Homosexuality against natural law

fedupwiththemess wrote:

<quoted text>Well...the relationship is wrong to begin with and no life is promoted from the relationship. That is how.

And, in other words, in your opinion it's wrong there for it's wrong. No attempt at explaining how it would damage the institution just more regurgitation of your previous gum bashing. And, if the conclusion is that no off spring are produced or life promoted, that would mean all marriages which do not produce children are as sinful. Still waiting for an answer.

Janitor wrote:

<quoted text>
And, in other words, in your opinion it's wrong there for it's wrong. No attempt at explaining how it would damage the institution just more regurgitation of your previous gum bashing. And, if the conclusion is that no off spring are produced or life promoted, that would mean all marriages which do not produce children are as sinful. Still waiting for an answer.

You'll have to wait a long time, what you've seen is the peak of her debating skills. Her only strategy is to repeat something over and over in the hopes that someone will finally believer. IOW, a complete and total wast of time and energy. I'd rather argue with a fence post myself, that's just me;0)

Janitor wrote:

<quoted text>
I doubt the Nazerenes ever pursued the idea that Mary was the subeject of child birth through a drunken orgy with some nomadic herders, which you presented as a theory previously. And, if you think the topic of discussion is decided why are you here in the first place?

i never said that the nazarines said so... i said, i believe, that it's a theory that many theologians espouse.

i am here simply for the sake of the many people who read these posts, but may never say anything. you see, many come online searching for answers as to why they are different, or feel different, or why society in general seems to hate them. it is our job to insure that they, and especially the younger ones, can come to the realisation that they are not a bad person simply because they were born gay and try to help repair the damage done by the lies told them by churches, society in general and even their families.

ltndncr59 wrote:

<quoted text>
There was much punishment for homosexuality? Where, in the name of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph does THAT appear in the Bible? And before you even go to the story of Sodom and G'morrah, first read Ezekiel, where the sins of those cities are enumerated very clearly. Homosexuality is notably absent from the list.
Now, where in the bible did this "punishment" for homosexuality take place?

Might as well keep attacking me, I can take it.

The purified minds of Christians are to be stirred up, that they may be active and lively in the work of holiness. There will be scoffers in the last days, under the gospel, men who make light of sin, and mock at salvation by Jesus Christ. One very principal article of our faith refers to what only has a promise to rest upon, and scoffers will attack it till our Lord is come. They will not believe that he will come. Because they see no changes, therefore they fear not God, Ps 55:19. What he never has done, they fancy he never can do, or never will do.

dances with weebles wrote:

<quoted text>
i never said that the nazarines said so... i said, i believe, that it's a theory that many theologians espouse.
i am here simply for the sake of the many people who read these posts, but may never say anything. you see, many come online searching for answers as to why they are different, or feel different, or why society in general seems to hate them. it is our job to insure that they, and especially the younger ones, can come to the realisation that they are not a bad person simply because they were born gay and try to help repair the damage done by the lies told them by churches, society in general and even their families.

I appreciate your freedom of speech. I am here for the same reason. God does not pick on one particular sexual sin, they all are fleshly sins.
Sex outside of God's loving laws can never fully satisfy. Go the wrong way on this from the start, and you will find that sex can hook you worse than any drug, and with as dangerous consequences as any chemical.(Eph. 5:3-9)
To say that one was born a homosexual is to say that one has no free will. The fact is that there are thousands of homosexuals who have changed their ways. If only one person has changed that would prove it is possible. Furthermore, the Bible tells us to turn from our sinful ways which indicates it is possible otherwise it wouldn’t tell us to do it

Janitor wrote:

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Round and round we go indeed. So, now you are saying Jesus wasn't God? He would have spoken on the subject if he felt it was such an abysmal sin, I am sure. He had no compunctions where divorce was concerned and more Christian divorce than non Christians, and repeatedly I might add. And, keep your opinions, aka, judgments on the state of my "sinfulness" to yourself. You are in no way capable of judging me. And, by the way you brought that bit about judging hypocritically up, not me. Since you're being hypocritical you should certainly know what sin is, according to your own presentation.

Every heard of the trinity! Please be unconcerned about messages from God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit. Just ignore...peace out and God Bless You!!!

Being gay is ok. Stay out of my bedroom you perverts.

