. Toyota floor worker's make $28 an hour. Let's start 'em at $25.

I agree completely, they've had warning after warning to produce more efficient autos...time to say NO move on. The unions are out of control.

Then we can go after the dock workers union and lower their wages which in turn will lower prices across the board.Hell there's no end to what we can do to make life less complicated. then of course the messiah will take control and everything will be peachie keen.

isnt it ironic wrote:

I really don't understand many of you on Topix. Many of you seem to be OK with corrupt and crooked VP'S and CEO's blatantly ripping off their companies, blindsiding investors, causing countless companies to falter and go under, putting hard working men and women out of work, causing countless people to lose their 401k and retirement investments, as well as their homes. All while receiving these enormous golden parachute valued in the millions ensuring their families continued existence in the realm of wealth and prosperity while so so many lose EVERTHING! Why not bailout the American auto makers? We've bailed out AIG, and many other financial giants with hard working tax payers money, why are the automakers so different? You talk about someone being overpaid and earning $73 dollars an hour, what about the heads of these companies with their guaranteed multi-million dollar salaries to be paid even if the company goes under? example the head of AIG paid himself around 400 million while the company was going under, the exec of WAMU paid 112 million for 17 days on the job before they went under. You see the problem isn't the labor it's upper management, you know the one's like that big fat hog of a CEO of mobile that was paid 400 million dollars as a congrats for the inflated 30 billion dollar profit mobile made off of consumers at the gas pumps. But I really can't blame those guys they went into their line of work for one reason to make money,money big money and of course giving a hoot about the average consumer is way at the bottom of their list.

One of the remedies of that is for government to allow these companies to fail. If there is money to be made, people will find a way to make it happen.
GM could be replaced by someone with vision, and talent. I'd rather the government throw money to startups, than with the old guard.
The first way is funding progress, the latter is keeping things just as they are.

isnt it ironic wrote:

I really don't understand many of you on Topix. Many of you seem to be OK with corrupt and crooked VP'S and CEO's blatantly ripping off their companies, blindsiding investors, causing countless companies to falter and go under, putting hard working men and women out of work, causing countless people to lose their 401k and retirement investments, as well as their homes. All while receiving these enormous golden parachute valued in the millions ensuring their families continued existence in the realm of wealth and prosperity while so so many lose EVERTHING! Why not bailout the American auto makers? We've bailed out AIG, and many other financial giants with hard working tax payers money, why are the automakers so different? You talk about someone being overpaid and earning $73 dollars an hour, what about the heads of these companies with their guaranteed multi-million dollar salaries to be paid even if the company goes under? example the head of AIG paid himself around 400 million while the company was going under, the exec of WAMU paid 112 million for 17 days on the job before they went under. You see the problem isn't the labor it's upper management, you know the one's like that big fat hog of a CEO of mobile that was paid 400 million dollars as a congrats for the inflated 30 billion dollar profit mobile made off of consumers at the gas pumps. But I really can't blame those guys they went into their line of work for one reason to make money,money big money and of course giving a hoot about the average consumer is way at the bottom of their list.

Can't speak for all posters, but alot of them also posted elsewhere as being against the bailout for AIG, etc...None of these companies should be rewarded for poor management. Time to let them die or go the bankruptcy/reorganization route. This will cause them to make sound business decisions to survive, though it seems as if this may be beyond their capabilities. Giving them taxpayer cash will only enable them to survive a bit longer doing the same things that brought them to the edge of the cliff. Bailouts are nothing but band aids to buy time before confronting the inevitable.

Luckily for the Unions, the Democrats in Congress will screw everyon as a pay off for Union contributions. It is the Devil's Bargain.

We should remember that it was the US Big Auto industry that led the drive to reduce costs and to increase income by eliminating ashtrays in their vehicles, offering "smoker packages" at a much higher price. The message is loud and clear. They can do without the many millions of decent drivers who smoke tobacco.

This is little different from Big Auto's long time business practice of charging as "extras" every desired feature including $500 or so for fake chrome Aluminum side strips so buyers might avoid laughter from neighbors because of the "clunky" appearance designed into the vehicle. Is it any wonder Big Auto is at a competitive disadvantage with foreign Automobile manufacturers who give the buyer what he wants at no additional price?

Ronald

We have a long history of major companies taking Chapter 11 in order to reorganized, trim excesses, and become more competitive.

Toyota's American Union workers make 48 per hour.
GM/Ford/Chrysler pay Union workers an astonishing 73 per hour which renders the Companys non competitive.

Being a Calif. version of a Democrat, Pelosi will surely force the taxpayers to fund the "Auto Bailout" purely to insure that the taxpayers pick up the tab without ANY reduction in the Union packages which have destroyed the Auto Industry.

Will Americans be as stupid as California taxpayers and follow Comrade Pelosi's lead?

Ronald wrote:

We should remember that it was the US Big Auto industry that led the drive to reduce costs and to increase income by eliminating ashtrays in their vehicles, offering "smoker packages" at a much higher price. The message is loud and clear. They can do without the many millions of decent drivers who smoke tobacco.
This is little different from Big Auto's long time business practice of charging as "extras" every desired feature including $500 or so for fake chrome Aluminum side strips so buyers might avoid laughter from neighbors because of the "clunky" appearance designed into the vehicle. Is it any wonder Big Auto is at a competitive disadvantage with foreign Automobile manufacturers who give the buyer what he wants at no additional price?
Ronald

I think you may be inadvertently helping the anti-smoking activists, Ronald.
Every time I read one of your posts, I want to put a cigarette out in your eye.