If Health Law Is Overturned, What Will Liberals Do?

Anonymous of Indy wrote:

<quoted text>buy your own, you dont have to be a FDR Socialist worker and have your Capitalist employer provide it for you.

Should I give up my paid holidays, vacation, unemployment insurance, pay for all my Medicare and SS contributions instead of my employer matching them, give up my IRA?

These are called benefits Indy. My benefits are compensation for cash my employer does not pay me. In other words, I indirectly pay for all my benefits myself just like any other worker.

Churmudgeon wrote:

I cant believe people actually think one party is better than the other. If you a socialist parasite depending on the goverment to provide for you then Obamas your guy. If your not your just out of luck .The middle class producers dont really have anyone in there corner. The only choice the productive have is picking the lesser evil who is Romney. Both partys have contributed there is plenty of blame in both partys.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Albert Einstein, 1942

“The irony is that even though our financial crisis was caused by too much borrowing and spending, it can be solved only by more borrowing and spending.”
Richard Stengel, 8 Aug 2011

“We have a debt crisis coming and we can’t keep spending money we don’t have. The government is borrowing forty cents of every dollar it spends…”
Paul Ryan, 23 Apr 2012

Everybody except for the leftwing nutjobs and the Obamabots knows there is massive government waste to cut. Even Obama secretly admits that, when he isn't in "campaign mode." The U.S. ranks 68th out of 139 countries in the wastefulness of government spending according to the 2010-11 World Economic Forum.

Why not simply cut all massively wasteful government spending 5% across the board?

Pamela wrote:

<quoted text>Reagan cut taxes when taxes on the rich were about 70 percent. There was almost no debt back in those days, there was no shortage of oil, no high priced oil like today. If taxes are 70 percent and you cut them down to 40 percent, yes you free up money to invest in new businesses. But, today the top tax rate is only about 35 percent, so lowerig it to 25 percent is not going to make a big difference, and, today they take the jobs to China, it's a global workforce. And, today we spend $400 billion per year on interest on this big debt Bush and Obama ran up, whereas in Reagan's day, there was no big $16 trillion of debt.
Bush was horrible. He is the one who let the jobs go to China. They all went to China between 2000-2008, he had two unfunded wars and lowered taxes so he had to borrow $5 trillion of debt to pay for the wars and the low tax rates. He created less jobs in 8 years than Obama did in 2 years. Clinton created 22 million jobs, he balanced the budget and was not borrowing money. That is what he handed over to Bush. Bush let the jobs go to China, he let the Federal Reserve run the economy and this is how we got the real estate boom and then bust, and that is half of why 8 million people lost their jobs when the real estate market crashed. Also, the financial sector completely collapsed like nothing ever seen before in the U.S. except during the Great Depression. So if you like what Bush did, you liked the entire U.S. collapsing, and when everyone finally saw it all go under - the financial sector, the real estate sector, the jobs to China, 8 million jobs lost here from the banks and the real estate market crashing, huge deficits,$5 trillion of run up debt, unpaid for wars, an oil war, if you like that, then you must want the U.S. to end.

The United States Federal Government is not in charge of bringing jobs to the US or shipping jobs overseas. That's the role of the private market. If government ever becomes an entity to do as you describe, then we will be living under a dictatorship.

The housing bubble (and burst) was the act of government running the private market. It was Clinton who put Andrew Cuomo in charge of HUD. He instituted 0% down payment for homes. That inspired every poor person with not a dime in their name to purchase homes they could not afford.