Weebles how can you call yourself a christian pastor when you think everyone mentioned in the bible is gay. You doubt the virgin birth. You act like the bible does not condemn homosexuality. I doubt you believe the bible. You act like the God of Israel was created by another god. If you despise our christian faith so much "get out of it" You make yourself look like a fool. Calling yourself a "christian pastor" then you bash all things we christians hold sacred. Sounds to me like you have been allowed to believe a lie and now your damned.

Isabella wrote:

<quoted text>
Might as well keep attacking me, I can take it.
The purified minds of Christians are to be stirred up, that they may be active and lively in the work of holiness. There will be scoffers in the last days, under the gospel, men who make light of sin, and mock at salvation by Jesus Christ. One very principal article of our faith refers to what only has a promise to rest upon, and scoffers will attack it till our Lord is come. They will not believe that he will come. Because they see no changes, therefore they fear not God, Ps 55:19. What he never has done, they fancy he never can do, or never will do.

You failed to answer my question. Where in the bible does G-d punish homosexuals? It's a pretty easy question, or at least it should be, for someone who professes such a profound biblical knowledge. Let me ask again, in case the question missed it's mark:
Where in the Bible does G-d punish homosexuals?

Mike L wrote:

Being gay is ok. Stay out of my bedroom you perverts.

What makes you think that any of us would want to find our way to your bedroom? Is your opinion of yourself that bloated?

Isabella wrote:

<quoted text>
Might as well keep attacking me, I can take it.
The purified minds of Christians are to be stirred up, that they may be active and lively in the work of holiness. There will be scoffers in the last days, under the gospel, men who make light of sin, and mock at salvation by Jesus Christ. One very principal article of our faith refers to what only has a promise to rest upon, and scoffers will attack it till our Lord is come. They will not believe that he will come. Because they see no changes, therefore they fear not God, Ps 55:19. What he never has done, they fancy he never can do, or never will do.

By the way, here is the post that you responded to, accusing me of attacking you!

"There was much punishment for homosexuality? Where, in the name of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph does THAT appear in the Bible? And before you even go to the story of Sodom and G'morrah, first read Ezekiel, where the sins of those cities are enumerated very clearly. Homosexuality is notably absent from the list.
Now, where in the bible did this "punishment" for homosexuality take place?"

Now, where in that exactly do I attack you?

ltndncr59 wrote:

<quoted text>
By the way, here is the post that you responded to, accusing me of attacking you!
"There was much punishment for homosexuality? Where, in the name of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph does THAT appear in the Bible? And before you even go to the story of Sodom and G'morrah, first read Ezekiel, where the sins of those cities are enumerated very clearly. Homosexuality is notably absent from the list.
Now, where in the bible did this "punishment" for homosexuality take place?"

Now, where in that exactly do I attack you?

You can't dismiss Sodom and Gomorrah. That was God's anger against all the sexual sins. God warned man, if they continued in the fleshly sexual sins, he would bring about His judgment (I would think diseases pretty much covers that). Sexual sins are running rampant right now. The Bible warned us this would happen in the last days. God's message is very clear about sexual perversion in Romans 1:18-32
27-And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

There were sexual diseases in Jesus's days and none more true than today.

Twenty years ago there were two sexually transmitted diseases. Now there are twenty-nine. Every nine months they find a new one. Twelve million people contract a sexual disease every year in the US alone; 33,000 a day. Some, like AIDS, will kill you in just a couple of years. Some will just make you wish you were dead. Some will hurt your children.
"If you were the Devil" said one AIDS researcher "You couldn't conceive of a disease more disruptive and disturbing than one sexually transmitted that kills within a short period and for which there is no treatment." There is only one way to be sure you don't get a crippler or killer disease through sex but no one wants to say it: abstinence (what a dirty word), to be a virgin when you get married (man and woman biblically speaking)
That's God's plan. If you take a long look at the ugly alternatives, it looks like He knows what He's talking about.

