Pagan Morals

Aug 8, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Examiner.com

Unfortunately many Pagans are accused of lacking morals and their moral beliefs of Pagans and, more specifically in the US Wiccans, is very misunderstood.

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“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

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#1
Aug 8, 2012
 

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Incorrect Article.
Wicca and it's morals/rede do not represent the entirety of Pagan Belief and to represent them as such is a lie.

Since: Jun 12

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#2
Aug 9, 2012
 

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I agree with that. I consider myself a Pagan Witch rather then Wiccan, but as so I do follow the Rede, not because it's a "Wiccan" Rede, but because I agree with it, hope that doesn't sound contradictory. The Wiccan Rede doesn't portray Pagan beliefs in it's entirety. However I do believe in Karma, and the 3 fold law, and I personally believe that part of it goes for all Pagans...Shamans, Witches, and Wiccans alike.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

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#3
Aug 9, 2012
 
Pagan Priestess wrote:
I agree with that. I consider myself a Pagan Witch rather then Wiccan, but as so I do follow the Rede, not because it's a "Wiccan" Rede, but because I agree with it, hope that doesn't sound contradictory. The Wiccan Rede doesn't portray Pagan beliefs in it's entirety. However I do believe in Karma, and the 3 fold law, and I personally believe that part of it goes for all Pagans...Shamans, Witches, and Wiccans alike.
That's just it though, the Threefold Law and the rest DOESN'T go for all Pagans. the word PAGAN is a Blanket term covering a variety of different beliefs. Saying Wiccan Precepts, even though they may be something you agree with, apply to All Pagans is the same as claiming the Ten Commandments Applies to Islam. It doesn't.

Since: Jun 12

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#4
Aug 9, 2012
 
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>That's just it though, the Threefold Law and the rest DOESN'T go for all Pagans. the word PAGAN is a Blanket term covering a variety of different beliefs. Saying Wiccan Precepts, even though they may be something you agree with, apply to All Pagans is the same as claiming the Ten Commandments Applies to Islam. It doesn't.
Point well taken

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

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#5
Aug 9, 2012
 
It is a bit of a complex issue.

There are many people that simply consider themselves Pagan and follow a self-styled ecletic Path. But without a doubt one usually influenced by Wiccan books and/or some time spent once persuing the Wiccan path. They have tended to take things from that experience that worked for them and resonated with them and there is nothing at all wrong with that. And as a currently practicing Wiccan priestess who does do the practices, I appreciate that those who follow a path with some, but not all core components of practicing Wicca simply say, "I am Pagan".

In fact I recently read a facinating article (it's at home and I can look it up there when I can), about one of the early Wiccan authors and how his books essentially developed from the non-oathbound portions of his Wiccan coven and open court, pre-initiation. In his and others view at that time, they felt it was inappropriate to term that Wicca, especially since they saw folks go through a some of the classes and eseentially take that back to their own path without persuing further into a coven or initation. Especially if you didn't get along with the only Wiccan group in the area. So, there are things we commonly associate with Wicca and which are commonly practiced by those who are not interested in Wiccan priest/esshood, but who do enjoy the sacredness of mind, body, spirit, and nature as a better way of life. Things like celebrating nature, honoring the Moon, and the study of ethics in living a magical life; of which that particular part of the various full versions of the Wiccan Rede took on. People are funny like that, they like succint maxims, it's the whole logo/brand recognition thingy.

So, I can see both points as valid. Although it was more common in the earlier decades of the Pagan movement that most practioners belonged to a specific practice and often a group. They were either seekers deciding which particular path/religion/tradition to go for, studying and training to lead up to the initiation in that path, or fully living that path as their life, sometimes cross-training so to speak, collecting credentials in another Pagan religion. Which is what probably led to the amalagous creation of what I tend to call Eclectic Pagans in order to differentiate between the term Pagan or Neo-Pagan which also refers to the priest, priestesses and other various practioners of a specific, established path.

And I really like that use of the term Pagan or Eclectic Pagan, etc, personally. Hearing someone decsribe themselves as a Mysti-Wicca-Shaman-Cherokee-No rse-HooDoo-it-All on their witchvox profile just kinda made things more confusing, not less, IMHO.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

