No health insurance? Pay a fine

Did anybody expect any common sense from this
socialist administration?

Worthless POS.

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
You think that the Swift Boat Scumbags denigrating military medals is a good idea?

John Kerry tossed "his" medal over the White House fence, as a gesture of protest. THAT is denigrating military medals. It turns out, it wasn't even his medal, making the act even more despicable.

I'm not exactly sure of your definition of "scumbag".

No health insurance? go to the ER,like the mexicans.

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Not at all. OID believes the quality of health care will not be lowered. I only pointed out that mathematically, it is the only possible outcome.

Actually health care will IMPROVE with single payer health care. Here's why:

1. Doctors and nurses will no longer spend 1/3rd of their day trying to get permission from health insurance bureaucrats and clerks to do procedures for their patients.

2. Everyone will have a full and detailed electronic record on a card to carry around to any provider they choose. Rush won't be able to doctor shop and get extra Oxy but who cares about Rush. Full medical records (no pre existing conditions to worry about) will make for improved care.

3. Americans will be much healthier since prevention and not profiting from disease will be the purpose of health care.

4. Etc.

You don't have any game...you must be Palin LOL.

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
John Kerry tossed "his" medal over the White House fence, as a gesture of protest. THAT is denigrating military medals. It turns out, it wasn't even his medal, making the act even more despicable.
I'm not exactly sure of your definition of "scumbag".

The Swift Boat Scumbags denigrated ALL military medals by proclaiming that the military gives out medals without checking to see that they are deserved.

According to them, the military is corrupt and stupid and all medals to all military personnel are suspect.

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually health care will IMPROVE with single payer health care. Here's why:
1. Doctors and nurses will no longer spend 1/3rd of their day trying to get permission from health insurance bureaucrats and clerks to do procedures for their patients.
2. Everyone will have a full and detailed electronic record on a card to carry around to any provider they choose. Rush won't be able to doctor shop and get extra Oxy but who cares about Rush. Full medical records (no pre existing conditions to worry about) will make for improved care.
3. Americans will be much healthier since prevention and not profiting from disease will be the purpose of health care.
4. Etc.
You don't have any game...you must be Palin LOL.

1. Doctors and nurses do not spend their time dealing with insurance companies. There is an admin staff for this purpose.

2. Pure supposition. Compliancy is impossible to manage, and current HIPAA laws would have to be changed first.

3. Prevention requires compliance. This cannot be mandated. Profit? It's a good thing; the ultimate motivator.

4. Uhm... sure... whatever.(Poor child.)

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
The Swift Boat Scumbags denigrated ALL military medals by proclaiming that the military gives out medals without checking to see that they are deserved.
According to them, the military is corrupt and stupid and all medals to all military personnel are suspect.

Kerry instigated it, but he get's a free pass? Whatever. It's OT anyway.

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
1. Doctors and nurses do not spend their time dealing with insurance companies. There is an admin staff for this purpose.
2. Pure supposition. Compliancy is impossible to manage, and current HIPAA laws would have to be changed first.
3. Prevention requires compliance. This cannot be mandated. Profit? It's a good thing; the ultimate motivator.
4. Uhm... sure... whatever.(Poor child.)

Doctors spend up to 1/3rd of their time dealing with insurance companies. They have to hire people just to administer the paperwork and argue with insurance companies who are intent on not paying out one penny more than they absolutely have to.

Duke medical system: 900 beds.
Duke medical system: 900 billing clerks.

You can't see the inefficiency and cost in that? No wonder you are a right winger, you can't do math.

Compliance for what? The prevention of doctor shopping and illegal Rush Limbaugh oxy activities using a single payer system? Is that what you are babbling about? Of course it would improve compliance to the laws because it would be a single database.

Are you going to miss doctor shopping? Is that what your problem is?

You think that profit is the ultimate motivator (it is not but let's go with your inane supposition) then you can't imagine a profit making prevention program for primary care physicians?

No?

The UK already has a bonus program for this very purpose.

The problem with Palin The Quitter is her aggressive pursuit of absolute ignorance. It is a disease that is well established in the right wing.

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Kerry instigated it, but he get's a free pass? Whatever. It's OT anyway.

Kerry didn't instigate any of it. The Swift Boat Scumbags declared that the US military gives out medals like candy so that they are worthless.

Try telling that to people without limbs but with Purple Hearts.

Go on, I dare you.

Tony wrote:

Oregon is disgusting is really quite nutty. Do they have free mental health care in Canada. You should check into it.

He has been waiting 8 months for his appointment.

Massachutts has this system in place now, and its done nothing good. There health costs are soaring to the point taat all employer health insurance will be unafordable. Soon companies will move out of state. just like california.

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Doctors spend up to 1/3rd of their time dealing with insurance companies. They have to hire people just to administer the paperwork and argue with insurance companies who are intent on not paying out one penny more than they absolutely have to.
Duke medical system: 900 beds.
Duke medical system: 900 billing clerks.
You can't see the inefficiency and cost in that? No wonder you are a right winger, you can't do math.
Compliance for what? The prevention of doctor shopping and illegal Rush Limbaugh oxy activities using a single payer system? Is that what you are babbling about? Of course it would improve compliance to the laws because it would be a single database.
Are you going to miss doctor shopping? Is that what your problem is?
You think that profit is the ultimate motivator (it is not but let's go with your inane supposition) then you can't imagine a profit making prevention program for primary care physicians?
No?
The UK already has a bonus program for this very purpose.
The problem with Palin The Quitter is her aggressive pursuit of absolute ignorance. It is a disease that is well established in the right wing.

