If Health Law Is Overturned, What Will Liberals Do?

Mar 28, 2012 Full story: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com 4,941

If the Supreme Court strikes down all or part of President Obama 's health care law , it will have unraveled a legislative compromise that many liberals had viewed with suspicion from the beginning.

In one of the ironies of recent politics, Mr. Obama was a late convert to the merits of the individual mandate that now appears to be in danger of being declared unconstitutional.

But the president’s embrace of the mandate — and his willingness to abandon a so-called public option to get a health care deal — was a hard pill to swallow for many of his Democratic supporters.

The Affordable Care Act promises to provide health insurance to millions who lacked it. But it also stops far short of the idea that health care is a basic right for everyone living in the country. And it embraces the market-based system of private health care delivery that has long existed in America.

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Since: Oct 08

Alpharetta, GA

#2507 Jun 1, 2012
Contributions wrote:
<quoted text>
You are so utterly clueless that it's amazing.
Civilization itself runs on government regulations moron.
Police, roads, military, indoor plumbing, even god damn toilet paper.
Unless you live like the Uni-bomber in a hole in the ground out in the woods and wipe your ass with tree leafs you are benefiting from government regulations you ignorant child.
Wrong...the economy thrives on commerce....stuff has to be designed, built, transported, sold and serviced...and the people in that chair earn a salary, which is taxed, and then those taxes are used by govt to do stuff. The fact that govt wastes most of the money on stupid stuff is not relevent, but the economy does not thrive on govt regulations, it thrives on the taxes derived from commerce.
NEW

Owatonna, MN

#2508 Jun 1, 2012
inbred Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong...the economy thrives on commerce....stuff has to be designed, built, transported, sold and serviced...and the people in that chair earn a salary, which is taxed, and then those taxes are used by govt to do stuff. The fact that govt wastes most of the money on stupid stuff is not relevent, but the economy does not thrive on govt regulations, it thrives on the taxes derived from commerce.
He said civilazation thrives on government and laws and rules...

can you imagine if we had no rules or laws....Just from looking at business...companies dumping garange anywhere theyw anted and making the environment poison and treating people like slaves and making the nation total chaos....OH WAIT THAT IW JUST WHAT THE GOP WANT..........GASP!!!!!!!!!!
frank

Oakland, CA

#2509 Jun 1, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
You create a response like this and question the intelligence of others? Your spelling and punctuation is deplorable. Five year olds write better than you do.
You're the one babbling about corporate taxes are too high, I simply pointed out that no corporation in the US pays the 35% percent that you are insisting on! In fact, some are getting huge refunds in spit of millions in profits - it's easily documented.
Sorry Hemingway my typos confuse you, at least it gives you an excuse to attack me instead admitting that you do not have a clue :-/

Since: Oct 08

Alpharetta, GA

#2510 Jun 1, 2012
NEW wrote:
<quoted text>
He said civilazation thrives on government and laws and rules...
can you imagine if we had no rules or laws....Just from looking at business...companies dumping garange anywhere theyw anted and making the environment poison and treating people like slaves and making the nation total chaos....OH WAIT THAT IW JUST WHAT THE GOP WANT..........GASP!!!!!!!!!!
but then me bragged about police, fire, roads, bridges etc...where does the money for those come from?
NEW

Owatonna, MN

#2511 Jun 1, 2012
inbred Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
but then me bragged about police, fire, roads, bridges etc...where does the money for those come from?
Tax money pays for socialist cops and socialist fireman and socialist roads and socialist military....You see any money the government spends to help protec or run the gvoernment is SOCIAL spending which means socialism is a must in ANY nation...
Spocko

Oakland, CA

#2512 Jun 1, 2012
NEW wrote:
<quoted text>
Tax money pays for socialist cops and socialist fireman and socialist roads and socialist military....You see any money the government spends to help protec or run the gvoernment is SOCIAL spending which means socialism is a must in ANY nation...
Hey Bubba it's very simply, pack your bags and move to Somalia they have no Gov't and presto -- paradise for you! Bye, bye asshat ...
Spocko

Oakland, CA

#2513 Jun 1, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> You are starting to understand and see the big picture. Yes some how the labor force in the USA has to compete with the glowbalized worlds 50 cents per hour. If the workforce cannott make up the difference in wage disparity in some manner like increased productivity or a superior product. Then robotics and third world countries will continue to lessen demand for the relatively exorbant paid USA workers labor. Its a globallized world products services & labor will be done where its cheapest the least regulated and most profitable. No president or political solution can change that fact. The USA will continue to decline until the playing field is leveled. We will not have a level playing field until the third world comes up or we go down. Just what do you suppose will happen first. Our only hope is to become a more isolationist country With tarriffs etc, We need to scale back and ouit trying to be the worlds police. Or make those who are benifiting from the USA presense pay for it. Its not that the workforce should be paid less it that if the workforce isnt competieve the jobs & tax revenue they produce will continue to go away. The USA has one bright spot. We grow the most food & fiber. everyone has got to eat. We need to process all of our commodites here and make the rest of the world pay us for it.
Let's just say you are not completely wrong but your 'hunter gatherer' mentality is not gonna fly, not anymore, not in long time anymore :-/