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#6
Aug 9, 2012
 
CShine wrote:
It is a bit of a complex issue.
There are many people that simply consider themselves Pagan and follow a self-styled ecletic Path. But without a doubt one usually influenced by Wiccan books and/or some time spent once persuing the Wiccan path. They have tended to take things from that experience that worked for them and resonated with them and there is nothing at all wrong with that. And as a currently practicing Wiccan priestess who does do the practices, I appreciate that those who follow a path with some, but not all core components of practicing Wicca simply say, "I am Pagan".
In fact I recently read a facinating article (it's at home and I can look it up there when I can), about one of the early Wiccan authors and how his books essentially developed from the non-oathbound portions of his Wiccan coven and open court, pre-initiation. In his and others view at that time, they felt it was inappropriate to term that Wicca, especially since they saw folks go through a some of the classes and eseentially take that back to their own path without persuing further into a coven or initation. Especially if you didn't get along with the only Wiccan group in the area. So, there are things we commonly associate with Wicca and which are commonly practiced by those who are not interested in Wiccan priest/esshood, but who do enjoy the sacredness of mind, body, spirit, and nature as a better way of life. Things like celebrating nature, honoring the Moon, and the study of ethics in living a magical life; of which that particular part of the various full versions of the Wiccan Rede took on. People are funny like that, they like succint maxims, it's the whole logo/brand recognition thingy.
So, I can see both points as valid. Although it was more common in the earlier decades of the Pagan movement that most practioners belonged to a specific practice and often a group. They were either seekers deciding which particular path/religion/tradition to go for, studying and training to lead up to the initiation in that path, or fully living that path as their life, sometimes cross-training so to speak, collecting credentials in another Pagan religion. Which is what probably led to the amalagous creation of what I tend to call Eclectic Pagans in order to differentiate between the term Pagan or Neo-Pagan which also refers to the priest, priestesses and other various practioners of a specific, established path.
And I really like that use of the term Pagan or Eclectic Pagan, etc, personally. Hearing someone decsribe themselves as a Mysti-Wicca-Shaman-Cherokee-No rse-HooDoo-it-All on their witchvox profile just kinda made things more confusing, not less, IMHO.
That's just it though, it really ISN'T all that complex. The facts remain, Pagan is a blanket term covering from Asatru to Zoroastrian, while they may have Rules and Rites similar to Wicca and the Rede they aren't Wiccan and are only 'bound' by the Rede and Threefold Law should they personally choose to follow it. The main point I've been making, or trying to make here, is that Wicca is not the end all be all of Pagan Beliefs and the Beliefs of Wicca (the Rede and the Threefold Law) are not Universally applicable across the entire Pagan Spectrum. That's the same as saying the Ten Commandments hold true for all Abrahamic Faiths and they DON'T. I understand there are many eclectics out there, many do follow the Rede, but that still doesn't change the Facts.

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

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#7
Aug 13, 2012
 
I never said it changed that use of the term Pagan. In fact I said it was the originally intended use of the term Pagan or Neo-Pagan and that those that didn't fit into a particular defined path and just called themselves Pagan could use a term like Eclectic Pagan or something to differentiate.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

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#8
Aug 13, 2012
 
CShine wrote:
I never said it changed that use of the term Pagan. In fact I said it was the originally intended use of the term Pagan or Neo-Pagan and that those that didn't fit into a particular defined path and just called themselves Pagan could use a term like Eclectic Pagan or something to differentiate.
Yes, I know that you didn't say it changed the use of the term Pagan, I'm saying it. My point is the term Pagan is a differentiation, terminology to specifically separate a particular group of Religious beliefs from the Abrahamic, Monotheistic beliefs. I believe the issue is that many seem to believe the words "Pagan" and "Wicca" to be interchangeable when they AREN'T.

Since: Apr 11

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#9
Aug 20, 2012
 

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Pagan and Proud wrote:
Incorrect Article.
Wicca and it's morals/rede do not represent the entirety of Pagan Belief and to represent them as such is a lie.
I agree. Seems most of the people who write for Examiner.com (or at least the articles that show up for this forum) have little to no clue about the subject they're writing. IMO this is just another Neo-pagan with little to no knowledge who does not know enough to be able to discern distinct pagan practices from the wiccanized eclecticism that seems to be so common. Note, "Many hereditary Pagans (those who's Pagan path is and has been a family tradition) also follow a set of 161 laws, commonly known as the Ardanes." Uhm, NO. The Ardanes are specific to Wicca, not something among the various hereditary Crafts. They only came to be heard of from Gardner as "the old laws" .... and he introduced them a good 10 years after his coven had been up and running - and even then there were only 30 Ardanes. There have since been several, lengthier, versions that have come along. It's likely the author got the number of there being 161 Ardanes (knowingly or not) from Lady Sheba who founded a Wicca-derivative tradition, American Celtic Wicca.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

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#10
Aug 20, 2012
 
Callisto_ wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. Seems most of the people who write for Examiner.com (or at least the articles that show up for this forum) have little to no clue about the subject they're writing. IMO this is just another Neo-pagan with little to no knowledge who does not know enough to be able to discern distinct pagan practices from the wiccanized eclecticism that seems to be so common. Note, "Many hereditary Pagans (those who's Pagan path is and has been a family tradition) also follow a set of 161 laws, commonly known as the Ardanes." Uhm, NO. The Ardanes are specific to Wicca, not something among the various hereditary Crafts. They only came to be heard of from Gardner as "the old laws" .... and he introduced them a good 10 years after his coven had been up and running - and even then there were only 30 Ardanes. There have since been several, lengthier, versions that have come along. It's likely the author got the number of there being 161 Ardanes (knowingly or not) from Lady Sheba who founded a Wicca-derivative tradition, American Celtic Wicca.
Heck, from what I read half those writers haven't gotten past the "Fluff bunny" stage of their practices.

Since: Apr 11

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#11
Aug 21, 2012
 

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Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>Heck, from what I read half those writers haven't gotten past the "Fluff bunny" stage of their practices.
Not surprising as it seems there is an ever decreasing effort at genuine studies, with lessening regard for knowing anything other than what one either "makes up as he goes along" and the regurgitated misinformation from forums and blogs. "Respecting another's right to practice" is erroneously equated with having to accept any amount of unfounded nonsense because someone sez so. And anyone who points such out there's a difference is just being "elitist and a hater." :\

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