Church hosts fair trade boutique

A beautiful expression of what Jesus was all about. See you there!

Uh huh. Is it my imagination, or is this Church wildly blurring the line between commercial enterprise and religious activity? First that suspiciously secular looking coffeehouse, and now this.

Don't be fooled. Fair trade does not mean not-for-profit. Both this Trade As One company and this Church are in this for the money.

Enjoy your shopping, however.

One more thing about Fair Trade. Retailers in this country are always anxious to tell you how much people in producing countries are getting for their products and how much better they're paid than in other models.

If you want a cheap jolly, ask your local Fair Trade retailer what their markup is on these products when they sell them to you, and watch them squirm around and evade the question :)

Yeah, these guys take every short-cut there is, including violating all the planning ordinances and whizzing on the neighborhood. What would Jesus do?

Henry wrote:

Uh huh. Is it my imagination, or is this Church wildly blurring the line between commercial enterprise and religious activity? First that suspiciously secular looking coffeehouse, and now this.
Don't be fooled. Fair trade does not mean not-for-profit. Both this Trade As One company and this Church are in this for the money.
Enjoy your shopping, however.

Let's see now, what would Jesus buy?

Enough of these frauds under the guise of Christianity. Why isn't the city going after them, or at least the IRS? Go get'em, we need the property and sales tax money they are profiting on, under non-profit status no less.

Henry wrote:

Uh huh. Is it my imagination, or is this Church wildly blurring the line between commercial enterprise and religious activity? First that suspiciously secular looking coffeehouse, and now this.

I've been wondering about this also. The last time I was at the Abbey, the guy sitting next to me was looking at pornography on his laptop. That would be creepy enough if it wasn't in a church. I haven't been back. I can have that experience at Pergs.

Right on Time wrote:

A beautiful expression of what Jesus was all about. See you there!

Did Jesus use paper or plastic?

Hi Henry and Tina and Church Cash Cow!

Henry and Church Cash Cow:

Every single thing The Abbey does is compliant with the city of Santa Cruz and going through all the necessary permits etc. So there is nothing fishy whatsoever going on. If you have serious questions, please talk to The Abbey or contact the city as your speculations here aren't accurate.

Tina: The Abbey is a public space not a church worship service for only church goers and because it is a public space people from Santa Cruz who go in it may go on web sites the church itself would not endorse. I have been in The Abbey many, many times and have never seen someone doing what you described. So if that happens, it is not what most people do as they don't in most public coffee spaces.

The Abbey is for people of Santa Cruz to have a space to hang out, use the internet, students to study, enjoy the art and music played there.

For Henry and Tina wrote:

Hi Henry and Tina and Church Cash Cow!
Henry and Church Cash Cow:
Every single thing The Abbey does is compliant with the city of Santa Cruz and going through all the necessary permits etc. So there is nothing fishy whatsoever going on. If you have serious questions, please talk to The Abbey or contact the city as your speculations here aren't accurate.
Tina: The Abbey is a public space not a church worship service for only church goers and because it is a public space people from Santa Cruz who go in it may go on web sites the church itself would not endorse. I have been in The Abbey many, many times and have never seen someone doing what you described. So if that happens, it is not what most people do as they don't in most public coffee spaces.
The Abbey is for people of Santa Cruz to have a space to hang out, use the internet, students to study, enjoy the art and music played there.

Unless they have a business license, a health inspection quarterly, paying sales taxes, and paying county property taxes, they are not in compliance.

I love the Trade as One concept! Keep up the good work Nathan.

For Henry and Tina wrote:

Hi Henry and Tina and Church Cash Cow!
Henry and Church Cash Cow:
Every single thing The Abbey does is compliant with the city of Santa Cruz and going through all the necessary permits etc. So there is nothing fishy whatsoever going on. If you have serious questions, please talk to The Abbey or contact the city as your speculations here aren't accurate.
Tina: The Abbey is a public space not a church worship service for only church goers and because it is a public space people from Santa Cruz who go in it may go on web sites the church itself would not endorse. I have been in The Abbey many, many times and have never seen someone doing what you described. So if that happens, it is not what most people do as they don't in most public coffee spaces.
The Abbey is for people of Santa Cruz to have a space to hang out, use the internet, students to study, enjoy the art and music played there.