Isabella wrote:

<quoted text>
You can't dismiss Sodom and Gomorrah. That was God's anger against all the sexual sins. God warned man, if they continued in the fleshly sexual sins, he would bring about His judgment (I would think diseases pretty much covers that). Sexual sins are running rampant right now. The Bible warned us this would happen in the last days. God's message is very clear about sexual perversion in Romans 1:18-32
27-And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
There were sexual diseases in Jesus's days and none more true than today.
Twenty years ago there were two sexually transmitted diseases. Now there are twenty-nine. Every nine months they find a new one. Twelve million people contract a sexual disease every year in the US alone; 33,000 a day. Some, like AIDS, will kill you in just a couple of years. Some will just make you wish you were dead. Some will hurt your children.
"If you were the Devil" said one AIDS researcher "You couldn't conceive of a disease more disruptive and disturbing than one sexually transmitted that kills within a short period and for which there is no treatment." There is only one way to be sure you don't get a crippler or killer disease through sex but no one wants to say it: abstinence (what a dirty word), to be a virgin when you get married (man and woman biblically speaking)
That's God's plan. If you take a long look at the ugly alternatives, it looks like He knows what He's talking about.

Let's stay on the question of whether G-d punished homosexuals. And DID you read Ezekiel? In particular, the chapter and verse in which the sins of Sodom are listed quite clearly?

THE OLD BORNGAY wrote:

<quoted text>
as Judge Judy would say to her/it .. "You're a Nut!"

I can see that ;)

ltndncr59 wrote:

<quoted text>
There is not a single instance of a homosexual saying that he or she chose to be gay. Not one single instance.
In cultures where death is the penalty for homosexuals, we still appear. Why would somebody raised in a culture that punishes homosexuals with death choose to be gay?
Every major medical and psychological organization in the free world has made statements to the effect that sexual orientation is not a choice.
Taking all of these things into consideration, and also taking into consideration the fact that YOU could not choose to be gay, why are you insisting it's a choice?

I had to think about that. Does a person in the ex-gay denial club feel they are making a choice or not? It seems most agree with your position. They are struggling with their homosexuality and are choosing to suppress who they are. They go to great lengths doing the dance. I compare it to a person who becomes a Catholic priest but lacks a true calling to celibacy. Such a person becomes bitter and it shows in their work.

ltndncr59 wrote:

<quoted text>
Let's stay on the question of whether G-d punished homosexuals. And DID you read Ezekiel? In particular, the chapter and verse in which the sins of Sodom are listed quite clearly?

The message in Ezekiel 16 referenced Jerusalem-an Unfaithful Wife. They were being confronted for idolatry, pride, arrogance,selfishness; worshipping false gods which listed Sodom in there as doing the same. Ezekiel was not addressing sexual sins, but Jerusalem's betrayal. It didn't take away from Genesis where clearly sexual sins being commited in S & G contributing to its destruction. In Ezekial 16 Our Lord is angry at Jerusalem
Ezekiel 16
Jerusalem—an Unfaithful Wife
1 Then another message came to me from the Lord: 2 “Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable sins. 3 Give her this message from the Sovereign Lord: You are nothing but a Canaanite! Your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. 4 On the day you were born, no one cared about you. Your umbilical cord was not cut, and you were never washed, rubbed with salt, and wrapped in cloth. 5 No one had the slightest interest in you; no one pitied you or cared for you. On the day you were born, you were unwanted, dumped in a field and left to die.
15 “But you thought your fame and beauty were your own. So you gave yourself as a prostitute to every man who came along. Your beauty was theirs for the asking. 16 You used the lovely things I gave you to make shrines for idols, where you played the prostitute. Unbelievable! How could such a thing ever happen? 17 You took the very jewels and gold and silver ornaments I had given you and made statues of men and worshiped them. This is adultery against me! 18 You used the beautifully embroidered clothes I gave you to dress your idols. Then you used my special oil and my incense to worship them. 19 Imagine it! You set before them as a sacrifice the choice flour, olive oil, and honey I had given you, says the Sovereign Lord.
20 “Then you took your sons and daughters—the children you had borne to me—and sacrificed them to your gods. Was your prostitution not enough? 21 Must you also slaughter my children by sacrificing them to idols? 22 In all your years of adultery and detestable sin, you have not once remembered the days long ago when you lay naked in a field, kicking about in your own blood.
Judgment on Jerusalem’s Prostitution
35 “Therefore, you prostitute, listen to this message from the Lord! 36 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because you have poured out your lust and exposed yourself in prostitution to all your lovers, and because you have worshiped detestable idols, and because you have slaughtered your children as sacrifices to your gods, 37 this is what I am going to do. I will gather together all your allies—the lovers with whom you have sinned, both those you loved and those you hated—and I will strip you naked in front of them so they can stare at you.
46 “Your older sister was Samaria, who lived with her daughters in the north. Your younger sister was Sodom, who lived with her daughters in the south. 47 But you have not merely sinned as they did. You quickly surpassed them in corruption. 48 As surely as I live, says the Sovereign Lord, Sodom and her daughters were never as wicked as you and your daughters. 49 Sodom’s sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door. 50 She was proud and committed detestable sins, so I wiped her out, as you have seen.[c]
51 “Even Samaria did not commit half your sins. You have done far more detestable things than your sisters ever did. They seem righteous compared to you. 52 Shame on you! Your sins are so terrible that you make your sisters seem righteous, even virtuous.

