Alcoholics Anonymous..does it work?

wichitarick wrote:

Hi not high
Rather than try to spread all the bad parts of a.a. why can't you folks just take the obvious steps that DO WORK & help tell people about them ?

What steps are those?

Headhunter 300M wrote:

<quoted text>
What steps are those?

Exactly. Alot of folks attend AA for social reasons. Over half of AA meeting attenders are a bunch of preachers and full of grandiosity not to mention shyt!

I'm sorry, but I will NEVER believe that Alcoholism is a "disease". It IS a choice you make. It is an ADDICTION. just like smoking ciggys. I'm addicted to smoking them. May it be the Tar, the nicotine...whatever. maybe it's the hand to mouth motion. I'm not sure. But it's all my CHOICE to light one up every time I do. I stopped smoking for 8 years. I CHOSE to stop. When I was ready to. Then I chose to start back up again. And IF I want to stop again, I will. the difference here is...being DRUNK, can kill someone. INSTANTLY. Right before your eyes. Being DRUNK, can make people turn into monsters, with no remorse, feelings, logical thought, lack of common sense, nothing! I don't turn into a mean bitch when I light a ciggy. I don't suddenly decide I'm going to spew insults at the ones I love and not give a shit. Or just pass out and burn the house down maybe. no. I just smoke a ciggy. Is being addicted to ciggys a disease too? Boo hoo, feel sorry for me too please? NO! it's a choice for you to come home from work, and DECIDE to pick up that bottle and BECOME that way! Your choice! Not all serial killers had bad childhoods! And not all children with bad childhoods become serial killers, do they? NO! because we all have choices! Don't we. You don't have a disease. Be men! Be women! Stand up and make a choice! I've been through hell and back...don't see me crying in alcohol...buck up!

Putalen wrote:

I'm sorry, but I will NEVER believe that Alcoholism is a "disease". It IS a choice you make. It is an ADDICTION. just like smoking ciggys. I'm addicted to smoking them. May it be the Tar, the nicotine...whatever. maybe it's the hand to mouth motion. I'm not sure. But it's all my CHOICE to light one up every time I do. I stopped smoking for 8 years. I CHOSE to stop. When I was ready to. Then I chose to start back up again. And IF I want to stop again, I will. the difference here is...being DRUNK, can kill someone. INSTANTLY. Right before your eyes. Being DRUNK, can make people turn into monsters, with no remorse, feelings, logical thought, lack of common sense, nothing! I don't turn into a mean bitch when I light a ciggy. I don't suddenly decide I'm going to spew insults at the ones I love and not give a shit. Or just pass out and burn the house down maybe. no. I just smoke a ciggy. Is being addicted to ciggys a disease too? Boo hoo, feel sorry for me too please? NO! it's a choice for you to come home from work, and DECIDE to pick up that bottle and BECOME that way! Your choice! Not all serial killers had bad childhoods! And not all children with bad childhoods become serial killers, do they? NO! because we all have choices! Don't we. You don't have a disease. Be men! Be women! Stand up and make a choice! I've been through hell and back...don't see me crying in alcohol...buck up!

Great post and absolutely true. AA prophet Bill Wilson killed himself with cigarettes, and justified that addiction with it not being as serious as alcohol and told his wife that quitting would be a risk to his sobriety.
There is no "disease" in personal choices. Yes, addiction is tough, but no one is "powerless" to not put alcohol in their mouth and swallow it.

Thank you Headhunter! I also don't believe in this AA crap. Does EVERYthing have to revolve around God? I was dating a guy...fantastic man! We had a ton of sh*t in common. Things were going great. All of a sudden, this "recovering alcoholic", suffering horribly from his "disease"...must have missed one of his meds one day, calls me up and tells me his "Higher Power" spoke to him and told him that I was not the one. We needed to stop seeing each other. Are effing kidding me? He believed soooo steadfastly in this garbage...that he had to dump me! His "HP" SPOKE to him!!???
Wow...can you say WACO, TX???

pass the koolaid!

Putalen wrote:

Thank you Headhunter! I also don't believe in this AA crap. Does EVERYthing have to revolve around God? I was dating a guy...fantastic man! We had a ton of sh*t in common. Things were going great. All of a sudden, this "recovering alcoholic", suffering horribly from his "disease"...must have missed one of his meds one day, calls me up and tells me his "Higher Power" spoke to him and told him that I was not the one. We needed to stop seeing each other. Are effing kidding me? He believed soooo steadfastly in this garbage...that he had to dump me! His "HP" SPOKE to him!!???
Wow...can you say WACO, TX???

Step 11: Listen to the voices in your head and do what they tell you to do. You're probably better off, once a certain level of indoctrination is reached, they're off their rocker.