Pamela wrote:

As far as people being on food stamps, that has to do with the fact that our manufacturing jobs went to China because rich white guys found out China would let them manufacture and not pay to clean up their air and water, so they went and they destroyed the environment and they speed up global warming all to make a fast buck. And they went and took the U.S. down by having people in China work for almost nothing. So some rich guys got very rich by destroying the earth and by selling Americans cheap stuff made by slaves in Chinese factories. yahoo. We really did some big thing. Our economy is buying crap, and if you don't make anything, you have a huge trade deficit, so you borrow money to keep buying stuff from China and eventually you go under from the debt, and, if your economy is buying crap you don't need, your jobs will all be low paying service sector jobs. So now we have low paying service jobs, so yes, people qualify for food stamps.
When Bush left office, the U.S. had totally collapsed and it is not ever coming back. The rich extracted the wealth out of the country and saw their incomes increase by 450 percent. Recently, same rich people moved $27 trillion out of the U.S. because they know the dollar is going to collapse next year since we have a lot of debt and have no good paying jobs and a nation of uneducated and underemployed people. So they took the rest of their money out of the country. So the idea that Obama did any of this is nuts. What Obama did is he is a big spending far left liberal who spend even more than Bush. Bush tanked the U.S. and Obama finished it off. Obama put the icing on the cake. The ONLY shot this country has to come back is a trade war with China, or since cheap oil is ending, the end of globalization would bring jobs back here. And, if we would start to go solar and wind and get off of oil now, we could create tons of jobs and deal with pollution and with global warming.

Yes we would. And we would also be paying three times as much for energy than we do now, and that alone would bankrupt the country.

frontporchreactionary wrote:

@xxxrayted, "Money doesn't materialize from thin air. Who is going to pay for preexisting condition patients?" Are you deaf or just too obtuse or ignorant to read what other people post? I told you that the individual mandate pays for keeping people with pre-existing conditions on insurer plans. The individual mandate is the modest payment that people who can afford healthcare insurance ,but fore-go buying it will have to give to help support the healthcare system that someday they will need too.

Who is going to pay for preexisting condition patients? The individual or employer, that's who. I've been an insulin diabetic for over 25 years, and I've never been without healthcare coverage. I also have high blood pressure too.

Let me give you some facts about health insurance:

The average profit of health insurance companies is between 2% and 7%. Health insurance takes your premium (or your employers premium he pays on your behalf) and invests it. The returns on those investments help offset claim costs.

This is why government is a total failure when it comes to healthcare. If they don't steal the money from these programs, they let it sit under a mattress until it is needed. When they can't pay these medical bills in full, they pay less, and less, and less to the provider. This is why many doctors and hospitals are refusing new government patients.

So DumBama comes along and creates this idiotic rule that private insurance must spend 80% of their collected premiums directly on health costs. In other words, follow the same failed government plans that are bankrupting the country or are scheduled to be out of money in the very near future.

Okay, so how are insurance companies going to survive by paying this 80% directly to medical bills? They can't. That's the point. Commie Care was designed to eventually wipe out private insurance leaving us all dependents of government.

This remaining 20% can't be used for investments, administration, talented and qualified CEO's, or fraud detection. In other words, they can't exist when Communists like Obama tell them how to run their business.

It's not the job of the federal government to take over businesses like insurance companies, banks, credit card institutions or auto dealerships and manufactures. This is the closest we've ever been to fascism or Communism we've ever been in this country. DumBama wants to run everything.

xxxrayted wrote:

<quoted text>
Should I give up my paid holidays, vacation, unemployment insurance, pay for all my Medicare and SS contributions instead of my employer matching them, give up my IRA?
These are called benefits Indy. My benefits are compensation for cash my employer does not pay me. In other words, I indirectly pay for all my benefits myself just like any other worker.

I believe everybody should pay for their own Medicare & Social Security just like the self employed which unemployment insurance is part of instead of the employers(Capitalist)contribut ing and should be exempt in matching them. they are doing enough for providing the workers(Socialist) with jobs and if they want to provide holdiay & vacation pay or anythings else that is their business.

