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PVP GreenLight Laser Treatment

Posted in the Prostate Cancer Forum

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Hugh

Honolulu, HI

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#578
Jan 31, 2012
 
Henry thanks for sharing ... do you now if the dr. stayed away from your bladder neck during the surgery as I have gather from researching that this is the key to the RE.
At least it has gone antegrade maybe not like it was though yet.
I was reading on another site that taking semenex would help with volume.
sudafed in high dosages and semenx.... sudafed more than 2 makes me way to wired.
I do hope in time it goes antegrade.
If any one else has had the dr. stay away from the bladder neck and got RE and in time went antegrade please share.
I'm glad I found this blog Thanks H
Dwight

Melbourne, Australia

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#579
Feb 3, 2012
 
Bill wrote:
Green light laser surgery performed 1/24/12....no other way gentleman.....out of hospital next day....
Yes I agree. Had mine at 9AM nov 15, 2011. Left hospital without catheter by 2:#)PM same day, and I was out taking photos, and window shopping (as I had my PVP inter state private hospital).
Dwight

Melbourne, Australia

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#580
Feb 3, 2012
 
RETROGRADE EJECULATION

The loss of the bladderneck muscle during PVP (and other non Laser procedures such as TURP), is the cause of antegrade ejeculation.

BPH is caused by enlargement of the LATERAL, and MEDIAN lobes of the prostate. The bladdernech muscle lies beneath the MEDIAN lobe.

Therefore those who suffer BPH, and have only Lateral lobe enlargement, are those patients you hear retain antegrade ejeculation.

I had both lateral and (gross)median lobe enlargement. So I am not surprised that PVP left me with RE. I have had my post PVP appointment but was unable to discuss this further with surgeon because he was unfortunately away ill on the day of my consulatation.

Here is an observation. The quantity of the clear pre ejeculation fluid coming out seems to have increased. I have heard that this is a precursor to regaining antegrade ejeculation. Fingers crossed (and legs crossed too????)
rockman

New Smyrna Beach, FL

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#581
Feb 6, 2012
 
Green Light waste of time. 2 mo out everything 95%
BACK TO PRE SURGERY PROBLEMS.Regular urologist could not tell it was done by any tests he preformed. last wed. Did all Flo, residual DRE Etc. never told I had Op. states I need to have it done.
Still does not know.
NUTS? I have a NON involved true evaluation.
Hugh

Honolulu, HI

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#582
Feb 8, 2012
 
Is there any one who had green light laser and retro grade ejaculation and in time has normal ejaculation ante grade. I am 1month 10 days post greenlight and I have anegrade ejaculation dry orgasm no evidence in the urine.
I had a big concern about this before the surgery and went to the Mayo clinic to have the surgery performed. My doctor was fully aware of my concern and stated that he stayed away from my bladderneck and the fibers over it.
I do not now if the laser damaged the ejaculation ducts.
If some one has had a procedure like mine (avoided of the bladder neck)
had retro grade at first and then in time had the luck to have antegrade/normal
ejaculation .....do share. I am trying find a rough estimate of time if this can heal in time or if it is a permanent situation/condition.
I need to hear a success story. From all the research I have been doing there isn't anything to reverse the condition. I'm hoping I will heal healthy and not have this condition. thanks for any help and I wish you all good health. H
Henry

Clearwater, FL

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#583
Feb 9, 2012
 
Hugh wrote:
Is there any one who had green light laser and retro grade ejaculation and in time has normal ejaculation ante grade. I am 1month 10 days post greenlight and I have anegrade ejaculation dry orgasm no evidence in the urine.
I had a big concern about this before the surgery and went to the Mayo clinic to have the surgery performed. My doctor was fully aware of my concern and stated that he stayed away from my bladderneck and the fibers over it.
I do not now if the laser damaged the ejaculation ducts.
If some one has had a procedure like mine (avoided of the bladder neck)
had retro grade at first and then in time had the luck to have antegrade/normal
ejaculation .....do share. I am trying find a rough estimate of time if this can heal in time or if it is a permanent situation/condition.
I need to hear a success story. From all the research I have been doing there isn't anything to reverse the condition. I'm hoping I will heal healthy and not have this condition. thanks for any help and I wish you all good health. H
The Dr.said he was aware of the problem and will do what he can to avoid this side effect. He was not specific about how he was going to avoid the retrograde.
rockman