Putalen wrote:

I'm sorry, but I will NEVER believe that Alcoholism is a "disease". It IS a choice you make.

Putalen, no truer words have been spoken; and yours say it all. Drinking and driving kill’s people, not alcohol. If you drink and drive you make the choice not the alcohol. BTW this applies to all the other lame excuses and fallacies that come from 12 stepping disease model hawkers that can’t own up to the truth about their bad behaviour.
Only a complete idiot or a mentally deranged individual would continuously return to doing the same stupid acts if they admitted they were to blame for doing them.
Isn’t Empowerment grand?
Alcoholism as a character flaw
While the disease model is prevalent, there is another viewpoint that stresses alcoholism as a disease of the will. The argument revolves around choice and whether addiction amounts to a loss of control or is the result of a lack of self control 3.
Alcoholics Anonymous mentions alcoholism as “a disease of the spirit” and looks to reliance on a higher power as one of their 12 steps.
3 History and science have shown us that the existence of the disease of alcoholism is pure speculation. Just saying alcoholism is a disease, doesn't make it true. Nevertheless, medical professionals and American culture enthusiastically embraced the disease concept and quickly applied it to every possible behavior from alcohol abuse to compulsive lecturing and nail biting. The disease concept was a panacea for many failing medical institutions and pharmaceutical companies, adding billions of dollars to the industry and leading to a prompt evolution of pop-psychology. Research has shown that alcoholism is a choice, not a disease, and stripping alcohol abusers of their choice, by applying the disease concept, is a threat to the health of the individual.
http://www.baldwinresearch.com/alcoholism.cfm

Sad, Sad, Sad..is all I have to say. I have a disease. It's called Epilepsy. I don't CHOOSE to have seizures. They just happen, due to a short in my brain. Mis-firing. Believe me...if I had a CHOICE? I would definitely choose NOT to ever have one again. I would not choose to take medication the rest of my life, that mess with my body all the time. I don't like having to rely on pills. Or being judged by my guy, whenever I fill my pill box every week. judged by the same wonderful man who CHOOSES to pick up a bottle every night he comes home from work in an awesome mood, but needs to just let his "horrible" life melt away in alcohol. he does NOT have a horrible life. at ALL. But because AA or other support groups are all based on this BS 12 step program, I have no where to turn. He has no where to go. He is an amazing man. He can go for days without drinking, so it really doesn't make him an alcoholic, or he would have the shakes, withdrawal symptoms? I agree, it IS threatening their health, by labeling it a disease. If it were a disease, then explain it. What is it affecting? What part of the body? Where's the medication to improve it? Or maybe surgery? Or let me guess...there just is no cure, right? oy....The world is such an ignorant place sometimes. I'm so glad there are people out there that agree with me. Why can't more people just speak up and not just be brainwashed?

AA does not work. Of the 5% of AA members who do quit it is just that, THEY quit. How come AA takes credit for the 5% who do quit but not the 95% who don't? Oh that's right, they didn't fully follow our path. It's ridiculous. And to say it isn't religious is like saying the pope isn't religious. The 12 steps all talk about God and the entire program is based on GOD taking away your desire to drink.

I made the mistake of attending AA at several different locations in Atlanta, and had dirty old men hitting on me constantly, high school dropouts giving me medical advice like don't take my anxiety medicine, and a moronic sponser who told me that bc I took a SIP of my friends margarita that I may as well get wasted . Which I did. I was made to feel like a worthless, powerless loser. I am so glad someone (not a brainwashed AA member) but a doctor steer me to rational recovery. That combined with therapy has helped me stay sober but I give credit to myself not some cult or an imaginary dude in the clouds. Comments I will get fromAA supporters "not all meetings/members are like the ones I attended " "god doesn't refer to the Christian god, but could be your favorite pair of shoes or a door knob'"(do you know how insane that sounds not to mention no one prays to a door knob) "if you were able to quit drinking without AA you were never an alcoholic" (yes I was).

sara wrote:

I made the mistake of attending AA at several different locations in Atlanta, and had dirty old men hitting on me constantly, high school dropouts giving me medical advice like don't take my anxiety medicine, and a moronic sponser who told me that bc I took a SIP of my friends margarita that I may as well get wasted . Which I did. I was made to feel like a worthless, powerless loser. I am so glad someone (not a brainwashed AA member) but a doctor steer me to rational recovery. That combined with therapy has helped me stay sober but I give credit to myself not some cult or an imaginary dude in the clouds. Comments I will get fromAA supporters "not all meetings/members are like the ones I attended " "god doesn't refer to the Christian god, but could be your favorite pair of shoes or a door knob'"(do you know how insane that sounds not to mention no one prays to a door knob) "if you were able to quit drinking without AA you were never an alcoholic" (yes I was).

