On This Day: Bill Wilson Founds Alcoholics Anonymous

mickey wrote:

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Because George Vaillant, Harvard professor, researcher, and member of AA's Board of Trustees was trying desperately to prove that A.A. worked, I am sure that he used every variable possible. In the end, Vaillant justified A.A. by the very cult driven attitude they always use, he blamed the members for the program not working by insisting that they were not using the program correctly. Vaillant couldn't prove A.A. worked because the study was done legitimately and he couldn't skew the results in his favor without ruining his reputation.
By the way, I like the dog barking thing you do every time you give your opinion. Do you chase cars and bite the mailman too?
No wait, maybe its just an ego thing, you bark and everyone is supposed to think your superior and the leader of the pack.
As for my entire thesis being based upon citation to one "study" which may or may not be valid, sorry dude but you are wrong. The forum is limited to the number of words you can use per post. Stick around, I have a whole lot more to say about A.A. and the reasons why it is a dangerous cult that ruins peoples lives through the use of manipulation, half-truths, misinformation and propaganda. And I wont have to bark like a dog to try and make myself look better or smarter than anyone else. You see, I am just here to voice my opinion, not to change anyone Else's. And just so you know, I won't be bullied into silence. I left A.A. because I was fed-up with a program full of puppets that cited useless information that propelled me into victim hood and held me back from finding an honest and workable solution to my problem. And furthermore, I don't accept anyone's definition of me; I define myself. So you see, you're opinion of me is just that, you're opinion, and frankly,I don't give a damn about you're opinion of me.

Sounds like you read way too much into a silly little salutation, originally dreamed up as a poke at a local poitician.

lighten up a little. Such defensive and bitter talk exposes things.

woof

mickey wrote:

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I’ll tell you what, instead of cross posting, how about I give you the links to some other forums I have posted in and you can post your views on them also. That way we can get more feedback from other people. I love feedback, it’s how I learn.
http://www.topix.com/forum/health/alcoholism/...
http://www.topix.com/forum/health/alcoholism/...
http://www.topix.com/health/alcoholism/2009/1...
http://www.topix.com/forum/health/alcoholism/...
I look forward to reading your comments.

Thanks for the invite, I appreciate it. But there is far too much work to be done here in the woods to permit me to endlessly surf the net posting my opinions about any particular subject. A little bit is all I have time for.

Suffice to say we disagree about some things and agree on others. I think aa works for some, not all. I think that only those who actually are willing to turn their lives around will, and if one truly doesn't want it, it simply won't happen no matter what sort of "program" one chooses. I don't like the christian bent that surrounds many meetings. I think spirituality benefits everyone who finds it, regadless whether they have issues with addiction. I don't like organized religion.

You seem to be hellbent on turning others away from even thinking of attending a meeting, and your zealous pursuit of that mission seems to be grounded in your own experiences at and distaste for aa and its membership and program.

So be it. I've listened enough. I'm moving on.

woof

what kind of snacks they have at AA meetings ?

Bob wrote:

what kind of snacks they have at AA meetings ?

coffee.

RDL wrote:

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coffee.

There's the proof. Its all a ruse, with the sole purpose of raising money and tricking people into a lifetime committment.

Ingenious!!!

woof

Duke for Mayor wrote:

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Sounds like you read way too much into a silly little salutation, originally dreamed up as a poke at a local poitician.
lighten up a little. Such defensive and bitter talk exposes things.
woof

Damn, I thought the car and mailman thing was funny. I must be losing my touch. As far as being defensive and bitter, you must be reading far to deep between the lines. However I guess I could have made the statement that I really don't give a shit about anybody's opinion of me, I like who I am and that's all that counts. There was definitely a time when I couldn't say that.