I didn't suggest that what you're doing at the coffeeshop is illegal. I said you're blurring the lines between commercial enterprise and religious activity. It brings up questions of ethics. Maybe I'm just old, but it creates cognitive dissonance when I see people pull up to a house of worship in BMWs to buy $4 lattes. A soup kitchen I'd understand. That's all.

Last time i heard, the church itself wasnt very profitable, and neither was the abbey (if at all)...so i dont think anyone has to worry about this church abusing its non-profit status.

The truth is, there are people out there who are trying to make a difference just like Jesus did. This Trade as One organization is one of many, either at vintage faith, or elsewhere.

Alan wrote:

<quoted text>
Unless they have a business license, a health inspection quarterly, paying sales taxes, and paying county property taxes, they are not in compliance.

I personally know that the Abbey does pay sales tax, property taxes, business license and have health inspections.

Why is it when churches do good things there is always so much negativitiy?!

Matt wrote:

Last time i heard, the church itself wasnt very profitable, and neither was the abbey (if at all)...so i dont think anyone has to worry about this church abusing its non-profit status.
The truth is, there are people out there who are trying to make a difference just like Jesus did. This Trade as One organization is one of many, either at vintage faith, or elsewhere.

LOL. Churches aren't supposed to be profitable. That's my point.

Look, I don't care if a private enterprise makes a profit. It's just a bit weird to see a church in particular acting like a hypercompetitve business, with coffeeshops and fair trade "boutiques". And for a Fair Trade company - selling very expensive items by the way - to use this church as a vehicle to make money is also somewhat incongrous. Or is the Fair Trade company a non profit also?

You must see that all this is going to raise some eyebrows, right?

Keep up the good work!! Great idea!! Way to go!!

I'm wary of any religious institution that has a cash register at the front door.

Matt wrote:

Last time i heard, the church itself wasnt very profitable, and neither was the abbey (if at all)...so i dont think anyone has to worry about this church abusing its non-profit status.
The truth is, there are people out there who are trying to make a difference just like Jesus did. This Trade as One organization is one of many, either at vintage faith, or elsewhere.

I'm a big believer in Fair Trade, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal for churches to be profitable. It's great that people at VF are trying to make a difference, but if we're trying to be closer to Jesus, we should remember that He didn't walk around the desert with a cappuccino maker charging people $4 for Americanos and lattes.

Roberta wrote:

<quoted text>
I personally know that the Abbey does pay sales tax, property taxes, business license and have health inspections.
Why is it when churches do good things there is always so much negativitiy?!

Because most of the christian churches nowadays are frauds. They've turned into nothing but wealth building. And you are wrong, about taxes. Churches are tax exempt. They are not even on the tax rolls, so don't lie Ms. Christian!

on the abbey: i spend a lot of time in the abbey and it has a great atmosphere and gives a positive and aesthetically pleasing place for students, professionals and families to come together, study, hangout and enjoy direct trade coffee from the Verve and locally made treats. from what i understand, when they do start making a profit, they are going to give it directly back to different local and international organizations who are affecting positive change in the world.

on the boutique: it seems like a great way to raise awareness about the issues of poverty and slavery while helping people buy responsibly and supporting the people who made the items. on their website, they explain their business practices and are transparent about where they are as a new company. i am personally excited that a this company exists and that a church is addressing our spending habits. i think we can all agree, christian or not, that america consumes far beyond what is necessary and could use a new way to think about spending.

hopeful wrote:

on the abbey: i spend a lot of time in the abbey and it has a great atmosphere and gives a positive and aesthetically pleasing place for students, professionals and families to come together, study, hangout and enjoy direct trade coffee from the Verve and locally made treats. from what i understand, when they do start making a profit, they are going to give it directly back to different local and international organizations who are affecting positive change in the world.
on the boutique: it seems like a great way to raise awareness about the issues of poverty and slavery while helping people buy responsibly and supporting the people who made the items. on their website, they explain their business practices and are transparent about where they are as a new company. i am personally excited that a this company exists and that a church is addressing our spending habits. i think we can all agree, christian or not, that america consumes far beyond what is necessary and could use a new way to think about spending.

Awesome. It's great that the staff at VF is so active on this forum. Going back to my original question, what is the markup on the fair trade items (coffee is over $15 a pound -more than I pay for fair trade coffee at Peets or Lulu's or SCRC) that are featured here? Is this a for-profit business? Does VF get a cut? How much?

I love all the feel-good platitudes also, but I'd prefer some hard answers. You're asking for my money, after all.