Pamela wrote:

<quoted text>Yeah, Romney is supposed to be the solution to what Bush did. It's like both parties have nothing left to offer. That's why they are tied in the polls all the time. Bush destroyed the U.S., Obama ran up a bunch more debt, we can't pay it back, Romney will go and have a war with Iran, stay on ending oil and have a war for more oil, same as Bush did, same old stuff.
Yes, I'm a long time Republican. I'm a moderate, fiscally conservative and socially liberal. This tea party that has attached itself to the Republican party is people who were Democrats who got mad when Obama took money out of Medicare. People go insane if you touch social security or Medicare, it is the third rail of politics in the U.S. So that made the older folks go nuts and they started the tea party and they go ONLY by what Fox says, so they are voting Republican now and they have never seen a long time Republican, moderate ones. All they know is the charged up hate stuff from Sean Hannity and Limbaugh, the super far right nut case types. So those nuts call me a Dem. It's super spun stuff. Most of it comes from Americans IQs have gone down so much, it's a mess. Their low intelligence is their undoing.

Right now, the US borrows 40 cents for every dollar it spends. That means in order to balance the budget, we would have to cut 40% of our spending. 40% is pretty near the figure we spend on Medicare and Social Security alone.

That being said, I would like to use the words of my favorite economist-Walter E Williams.

He said "Suppose I were to run for Congress or Senate, and my platform would be if you are to elect me, I would bring no money to this state from Washington because it doesn't fall in line with our Constitution or the intent of our founders. Who would elect me? Not many of course. "

Professor Williams is absolutely correct. Don't blame our politicians--blame our voters. We have become a country of leaches. Give us something for free, or we will elect somebody who does.

I am fortunate to live in a state that has Governor who doesn't give a crap about reelection. He cares about straightening out our state, and that would be Governor Kasich of Ohio.

The good governor has lowered our unemployment below the national average. He took an 8 billion dollar debt and eliminated it in the coming years. He has balanced the budget. He has brought jobs to our state. And you know what? People here hate him. Why? Because he made drastic cuts to our cities, towns and counties. Tough love.

His poll numbers are slowly rising, but I only tell this story to prove that if a politician does whatever it takes to straighten out a problem, it comes at the expense of his or her constituents. And career politicians (which are most of them) just won't do that.

xxxrayted wrote:

<quoted text>
The United States Federal Government is not in charge of bringing jobs to the US or shipping jobs overseas. That's the role of the private market. If government ever becomes an entity to do as you describe, then we will be living under a dictatorship.
The housing bubble (and burst) was the act of government running the private market. It was Clinton who put Andrew Cuomo in charge of HUD. He instituted 0% down payment for homes. That inspired every poor person with not a dime in their name to purchase homes they could not afford.

look up OPIC, Employment act of 1946 & Humphrey–Hawkins Full Employment Act, Social Secuirty act of 1935, Sherman Anti Trust Act & look up the Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) which is To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes.

Obama stated he wants to bankrupt The coal industry. There isnt enough alternative generating to provide the needed electricity without coal fired plants. Just one more reason to not reelect him.

It still comes down to one thing the tea party right grab onto issues that totally ignore the big picture stuff in the election. So every argument is about handouts, constitution and being taxed too much.

When the real issues to turn an economy around belong with Foriegn policy, Globalisation & Environment. For whatever reason the Republican's these days just can't seem to get a handle on how important foriegn policy is. Because in a time of crisis its better to have more friends than enemies. Obama has made huge gains in foriegn policy. You need someone who can talk the talk and walk the walk. Romney can just walk, for the art of diplomacy he would just be a Bush clone living off the advice of his war hawks.
Secondly its the same with the Business sector having too much influence in policy where ideology gets in the way of what is the country's best interest. It should never be about what is good for Apple or Exxon it should also benefit the country they are based in. Finally the Environment, this could be the next cash cow but it is also totally ignored by the Republicans.

So ranting on about food stamps is never going to kick start an economy. If you do elect the current republican canidate all the US will do is turn into another Russia. Allowing limited opportunity to the country's wealth to an elite few. We all know what happens from the history books when a country gets to that position.

I haven't heard one speech about how someone's biggest aspiration was to collect food stamps because the whole point of living in a free country is about the opportunity to succeed. This is the same in every western democracy. Yet that is all the tea party Republicans can talk about, or how high taxes are strangling business or how some social safety net is against the constitution its all painted with the same brush. so whats wrong with this picture.