Duke for Mayor wrote:

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Thanks for the invite, I appreciate it. But there is far too much work to be done here in the woods to permit me to endlessly surf the net posting my opinions about any particular subject. A little bit is all I have time for.
Suffice to say we disagree about some things and agree on others. I think aa works for some, not all. I think that only those who actually are willing to turn their lives around will, and if one truly doesn't want it, it simply won't happen no matter what sort of "program" one chooses. I don't like the christian bent that surrounds many meetings. I think spirituality benefits everyone who finds it, regadless whether they have issues with addiction. I don't like organized religion.
You seem to be hellbent on turning others away from even thinking of attending a meeting, and your zealous pursuit of that mission seems to be grounded in your own experiences at and distaste for aa and its membership and program.
So be it. I've listened enough. I'm moving on.
woof

I agree, we do have some very different opinions on many things and yet we are still able to agree on other topics, and I think it is great. You make the forum interesting, if we all agreed on everything that was said, it would be an awfully boring forum. Unfortunately, I feel that you and many others on here have taken everyone’s opinions far too personal. Everyone on here has something to say, and they have the right to and deserve to voice their opinions. I am sure that I don’t always come across as not being judgmental; I wish I could, but I know it is never going to happen. I try to say what I want without slinging mud at others, but sometimes I slip and do that too. I just accept that I am human and no different than anyone else on here. As for being hell bent on turning others away from even thinking of attending an A.A. meeting, nothing could be further from the truth. I hope that someone that is thinking of attending an A.A. meeting reads everyone’s comments and then takes in a few meeting so they can form a sound and reasonable opinion of A.A. on their own. I have to agree with you on the “your own experiences at and distaste for aa” you are absolutely right; a lot of what I say here is based around my experiences in A.A. As for distaste for the A.A. membership, I simply find them close- minded, if they weren’t close-minded, they would investigate other treatment methods, read other material besides A.A. approved literature and they would examine different studies that have disproved the majority of what A.A. tries to promote as the truth about alcoholism and recovery.
Another thing I do agree with you on is you’re statement:“I think that only those who actually are willing to turn their lives around will, and if one truly doesn't want it, it simply won't happen no matter what sort of "program" one chooses.” However, we seem to part when the suggestion that if the person is actually making a choice to turn their life around, are they not disproving the A.A. theory that they are powerless? Isn’t making the choice to do something about you’re problem a form of self-empowerment? And if you can make that choice and are willing to go to any length to achieve it, then why would you need to attend any kind of meeting? I guess now is a good time to make the statement that I don’t believe that any form of self-help group that is solely run by it’s members is healthy and I have a huge list of reasons for feeling that way.
Anyway, sorry you’re moving on, I was enjoying our little discussions.

Bob wrote:

what kind of snacks they have at AA meetings ?

No Oreos, FigNewtons or Donutz ?

Bob wrote:

<quoted text> No Oreos, FigNewtons or Donutz ?

Sometimes stale donuts or generic sandwich cookies.

RU_Kiddingme wrote:

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Ja. Dag Hammarskjöld ist mein BOY!

Hmm. I dunno wedder be suspicious or repulsed. I juss laff insted.

Ich bin ein chrome dinette.

Duke for Mayor wrote:

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Sounds like you read way too much into a silly little salutation, originally dreamed up as a poke at a local poitician.
lighten up a little. Such defensive and bitter talk exposes things.
woof

After considering what you have said here, I decided to further add to my comment. You’re comment that I am defensive and bitter and should lighten up is a total ruse to try and shame me into believing that I should have know that you’re “silly little salutation” was originally dreamed up as a poke at a local politician. I think maybe it is you that should lighten up. Either you are trying to manipulate me into thinking you are perfect or you seriously believe that everyone has some uncanny ability to magically know that you dreamed up this salutation as a poke at a politician. Without any further knowledge of your salutation other than a simple “woof” at the end of all you’re comments, I don’t think I read way too much into anything. As for being defensive and bitter, sorry dude, but you are the one with transference issues. I have to admit that you are very good at manipulating a situation and you almost fooled me here. Fortunately after some consideration I managed to see that you are just another person that believes everyone should know all you’re thoughts and be able to understand them exactly the way you mean, even if you fail to provide all the information to make an accurate interpretation. Get real; no one has the ability to do that. And the car and dog thing was funny, so maybe you should lighten up and quit being so anal.