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#2514 Jun 1, 2012
NEW wrote:
<quoted text>
Tax money pays for socialist cops and socialist fireman and socialist roads and socialist military....You see any money the government spends to help protec or run the gvoernment is SOCIAL spending which means socialism is a must in ANY nation...
exactly the United States is based on Socialism but is considered a Mixed Economy. Article 1 Section 8 Clause 1 is the bases and giveaway of Socialism in the US and how the Government gets involved in economical matters. just imagine what Capitalism would look like if one individual owning & controlling the police, fireman, road, & military, it would be a dictatorship and what true Capitalism is, not this mixed economy in the US we call American Capitalism.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Const...
Contributions

Plymouth, MN

#2515 Jun 1, 2012
inbred Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong...the economy thrives on commerce....stuff has to be designed, built, transported, sold and serviced...and the people in that chair earn a salary, which is taxed, and then those taxes are used by govt to do stuff. The fact that govt wastes most of the money on stupid stuff is not relevent, but the economy does not thrive on govt regulations, it thrives on the taxes derived from commerce.
How do you think Commerce happens retard?

What prevents someone from selling you poisonous food?

What prevents the neighboring vendor from killing you and taking all your goods?

What prevents people from robbing you and killing you?

The market economy exists solely due to government regulations moron. Without the government to set and enforce contracts and trade the Market would not exist because nothing would prevent someone from just killing you and taking all your goods for free.

This is the very basic premise of a market economy kid, it's sad that you are so utterly ignorant of this.
NEW

Owatonna, MN

#2516 Jun 1, 2012
Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Bubba it's very simply, pack your bags and move to Somalia they have no Gov't and presto -- paradise for you! Bye, bye asshat ...
No In Somalia you nazi fascist GOP would be at home...They have no workers rights laws and you could dump toxic waste anywhere you want and treat people like slaves..........

I will stay here in a civilized SOCIALIZED nation....You go to yoru dream nation of no laws or rules...

Since: Oct 08

Alpharetta, GA

#2517 Jun 1, 2012
between 'new','contributions' and 'don joe' posting from minnesota, I'm beginning to understand how Al Frankenputz got elected.
Contributions

Plymouth, MN

#2518 Jun 1, 2012
inbred Genius wrote:
between 'new','contributions' and 'don joe' posting from minnesota, I'm beginning to understand how Al Frankenputz got elected.
Between you, Chum, and Le Dumbo I'm beginning to understand how that nutbag Michelle Bachmann got elected.

People like you have a 4th grader's understanding of government and the markets elect talking head nutbags like Bachmann and contribute to the decline of the US.
Churmudgeon

Evening Shade, AR

#2519 Jun 1, 2012
inbred Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
but then me bragged about police, fire, roads, bridges etc...where does the money for those come from?
The money comes from Taxing the productive. And since that isnt enough the goverment borrows to make up for the shortfall.
Churmudgeon

Evening Shade, AR

#2520 Jun 1, 2012
Contributions wrote:
<quoted text>
You are so utterly clueless that it's amazing.
Civilization itself runs on government regulations moron.
Police, roads, military, indoor plumbing, even god damn toilet paper.
Unless you live like the Uni-bomber in a hole in the ground out in the woods and wipe your ass with tree leafs you are benefiting from government regulations you ignorant child.
I just had my lunch. Two deer burgers from a road killed deer. The tomato and lettuce came from my garden, the milk from my cow. My breakfast was a egg and two slices of bacon all grown and processed by me. No goverment got to tax and regulate those items. The only item,s from the store was the bread and iodized salt. Im working on a deal to barter milk and eggs for home baked bread made with flour from organic grown wheat. I do have a outdoor shitter. Nothing fancy like a two holer but its got a factory commode seat! Ive got one inside also. If a stranger is here and needs to use the toilet they use the privy. I dont let any strangers and very few friends in my home. Shoot Ive got relatives I wouldnt let in my house.
Contributions

Plymouth, MN

#2521 Jun 1, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> I just had my lunch. Two deer burgers from a road killed deer. The tomato and lettuce came from my garden, the milk from my cow. My breakfast was a egg and two slices of bacon all grown and processed by me.
Not everyone can live like that moron. There isn't enough deer in the world for everyone to do that.

That's the point you totally FAIL to get. Advances in civilization have allowed for a few like you to live semi off the grid but if everyone did that we'd fall back into the dark ages.