good for you Sara. I agree. Listening to AA members makes me want to drink. They are always trying to one up each other, either their bottoms were lower or they brag about their new life they owe to AA????no God helped them get that new life so thank him and don't boast. Thanks

sara wrote:

I made the mistake of attending AA at several different locations in Atlanta, and had dirty old men hitting on me constantly, high school dropouts giving me medical advice like don't take my anxiety medicine, and a moronic sponser who told me that bc I took a SIP of my friends margarita that I may as well get wasted . Which I did. I was made to feel like a worthless, powerless loser. I am so glad someone (not a brainwashed AA member) but a doctor steer me to rational recovery. That combined with therapy has helped me stay sober but I give credit to myself not some cult or an imaginary dude in the clouds. Comments I will get fromAA supporters "not all meetings/members are like the ones I attended " "god doesn't refer to the Christian god, but could be your favorite pair of shoes or a door knob'"(do you know how insane that sounds not to mention no one prays to a door knob) "if you were able to quit drinking without AA you were never an alcoholic" (yes I was).

Glad you're away from the madness. You really touched on the worst elements of AA. Any stepper that would discount your observations would clearly be in denial. 13th stepping is a big problem, as is dogmatic sponsors telling people to stop taking medications. That is practicing medicine without a license and should be reported. The lunatics are running the asylum.
The whole door knob gimmick is just one of the many bait-and-switch techniques. Reading Chapter 4 of the Big Book as well as numerous other writings of the narcassist cult leader Bill Wilson makes that quite clear.

Headhunter 300M wrote:

<quoted text>
Glad you're away from the madness. You really touched on the worst elements of AA. Any stepper that would discount your observations would clearly be in denial. 13th stepping is a big problem, as is dogmatic sponsors telling people to stop taking medications. That is practicing medicine without a license and should be reported. The lunatics are running the asylum.
The whole door knob gimmick is just one of the many bait-and-switch techniques. Reading Chapter 4 of the Big Book as well as numerous other writings of the narcassist cult leader Bill Wilson makes that quite clear.

Bill Wilson is a self rightous womanizing holiet than though sob.

I meant holiest

I mean AA was founded what 60+ years ago? And no AA members question that it may be outdated at best. I bet these people don't go to the doctor and say "please when treating my condition I prefer that you use the same method used in the 1950's".

As far as the whole "god" thing , I can't imagine believing that your God would ignore the cries and prayers of holocaust victims, starving and abused children, and all the wars, poverty, and disease that plague the world.....yet take time to "relieve you of your obsession with alcohol"

I agree Sara...this is 2012 and surely we can do better than "It's hopeless, you're a powerless, insane disgusting sinner who thinks he is God, so surrender yourself completely to our cult religion or you will face jails, institutions and death". That is not an exaggeration, that is the core of the AA message. Funny how none of the steps say anything like "stop putting alcohol in your mouth and swallowing it". Bill Wilson even wrote that the real goal was "acquire faith" and be of maximum service to God".
This has nothing to do with not drinking and everything to do with growing a cult religion. Bill copied the 12 steps directly from the "principles" of Frank Buchman's Oxford Group cult. Buchman praised Adolph Hitler and Henriech Himmler, even attended Nazi rallies in Germany. Bill Wilson was a narcassist, philandering, theiving dirtbag.
Amazing that 70 years later this is still the dominant model for addicition treatment and courts sentence people to it daily, and insurance companies are bilked for millions. We need more people like you stating what it really is.
I also find it ironic that the program promises "serenity and gratitude" and Bill Wilson even claimed alcoholics should disconnect feelings of anger, but read through these threads right here on the topix alcoholism forums to see how non-linear 12-step believers go when the truths of their cult are exposed. Always the same pre-programmed arguments too...I even set up a thread just for their stock arguments as it gets tiring having the same argument over and over and easier to direct them there.
Oh well.

I think people get addicted to the drama in AA and go to meetings just so they can find someone worse off than them so they can feel better and sometimes they are just looking for a majic wand or a helping hand. They should always keep tp near by because they are always on the pity pot.

jdmdusa wrote:

I think people get addicted to the drama in AA and go to meetings just so they can find someone worse off than them so they can feel better and sometimes they are just looking for a majic wand or a helping hand. They should always keep tp near by because they are always on the pity pot.

Drunks are all about drama; just read Bill Wilson's chapter to the wives and you will soon see that Bill W. was the poster boy they used to coin the phrase "Drama Queen" from. BTW, that chapter has to be the most vile piece of garbage I have ever read.