New Smyrna Beach, FL

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#584
Feb 9, 2012
 
Check my profile With input on Mayo Jax. Fl.. I walked out when I determined they were Lying about Exp. of the surgeon in Sep 2011. I was to be done in morning.
I was told he was well past learning curve by manufactures standards. That are Minimum of 50. Doc had apox 10. This for 80 Plus Grain prostate.
Is that like apox. 10 acres that the survey says is 4 ??
evans phillips

Johnston, IA

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#585
Feb 9, 2012
 
izm suppose to schedule this surgery next 2 3 weeks scared to death they want to do a biopsy somthing growing on bladder and postate is this painful long lasting etc etc then while in there green laser the postate each sid to make larger rethrol foreasier flow should i do the first not the second procedure biopsy for cancer test but dont know about green laser procedure iam 74 years old ?????? iam at wildchief52@yahoo.com
evans phillips

Johnston, IA

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#586
Feb 9, 2012
 
am afraid of green laser need to schdule going to do biopsy on protate and bladder is this ok and not painful cab do this but laser scares me and ive read some mens comments in your literature dont sound to good
Dwight

Melbourne, Australia

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#587
Feb 10, 2012
 
I had Prostate BIOPSY in September. This is routine procedure to eliminate prostate cancer as cause of high PSA levels in a person. BPH also causes elevated PSA levels. I can assure you the BIOPSY was a breeze. One minute I am wheeled into the room to be administered anathestetic, the next ... I awoke .. and it was all over. Just stay away from ejeculation for 3 weeks if you want to avoid blood in your semen.

Had PVP Greenlight on Nov 15, 2011. Again, this was a breeze. Surgery at 9AM, and I was out of hospital, and sightseeing, by 14:30. The burning sensation during urination lasted all day on day of surgery, but was gone when I woke up next day.

I currently have RETROGRADE ejeculation although the clear liquid, pre ejeculate, seems to be increasing in quantity, when I orgasm. I had asked the surgeon to do what he can to lety me retain ANTEGRADE ejeculation, and he said he would do what he can. He was honest in saying that he tell his patients that RETROGRADE ejeculation is 100% even though there are patients who either do not suffer this, or regain it over time.

I am up to the 3 month post surgery period. This is still too early to expect regaining my normal (antegrade) ejeculation if I am ever to get it back. I have heard various time frames for it to come back (no guarantee it will and it is different in every guy). A useful guide would be 12mths to 18mths - i.e. when your normal ejeculation will return.

LASER surgery gives the QUICKEST recovery time. I was back to running 2 weeks after surgery. The only time when thetre was blood in the urine was on the day of surgery. By the morning after the surgery, I couldn't see blood in the urine. By day 30, my urine was completely blood free after my runs.

Generally, the younger the patient, the quicker the recovery.

I was EXTREMELY NERVOUS before my biposy in Sept, and my PVP in Nov. That is NORMAL and UNDERSTANDABLE!!!!!! Looking back, both procedures were a BREEZE!
Dwight

Melbourne, Australia

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#588
Feb 10, 2012
 
Hugh, I think you had a typo. DRY orgasm = RETROGRADE ejeculation. Wet orgasm = ANTEGRADE ejeculation.

Have you read your surgeon's report?" What does it say about your LATERAL & MEDIAN LOBE of your prostate?
rockman

New Smyrna Beach, FL

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#589
Feb 10, 2012
 
evans Biop. no problem.I Have had 6 at this point over 10 yrs. Greenlight some good, some bad, mine was bad done 12/13/11. Yesterday Doc wants to go back in 1st for pressure tests?? whatever that is. week later do second for cysto look around. Determine why, I don't go any better than before OP.
Refused for 8 weeks till I come off Vacation trying to do Australia, before winter sets in.
Hugh

Honolulu, HI

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#590
Feb 12, 2012
 
Dwight , thanks for the reply.. my dr. talked with me a few weeks ago and i spoke with a co dr. of his. I will try and speak with the other dr. soon, as he had more time to talk. my dr. is the one in high demand.
I will ask again about the median lobe. I too am active and I just turned 47 so I'm impatient is all. If my retro returns to normal I will be very pleased as the whole procedure has not been a big deal.... and completely emptying my bladder a joy.
I found another blog mobu and read more and quite a few guys wrote having the retro reverse anywhere from 8months to a year plus.
So I feel a bit more optimistic now ...I just can't stand the dry/ anegrade grade ejaculation ..the drs. said when there is no evidence dry...it's called anegrade.
antegrade is normal and what I want to return.
my greenlight was done end of Dec. 2011 so your 6weeks earlier.
I'll check back ...to hear of any improvements. all the best .
good day mate
rockman