It's like I'm speaking to 4th graders here. The naivety and ignorance is overwhelming.
Churmudgeon

Evening Shade, AR

#2522 Jun 1, 2012
Contributions wrote:
<quoted text>
Not everyone can live like that moron. There isn't enough deer in the world for everyone to do that.
That's the point you totally FAIL to get. Advances in civilization have allowed for a few like you to live semi off the grid but if everyone did that we'd fall back into the dark ages.
It's like I'm speaking to 4th graders here. The naivety and ignorance is overwhelming.
there are more deer in north america than there ever was at any time in history. What I envision is a collapse of our production processing and dristribution of food in the USA. we will revert back to local craftsmen providing their goods and services to their local communities. This whole propped up world economy is gonna collapse.All it will take is a big clatyclismic event or some idiot in the middle east to start nuking. When the shit hits the fan those who are self reliant and Have Know How will be OK. Take katrina for example many could do nothing but be stranded on a brige or roof top and wait for fema. I would have torn up the roof and used the boards to make a raft or boat and paddled away. I dont have to be in a rural area to be self reliant. I have know how and could do well in any given situation. I once lived in St Louis and became broke & jobless. I fished in the mississippi by the arch. I cut the drift logs just south of the arch for firewood and sold it. I collected scrap from the curbside trash and sold it. I made box traps and caught rabbits & squirrils to eat. all in the big city.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#2523 Jun 1, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> You are starting to understand and see the big picture. Yes some how the labor force in the USA has to compete with the glowbalized worlds 50 cents per hour. If the workforce cannott make up the difference in wage disparity in some manner like increased productivity or a superior product. Then robotics and third world countries will continue to lessen demand for the relatively exorbant paid USA workers labor. Its a globallized world products services & labor will be done where its cheapest the least regulated and most profitable. No president or political solution can change that fact. The USA will continue to decline until the playing field is leveled. We will not have a level playing field until the third world comes up or we go down. Just what do you suppose will happen first. Our only hope is to become a more isolationist country With tarriffs etc, We need to scale back and ouit trying to be the worlds police. Or make those who are benifiting from the USA presense pay for it. Its not that the workforce should be paid less it that if the workforce isnt competieve the jobs & tax revenue they produce will continue to go away. The USA has one bright spot. We grow the most food & fiber. everyone has got to eat. We need to process all of our commodites here and make the rest of the world pay us for it.
I keep telling you to prove yourself and go 100% off the grid. That includes not using ANYTHING manufactured or provided with government regulation. That means you need to get the hell off your PC and internet connection, sell your truck, sell all of your household belongings and take your naked self into the woods to live.

TRY IT. There is a book in it.

"As Chinese wages rise, US manufacturers head back home

By 2015, Chinese wages will be high enough that it will be just as cheap to manufacture goods for the US market in America. Some US manufacturers aren't waiting.

...BCG points to seven industries that are nearing that break-even point: electronics, appliances, machinery, transportation goods, fabricated metals, furniture, and plastics and rubber – all products with relatively low labor content and high transportation costs."

CSM

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#2524 Jun 1, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> there are more deer in north america than there ever was at any time in history. What I envision is a collapse of our production processing and dristribution of food in the USA. we will revert back to local craftsmen providing their goods and services to their local communities. This whole propped up world economy is gonna collapse.All it will take is a big clatyclismic event or some idiot in the middle east to start nuking. When the shit hits the fan those who are self reliant and Have Know How will be OK. Take katrina for example many could do nothing but be stranded on a brige or roof top and wait for fema. I would have torn up the roof and used the boards to make a raft or boat and paddled away. I dont have to be in a rural area to be self reliant. I have know how and could do well in any given situation. I once lived in St Louis and became broke & jobless. I fished in the mississippi by the arch. I cut the drift logs just south of the arch for firewood and sold it. I collected scrap from the curbside trash and sold it. I made box traps and caught rabbits & squirrils to eat. all in the big city.
If you had the 'know how' then you would never have become broke in the first place. OK, maybe there isn't a book in it.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#2525 Jun 1, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> I just had my lunch. Two deer burgers from a road killed deer. The tomato and lettuce came from my garden, the milk from my cow. My breakfast was a egg and two slices of bacon all grown and processed by me. No goverment got to tax and regulate those items. The only item,s from the store was the bread and iodized salt. Im working on a deal to barter milk and eggs for home baked bread made with flour from organic grown wheat. I do have a outdoor shitter. Nothing fancy like a two holer but its got a factory commode seat! Ive got one inside also. If a stranger is here and needs to use the toilet they use the privy. I dont let any strangers and very few friends in my home. Shoot Ive got relatives I wouldnt let in my house.
How are you storing your deer meat? Where do you get your kitchen utensils from? What are your barter-mates using to feed the cows and the chickens in order to produce milk and eggs?

How are you going to retrieve the milk and eggs and flour? How are you going to store them?

When you are in the woods wearing your home made loin cloth and eating grubs you pick with your hands while living in a cave I may believe you. Until then you are just a whining baby tapping away at his PC, stretched out on his recliner, watching government regulated TV and downing one of those 32 oz Slurpees.
Contributions

Plymouth, MN

#2526 Jun 1, 2012
Churmudgeon wrote:
<quoted text> there are more deer in north america than there ever was at any time in history. What I envision is a collapse of our production processing and dristribution of food in the USA. we will revert back to local craftsmen providing their goods and services to their local communities.
Are you seriously this retarded? Or are you just trolling me?

You can't be possibly serious.

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