September 7, 2012 – SWEDEN – As a pharmaceutical salesman in Greece for 17 years, Tilemachos Karachalios wore a suit, drove a company car and had an expense account. He now mops schools in Sweden, forced from his home by Greece’s economic crisis.“It was a very good job,” said Karachalios, 40, of his former life.“Now I clean Swedish s—.” Karachalios, who left behind his six-year-old daughter to be raised by his parents, is one of thousands fleeing Greece’s record 24 percent unemployment and austerity measures that threaten to undermine growth. The number of Greeks seeking permission to settle in Sweden, where there are more jobs and a stable economy, almost doubled to 1,093 last year from 2010, and is on pace to increase again this year.“I’m trying to survive,” Karachalios said in an interview in Stockholm.“It’s difficult here, very difficult. I would prefer to stay in Greece. But we don’t have jobs.” Greece is in its fifth year of recession, with the economy expected to contract 6.9 percent this year, the same as in 2011, according to the Athens-based Foundation for Economic and Industrial Research. Since 2008, the number of jobless has more than tripled to a record 1.22 million as of June, out of a total population of 10.8 million.“In Greece, there was no future,” said Ourania Michtopoulou, who moved with her husband to Sweden in 2010 after both lost textile industry jobs in Thessaloniki, where they had a comfortable life with a house and car.“Here, I can hope for something good to happen. Maybe not for me — I’m 48 — but maybe for my children.” Their family now crams into a small apartment, while her husband, Nikos, works for a landscaper and her teenage children struggle with Swedish lessons.“It was not easy for them,” she said.“My daughter said lots of times,‘I hate Sweden — I want to go home.’” Karachalios began his career in pharmaceutical sales after his mandatory military service, working at three different companies in the southern city of Patras. He married a Chinese woman he met at the 2004 Athens Olympics, had a daughter, and divorced.“You can plan, you can organize, you can make plans for 10 years, 20 years, but you don’t know what life brings,” he said. An intense man with flecks of gray in his thinning black hair, Karachalios said he has lost 20 to 30 pounds since moving to Sweden. His hands are stained with grime. Instead of the suits and ties he once wore, he now dresses in jeans and work boots. His suits remain in Greece.–Business Week

xxxrayted wrote:

<quoted text>
The United States Federal Government is not in charge of bringing jobs to the US or shipping jobs overseas. That's the role of the private market. If government ever becomes an entity to do as you describe, then we will be living under a dictatorship.
The housing bubble (and burst) was the act of government running the private market. It was Clinton who put Andrew Cuomo in charge of HUD. He instituted 0% down payment for homes. That inspired every poor person with not a dime in their name to purchase homes they could not afford.

they sign these big trade agreements and send our jobs to other countries. Listen to what Donald Trump has to say about our bad trade agreements. And, if the government is not responsible for creating jobs then everyone needs to stop repeating the Fox crapola about Obama isn't creating enough jobs. People want the government to keep the price of gas low magically while oil is ending, they want the government to create jobs for them, they want the government to keep the price of food super low, they want the government to pay for them to live retired and give them health care for as long as they are retired, they want free rest homes from the government for their parents, they want war after war to protect them, and then this is the same group of people who says they want smaller government and less spending and who claims they want the government out of their lives. They want the government to do everything for them and they do not want to pay for it.

Churmudgeon wrote:

Obama stated he wants to bankrupt The coal industry. There isnt enough alternative generating to provide the needed electricity without coal fired plants. Just one more reason to not reelect him.