New Smyrna Beach, FL

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#591
Feb 13, 2012
 
100% retro now hope it comes back is weird.
NJRetiree

Cresskill, NJ

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#592
Feb 15, 2012
 
Lou,
I'm scheduled for a PVP with spinal in two weeks. I just wondered how long it took to regain the ability to walk after the spinal. I'm anticipating this being ambulatory and the procedure should take about a half hour. I am hoping to go home with a catheter. But I would like to know how long did it take for the spinal to wear off, to the point where you regained feeling in your legs and could get up and walk?
Thanks.
Lou from Florida wrote:
TURP vs PVP
I’ve been reading this site for 3 yrs and thank everyone for sharing their experiences. I’m 56 and have had BPH for 10 yrs. I had indigo laser 5 yrs ago. It helped a bit but not for long. My symptoms continued to worsen to where urinating became very difficult and the urgency extreme. Flomax and Avodart did not provide sufficient relief. I knew surgery was inevitable but held off as long as I could.
In addition to extensive online research I visited 3 different urologists. I also had all the usual tests. The first uro recommended a TURP but was cavalier re. retrograde ejaculation (100% certain with either procedure and “so what”). The second also said TURP but didn’t do PVP. So I set out to find a doctor with extensive experience in both.
That was Nicolas Muruve of the Cleveland Clinic in Weston. He said he’d do whichever procedure I wished but also favored TURP. However, he went into considerable detail on the pros and cons of each: With TURP, patients get immediate relief whereas most PVP patients experience burning and urgency for 2 months or so. He believes that, at the hands of a competent surgeon, risks of TURP and PVP are comparable. Retrograde is a likely outcome of either procedure when tissue is removed near the bladder neck. This was consistent with my own research. The only sure way to reduce the likelihood of RE is to work on the lower lateral lobes of the prostate only. For most patients this may not provide sufficient or longlasting relief. Since my problem was an enlarged median lobe obstructing the bladder neck, RE was highly likely with either procedure.
So, after years of swearing I’d never have a TURP, that’s what I chose. My procedure was done 8 days ago. I checked into the hospital at 1 p.m. on a Thursday and had surgery at 5. I had a spinal block so I was awake during the entire procedure which lasted only about 20 minutes. I spent one night in the hospital with a catheter that was removed at 10 the next morning. I had no pain whatsoever, even after the spinal wore off. After ascertaining that I could urinate on my own, the hospital released me at 1 p.m. on Friday.decision.
NJRetiree

Cresskill, NJ

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#593
Feb 16, 2012
 
Dennis,
I am 65 and scheduled for the PVP in 13 days. I had the TUMT almost 2 years ago after a complete retention and catherization of 1400cc's of urine at the ER. I learned to catherize myself and have had to do so about a half dozen times in the last 2 years. I have been on flomax for a few months again this time and it again has gotten less effective. My PVR is about 200cc and a cat scan measured my prostate as slightly larger than a regulation baseball,(somewhere around 150 grams?). About 1/4 of the prostate is encroaching on my bladder. I am going for the PVP in 13 days and will be under spinal rather than general anesthesia. Presently I have a weak stream and am up anywhere from once to 5 or 6 times at night. Sometimes I experience a transitory retention in the early morning. It seems certain foods (spicy, Italian, hard cheeses, red wine) aggravate my bladder making the nocturia worse, but it's inconsistent.
I'll keep my fingers crossed I have as good an experience as you did. Thanks for posting and giving me some hope.
Dennis wrote:
"I am 52yrs, had the procedure 5 months ago.
I had the PVP done because I was getting up at night up to 6 to 7 times. During the day, I always needed to know where a restroom was. My enlarged prostate was also affecting my sex life. I am very sexually active, so I was very apprehensive about the procedure. But since it was affecting that part of my life also, I had it done. So this is my 5 month update.
The first month after, I had blood in my urine, and a strange sensation at the tip of my penis after urinating. The first time I ejaculated, it came out forcefully, but with blood in the semen. That was the last time I had external semen ejaculation "retrograde ejaculation!" Up until about one month ago, I hated the "RE". But I am now use to it, the sensation almost feels the same now. But after an orgasm I will have a strong urge to urinate about 3 time within 10 minutes. I believe this is due to semen in the urethra. My wife actually likes the RE, "no fuss, no muss!!!" I have read that RE can reverse itself within a year as the prostate reforms.
As far as urinating, I now piss like a race horse! Even as a teenager, I never had so much volume. I may now only get up once, or at the most twice at night now. I still have to stand at the urinal longer than I use to, to make sure it is all out though. I hope this can help a few people that have just had PVP done, or are thinking about it. I will post another update at the year mark."
Ok the above post was my post back in March 2011. It has now been one year post PVP. So as promised I will post my results after one year.
i. I still piss like a race horse :), so the main objective of the surgery has worked.
2. My doctor also told me that retrograde ejaculation was about 100%. And I have little reason to doubt him, but!
I have noticed my orgasms feel completely normal now. Before at the completion of the orgasm, I would get a strange sensation that I believe was the seamen going backwards. This sensation would diminish the pleasure of the orgasm. Now that I believe my prostate is starting to reform, I get about 1 to 2 drops of seamen ejaculating out. So I believe it is now starting to push the seamen in the right direction, hence the normal orgasm sensation. "Thank God!"
3. I get up about once at night to urinate.
4. No extreme urges to urinate during the day.
5. I think my bladder empties out almost completely, no way to really tell.
6. I am happy I got the procedure, I am just hoping my ejaculations will become as close to normal as possible in the near future.
I realize every one is different. So my results may not be your results. But it always seems like most people that post are either the individuals that have had complications, those that are looking for information about PVP, or those that just had it done and are worried.
I thought it would be good to post, "what I think is a positive result so far" post op one year.
Dwight