ltndncr59 wrote:

<quoted text>
You failed to answer my question. Where in the bible does G-d punish homosexuals? It's a pretty easy question, or at least it should be, for someone who professes such a profound biblical knowledge. Let me ask again, in case the question missed it's mark:
Where in the Bible does G-d punish homosexuals?

I do think we are in agreement. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed first for their idolatry and betrayal to God. The sexual sins were a product of their idolatry and lawlessness; and holds true today. Sexual sins are rampant in our generation because we have forgotten God. But the message about sexual sins is explanatory in Romans 1:18-32. It is ingenuious when people say, Jesus never said it. When He did thru the disciples and reaffirms this by His own wrods.
John 17:6-8 (New Living Translation) Jesus praying to God about the disciples:
6 “I have revealed you to the ones you gave me from this world. They were always yours. You gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything I have is a gift from you, 8 for I have passed on to them the message you gave me. They accepted it and know that I came from you, and they believe you sent me.
John 17:13-26 (New Living Translation)
13 “Now I am coming to you. I told them many things while I was with them in this world so they would be filled with my joy. 14 I have given them your word. And the world hates them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 15 I’m not asking you to take them out of the world, but to keep them safe from the evil one. 16 They do not belong to this world any more than I do. 17 Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth. 18 Just as you sent me into the world, I am sending them into the world. 19 And I give myself as a holy sacrifice for them so they can be made holy by your truth.

Yawn... enough bible babble for tonight. I need some sleep.

Isabella wrote:

<quoted text>cut for brevity

"46 “Your older sister was Samaria, who lived with her daughters in the north. Your younger sister was Sodom, who lived with her daughters in the south. 47 But you have not merely sinned as they did. You quickly surpassed them in corruption. 48 As surely as I live, says the Sovereign Lord, Sodom and her daughters were never as wicked as you and your daughters. 49 Sodom’s sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door. 50 She was proud and committed detestable sins, so I wiped her out, as you have seen.[c]"
And there is it is: "Pride, gluttony and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door." See homosexuality mentioned there?
The inhabitants of Sodom were also guilty of idol worship and abominable sacrifices. They were cruel to outsiders. Certainly there were homosexuals among them; there are and have been homosexuals in every single society and culture since the dawn of Man. But homosexuality was NOT the reason that Sodom and G'morrah were destroyed.

ltndncr59 wrote:

<quoted text>
"46 “Your older sister was Samaria, who lived with her daughters in the north. Your younger sister was Sodom, who lived with her daughters in the south. 47 But you have not merely sinned as they did. You quickly surpassed them in corruption. 48 As surely as I live, says the Sovereign Lord, Sodom and her daughters were never as wicked as you and your daughters. 49 Sodom’s sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door. 50 She was proud and committed detestable sins, so I wiped her out, as you have seen.[c]"
And there is it is: "Pride, gluttony and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door." See homosexuality mentioned there?
The inhabitants of Sodom were also guilty of idol worship and abominable sacrifices. They were cruel to outsiders. Certainly there were homosexuals among them; there are and have been homosexuals in every single society and culture since the dawn of Man. But homosexuality was NOT the reason that Sodom and G'morrah were destroyed.

You're wasting energy with Isabella. Do you think she can understand the complexities of the bible when she actually believes that "twenty years ago there were only two sexually transmitted diseases." LMAO