James Hanson, the NASA scientist who is the foremost expert in global warming, wrote in his latest book that we have to STOP using coal NOW otherwise the Earth will be too hot for humans to live in in 20 years from now. He also said we HAVE to leave the sand tar and shale oil in the ground otherwise it will be too late in just 20 more years.

frontporchreactionary wrote:

@Pamela, "Obama ran up a bunch more debt, we can't pay it back" Another half-truth that FoxNews tried to pimp to the masses.When will even moderate Republicans have the gumption to call out FoxNews on its lies? Check this out, Pam: Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower ...
Op/Ed | 5/24/2012 @ 6:33PM | 1,607,737 views Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?
www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who... .. That's right--REAGAN and GEORGE W. BUSH presided over the largest growth in the Federal budget. That's even after George W. Bush's stimulus package was reassigned to Obama. Go figure. Are you ready to think that Fox News has been lying to you?

I have attacked Fox 5 million times in Topix boards. All the tea party thinks is I must be a Dem. You cannot get through to them. All they know about is Fox TV told them and if you do not like Fox or you say one thing about the lies Fox tells, they call you a Dem. It is a hopeless case. There is never going to be a real conversation with those people until the U.S. collapses in total. I say pleny about Fox, but it does not even work. They can't hear anything other than what Fox says. It's a bunch of people that are brainwashed. The only thing that breaks brainwashing is when they lose their money or something bad happens to them. That is the only thing that is ever going to get the tea party out of the hands of Fox.

OzRitz wrote:

It still comes down to one thing the tea party right grab onto issues that totally ignore the big picture stuff in the election. So every argument is about handouts, constitution and being taxed too much.
When the real issues to turn an economy around belong with Foriegn policy, Globalisation & Environment. For whatever reason the Republican's these days just can't seem to get a handle on how important foriegn policy is. Because in a time of crisis its better to have more friends than enemies. Obama has made huge gains in foriegn policy. You need someone who can talk the talk and walk the walk. Romney can just walk, for the art of diplomacy he would just be a Bush clone living off the advice of his war hawks.
Secondly its the same with the Business sector having too much influence in policy where ideology gets in the way of what is the country's best interest. It should never be about what is good for Apple or Exxon it should also benefit the country they are based in. Finally the Environment, this could be the next cash cow but it is also totally ignored by the Republicans.
So ranting on about food stamps is never going to kick start an economy. If you do elect the current republican canidate all the US will do is turn into another Russia. Allowing limited opportunity to the country's wealth to an elite few. We all know what happens from the history books when a country gets to that position.
I haven't heard one speech about how someone's biggest aspiration was to collect food stamps because the whole point of living in a free country is about the opportunity to succeed. This is the same in every western democracy. Yet that is all the tea party Republicans can talk about, or how high taxes are strangling business or how some social safety net is against the constitution its all painted with the same brush. so whats wrong with this picture.

A few years before Russia collapsed the rich were taking all the wealth like nothing that had been seen before in Russia. Notice how Bush did the same thing, the rich saw their incomes go up 450 percent, all the wealth ended up in the hands of one percent of the population, he did it with war profits, oil profits, free drugs to seniors and to African countries. All crony capitalism. And they did it with Wall Street, the Fed giving the banks all that money to hand out, no regulation of what those on Wall Street were doing. So that tells us the rich knew the U.S. would collapse, so they did a run on all the wealth of the nation before it collapsed. Did you hear the rich moved $27 trillion of their money out of the U.S. this year? That shows they know the dollar is going to collapse soon.

xxxrayted wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes we would. And we would also be paying three times as much for energy than we do now, and that alone would bankrupt the country.

Nope. People would own the wind mills on their land and own the solar panels on their land, so the big oil and gas companies would not own you, not own OUR oil. Did you know most of the oil left in the U.S. is on government land, meaning we own it and we could drill it up to pay off our debt? Did you know most of the remaining world oil is owned by nations, by the people of countries, it is nationalized? The value of an oil company is how much reserves are out there, if nations own their own oil and those nations don't like us, the oil companies go out of business, which is why Bush invaded Iraq to take that oil for Exxon and BP to control it so they don't go out of business since oil is running out, and that is why they want to invade Iran, to get the nationalized oil in Iran. If you add in the cost of the oil wars, we are paying trillions for for gas than you think we are. the minute China tries to grow again, the price of oil goes right back to $150 a gallon, so get ready for $7 a gallon gas for good.