Melbourne, Australia

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#594
Feb 25, 2012
 
NJRetiree wrote:
Dennis,
I am 65 and scheduled for the PVP in 13 days. I had the TUMT almost 2 years ago after a complete retention and catherization of 1400cc's of urine at the ER. I learned to catherize myself and have had to do so about a half dozen times in the last 2 years. I have been on flomax for a few months again this time and it again has gotten less effective. My PVR is about 200cc and a cat scan measured my prostate as slightly larger than a regulation baseball,(somewhere around 150 grams?). About 1/4 of the prostate is encroaching on my bladder. I am going for the PVP in 13 days and will be under spinal rather than general anesthesia. Presently I have a weak stream and am up anywhere from once to 5 or 6 times at night. Sometimes I experience a transitory retention in the early morning. It seems certain foods (spicy, Italian, hard cheeses, red wine) aggravate my bladder making the nocturia worse, but it's inconsistent.
I'll keep my fingers crossed I have as good an experience as you did. Thanks for posting and giving me some hope.
<quoted text>
PVP was a breeze for me when I had it on Nov 15, 2011. I left the hospital, catheter-free, 5 hours after surgery.
NJRetiree

Cresskill, NJ

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#595
Feb 25, 2012
 
Dwight,

Thanks for the reply. How are you now? How was the recuperation period?

Thanks,

Bob
Dwight wrote:
<quoted text>
PVP was a breeze for me when I had it on Nov 15, 2011. I left the hospital, catheter-free, 5 hours after surgery.
NJRetiree

Cresskill, NJ

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#596
Feb 29, 2012
 
Strange day today. Was scheduled for the Green light PVP at 7AM this morning. Got through pre-op fine when they noticed my BP had spiked to 217/115. Tried to relax and it went higher to 238/135. The anesthesiologist cancelled the procedure and wanted to put me in the ER but I refused and signed out AMA (against Medical Advice). Got home, had coffee and a full breakfast and took a flomax. Checked my own BP a half dozen times during the day and it was 140/80 the whole rest of the day. I am thinking I screwed up by not taking my Flomax the last two dayss. I thought I wouldn't need it anymore. It must have caused my BP to spike. Other weird thing I noticed after reviewing my own records today was that from last Oct to this Feb my PSA rose from 5.5 to 8.9. Also checked the mass of my prostate based on a November UltraSound, and January Catscan with contrast. A formula for prostate mass I have seen is height x width x length x pi/6.(pi/6 is roughly .5). Multiplying the ultrasound and catscan measurements gives me a November volume of 106 g. and a January volume 10 weeks later of 203 g. Will see an internist tomorrow.
Can't see proceeding with the GL until I get an answer of how my prostate could double in size in 10 weeks.
NJRetiree

Cresskill, NJ

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#597
Feb 29, 2012
 
Wow, Google can really provide some good info. I found this 2003 article in the International Journal of Radiation Oncology that says Cat scans are found to consistently overestimate prostate volume by 50% compared to Ultrasound measurements.

http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016 (03)00509-1/abstract

"Conclusion:
A strong correlation was found between CT scan and TRUS measurement of the prostate volume; however, CT consistently overestimated the prostate volume by approximately 50% compared with TRUS."

Based on this my January prostate volume should be around 137 g. rather than 206 g.

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