Scooter Moonpie wrote:

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Hmm. I dunno wedder be suspicious or repulsed. I juss laff insted.
Ich bin ein chrome dinette.

neine neinty five icken der value city.

mickey wrote:

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After considering what you have said here, I decided to further add to my comment. You’re comment that I am defensive and bitter and should lighten up is a total ruse to try and shame me into believing that I should have know that you’re “silly little salutation” was originally dreamed up as a poke at a local politician. I think maybe it is you that should lighten up. Either you are trying to manipulate me into thinking you are perfect or you seriously believe that everyone has some uncanny ability to magically know that you dreamed up this salutation as a poke at a politician. Without any further knowledge of your salutation other than a simple “woof” at the end of all you’re comments, I don’t think I read way too much into anything. As for being defensive and bitter, sorry dude, but you are the one with transference issues. I have to admit that you are very good at manipulating a situation and you almost fooled me here. Fortunately after some consideration I managed to see that you are just another person that believes everyone should know all you’re thoughts and be able to understand them exactly the way you mean, even if you fail to provide all the information to make an accurate interpretation. Get real; no one has the ability to do that. And the car and dog thing was funny, so maybe you should lighten up and quit being so anal.

Thanks.

Where do I remit payment?

woof

Duke for Mayor wrote:

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Thanks.
Where do I remit payment?
woof

Remit payment here, thanks.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/P/Proct...

went through court a 2 years ago for a failure to submit to a breathalyzer charge.this was in kent with dickhead plough-yeah the one being charged by state for violating defendants rights and having his law license revoked.anyways,i plead not guilty of a d.u.i.,which at this point he tells me i will spend 6 months in jail if i don't plead out.my attorney says his hands are tied so i plead guilty to avoid the max.he orders me to undergo treatment for alcoholism at my cost of $1600 in a portage county facility.by the ridiculous criteria of alcoholism they tell the court that i need more treatment,that they can provide at extra cost.i have no choice because the judge said it is required.because of all this i lost my job with the dept of homeland security and have had trouble finding work since.just to let people know,all is not what it seems on paper.by the way,the 12 step program is a little heavy on the god stuff.doesn't work so good for a free thinker.

Ronald Reagan wrote:

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I'll attempt to help you, once again.
The only way someone could claim I have MPD is due to the change in tenor of my recent posts. After ragging on RUK so hard on another topic and my own recent lapse in judgement, I've done some introspection and decided to clean it up a bit. It's not to say I won't revert to my old style on occasion when provoked (I take great pride in rising to the occasion) or if a certain sister grim starts it up with me again.
Where is the tolerance for others I hear many religious cults espouse? I think you just don't like it when people debunk the myths you believe and have based your "recovery" on.
I am against religion based on life long experience/observation and recognizing the damage these cults have caused society. The republican't party has been turned into an absolute joke and citizens of this country are dying everyday due to religion. Do I need to mention the damage done to the country and world by the last occupants of the White House?
I truly think religion is the greatest scourge on mankind throughout history and today.
Convince me religion makes any sense at all, debunk these 2 thoughts:
"Religion easily has the best bullshit story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man ... living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of 10 specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money."
Spirituality: the last refuge of a failed human. Just another way of distracting yourself from who you really are."
Courtesy of George Carlin
**********
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it as I detest everything that is cruel.
- Thomas Paine

Here's one for all those A.A. members that think "God" will give them the answer. Kind of makes me wonder who is talking back to them.:))
“Why is it that when we talk to God we’re said to be praying, but when God talks to us we’re schizophrenic?”– Lily Tomlin

Are you Mickey Finn, or Mickey Widemouth?

Scooter Moonpie wrote:

Are you Mickey Finn, or Mickey Widemouth?

"Get Stung"