Churmudgeon wrote:

September 7, 2012 – SWEDEN – As a pharmaceutical salesman in Greece for 17 years, Tilemachos Karachalios wore a suit, drove a company car and had an expense account. He now mops schools in Sweden, forced from his home by Greece’s economic crisis.“It was a very good job,” said Karachalios, 40, of his former life.“Now I clean Swedish s—.” Karachalios, who left behind his six-year-old daughter to be raised by his parents, is one of thousands fleeing Greece’s record 24 percent unemployment and austerity measures that threaten to undermine growth.

But what the Tea Party never looks at is why did Greece go broke? It's the same reason the U.S. is going broke. It's the baby boomer generation retiring, the big state and local government pensions, retiring at 50-55, all those people going onto social security too. This is why Greece went broke. They don't have many children yet the government promised people big pensions and retirement at 52 or so, and so there was no one to pay for it. So the government had been borrowing money to give to the people to get their votes until they could no longer borrow money. This is the same as the U.S. in terms of the government pension promises have $5 trillion in promises that are not paid for, that taxes would have to be raised to come up with the pension monies, and it also has $120 TRILLION in unpaid for promises to the baby boomers in SS and Medicare, so new taxes, big, huge new taxes would need to be created to pay out SS and Medicare.

And, what happened is when they do austerity measures, let's say they cut everyone's state pension in half here, okay, that is half as much money being spent in the stores every month, so the economy contracts. So austerity leads to a shrinking GDP but they have to make the cuts. So they are stuck shrinking and then they have to make more cuts due to less tax revenues coming in.

the tea party never sees anything as it is. They never look beyond one sentence. They see Fox says Greece is going under, that's bad, cut spending. But do they ever look at the fact that the cuts in spending would have to go almost all on the baby boomers government pensions and on SS and Medicare? No. This is how the tea party looks at every issue. They take a one line sound bite and run with it not even understanding one thing about it and it never goes any further than that.

Many people in this country will find that if they did not attend college and also did not send their kids to college, they will be working for minimum wage too, and no longer have high paying jobs either. This is the reality of the West at large. We just lost out on 5 MILLION jobs in computer science and in engineering we were offered because our young people did not study those things in college. Had they done so, it would not have mattered that lower paying manufacturing jobs had gone to China. Bush thought the young people were all going to college and that they would be taking high tech, higher paying jobs. They did not do so, so now we bring in people from foreign countries to fill our jobs cause our people's IQs have gotten very low and they can't step up to the plate and take the jobs they were offered. And, not one person will discuss this. All they say is no one needs to go to college. So you have 3 billion people in China and India sending their kids to school, who have IQs anywhere from 110-150, and they are coming for our good paying jobs, and Americans sit being the fattest folks in the entire world and won't even discuss losing out on 5 million jobs, and they all say they don't need any college. So they are rendering themselves jobless, hopeless, stuck, third world. the people are doing it to themselves.

xxxrayted wrote:

<quoted text>
Right now, the US borrows 40 cents for every dollar it spends. That means in order to balance the budget, we would have to cut 40% of our spending. 40% is pretty near the figure we spend on Medicare and Social Security alone.
That being said, I would like to use the words of my favorite economist-Walter E Williams.
He said "Suppose I were to run for Congress or Senate, and my platform would be if you are to elect me, I would bring no money to this state from Washington because it doesn't fall in line with our Constitution or the intent of our founders. Who would elect me? Not many of course. "
Professor Williams is absolutely correct. Don't blame our politicians--blame our voters. We have become a country of leaches. Give us something for free, or we will elect somebody who does.
I am fortunate to live in a state that has Governor who doesn't give a crap about reelection. He cares about straightening out our state, and that would be Governor Kasich of Ohio.
The good governor has lowered our unemployment below the national average. He took an 8 billion dollar debt and eliminated it in the coming years. He has balanced the budget. He has brought jobs to our state. And you know what? People here hate him. Why? Because he made drastic cuts to our cities, towns and counties. Tough love.
His poll numbers are slowly rising, but I only tell this story to prove that if a politician does whatever it takes to straighten out a problem, it comes at the expense of his or her constituents. And career politicians (which are most of them) just won't do that.

that's true. At last, we agree. Our political system is screwed up in that it began promising people government money in exchange for people's votes. It's the same problem in the European countries. they did this for a long time, so they were borrowing money to do it until they went broke from borrowing money and not being able to pay it back. I agree that the politicians should be governing, admistering the laws, protecting the country, not giving people money in exchange for votes. It's human nature. Look at Greece, Spain, the Scandanavian countries. They were all promised health care, early government pensions, SS, all kinds of things. Well, it all goes along for about one generation's lifetime, maybe 50 years or so, and then it goes under from debt.

You are right that John Kasich did the right thing. I heard him say to Neil Cavuto one time that we need entitlements for the 21st century, not for the second half of the 20th century, meaning, they had promised people big government pensions and early retirements back in the 1950s when folks lived to be 62, and when 80 million baby boomers were all working and paying taxes, they promised everyone SS and Medicare when people died at 62, when very few were on those things. Today it is 2012, today people live to be 80-100, today the baby boomers are leaving the work force and we don't have a big younger generation to carry the burden of paying those pensions and SS and Medicare to the baby boomers. Kasich is a good guy. He tried to put a stop to the huge state pensions. But you are right that everyone gets mad when the politicians are honest with the people and when the politicians don't give people money. The problem is eventually everyone ends up on the government with no one paying for any of it, and then the nation goes broke and everyone ends up having to get off of the government and everyone gets mad, then they get used to it. Before 1929, the Great Depression, there as no welfare, no GA cash, no food stamps, no free health care, no SS, no unemployment insurance,no Medicare. People saved their own money and they only had as many kids as they could afford to support themselves. That's how you get back to having no debt, you put an end to the government dependency programs, and it would also reduce the population overall and it would allow for the strongest to survive.

Pamela wrote:

<quoted text>James Hanson, the NASA scientist who is the foremost expert in global warming, wrote in his latest book that we have to STOP using coal NOW otherwise the Earth will be too hot for humans to live in in 20 years from now. He also said we HAVE to leave the sand tar and shale oil in the ground otherwise it will be too late in just 20 more years.

and Because hansen says so that dont mean its true. And even if it so, We dont have any choice at this time there isnt anything else to replace coal. The coal is safer than nuclear, When a earthquake destroys a coal plant nothing happens. When it strikes a nuclear you have a japan type disaster.

Pamela wrote:

<quoted text>James Hanson, the NASA scientist who is the foremost expert in global warming, wrote in his latest book that we have to STOP using coal NOW otherwise the Earth will be too hot for humans to live in in 20 years from now. He also said we HAVE to leave the sand tar and shale oil in the ground otherwise it will be too late in just 20 more years.

&#8592; Update on Bob Phelan – GOAL MET way to go WUWT’ers!!The “Toxic Twenty”: Keeping America’s Lights On &#8594;NASA’s James Hansen is just wrong: Proof that there is no increased drought in the USA tied to temperature
Posted on August 12, 2012 by Anthony Watts
From the James Hansen is just wrong department comes some inconvenient data, data that Dr. Hansen or anyone in the media could have easily looked up for themselves before writing irresponsible stories like this one:

Former Virginia State Climatologist Dr. Pat Michaels, in a guest opinion on WUWT said:

Hansen claims that global warming is associated with increased drought in the US. This is a testable hypothesis which he chose not to test, and, because PNAS isn’t truly peer-reviewed for Members like him, no one tested it for him.

I have [examined] drought data [that] are from NCDC, and the temperature record is Hansen’s own. His hypothesis is a complete and abject failure.

I’ve looked at the data too, and I agree, Hansen’s hypothesis is a dud, and in no way supported by NOAA’s own data to be “scientific fact”. But, because it has been spread by an irresponsible and incurious media, its is a dangerous “dud”.