Here is your math:
http://www.dukemedicine.org/AboutUs/Facts_and...
Inpatient admissions: 61,827
Outpatient visits: 1,488,278
Number of surgical procedures, including endoscopy: 78,656

900 admin out of almost 21,000 employees, to process over 1.5 million patients? You call this excessive?
891 house staff physicians, yet you claim only 900 beds?

Where do you get your information from? Talk about trouble with math...

Compliance with HIPAA laws, that's what.

The UK's system is insolvent and inadequate.

Palin is OT, and doesn't belong in this debate.

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Kerry didn't instigate any of it. The Swift Boat Scumbags declared that the US military gives out medals like candy so that they are worthless.
Try telling that to people without limbs but with Purple Hearts.
Go on, I dare you.

Kerry marketed himself as a war hero, in spite of his despicable behavior. THAT is instigation.

LOL. Where do you pull this stuff from? You can not honestly believe some of the stuff you post.

And there is not a billing clerk assigned to each bed in a hospital. To even suggest that show your lack of understand about the issue.

A single payer system will not eliminate people who can afford it from paying for the care they need or want. You really have no clue what you are talking about.

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Doctors spend up to 1/3rd of their time dealing with insurance companies. They have to hire people just to administer the paperwork and argue with insurance companies who are intent on not paying out one penny more than they absolutely have to.
Duke medical system: 900 beds.
Duke medical system: 900 billing clerks.
You can't see the inefficiency and cost in that? No wonder you are a right winger, you can't do math.
Compliance for what? The prevention of doctor shopping and illegal Rush Limbaugh oxy activities using a single payer system? Is that what you are babbling about? Of course it would improve compliance to the laws because it would be a single database.
Are you going to miss doctor shopping? Is that what your problem is?
You think that profit is the ultimate motivator (it is not but let's go with your inane supposition) then you can't imagine a profit making prevention program for primary care physicians?
No?
The UK already has a bonus program for this very purpose.
The problem with Palin The Quitter is her aggressive pursuit of absolute ignorance. It is a disease that is well established in the right wing.

Why Fiscal Conservatives Should Love Medicare-for-All

Good, Old-Fashioned U.S. Socialized Medicine

By CAROL MILLER
CounterPunch
June 29, 2009

Call me old fashioned, but a true conservative is someone who conserves, dislikes wasting money and is offended by endless corporate bailouts by hard-working taxpayers. A fiscal conservative like me. As a public health professional, I want to see health dollars used to keep people healthy through public health and wellness programs, as well as provide medical care when it’s needed.

We have a health care crisis in the United States. Nearly 50 million people do not have health insurance, and they are our family and neighbors.

There are 500,000 medical bankruptcies every year. Most of these half million families had health insurance; at least they thought they did because every month they paid for insurance. Millions of people have learned the hard way that for-profit sickness insurance does not prevent financial ruin during a health crisis.

One of the worst lies thrown around every time Congress debates health care is that the U.S. will end up with socialized medicine. Socialized medicine is when the government owns and operates health facilities as well as pays the salaries of the doctors, nurses and the rest of the healthcare work force.

Let me say as clearly as possible — President Obama and the Congress are not discussing, introducing or enacting socialized medicine.

Good old-fashioned U.S. socialized medicine

Today, the U.S. already has socialized medical systems serving more than 20 million people. The current U.S. socialized medicine systems are very popular. The largest in terms of numbers of people is the Military Health System. The largest in terms of numbers of facilities owned and operated is the Veterans Administration health system. Two additional smaller U.S. socialized medical systems are the Indian Health Service and the federal Bureau of Prisons.

Despite being socialized medicine, the VA is ranked the highest in a national survey of patient satisfaction by the University of Michigan. U.S. taxpayers own the 155 VA hospitals and 881 clinics; we employ 289,000 people working in the VA including 16,000 doctors and 42,000 nurses.

Even the bastion of capitalism, Fortune magazine, is impressed by VA health care, stating,“The seamless integration of science, information, and compassion is the dream of modern health care. Scenes like these are not fantasies, however, but daily realities at the Veterans Health Administration.”(Fortune, May 2006.)...

"Americans struggle to pay for healthcare-study
Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:00am EDT

*25 percent of households have trouble paying

*40 percent expect to delay care this summer

*Baby boomers hardest hit

By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

WASHINGTON, June 22 (Reuters)- Americans are struggling to pay for healthcare in the ongoing economic recession, with a quarter saying they have had trouble in the past 12 months, according to a survey released on Monday.

Baby boomers -- the generation born between 1946 and 1964 -- had the most trouble and were the most likely to put off medical treatments or services, said researchers at Center for Healthcare Improvement, part of the Healthcare business of Thomson Reuters (TRI.N).

The study, available here, found that 17.4 percent of households reported postponing or delaying healthcare over the past year.

The U.S. Congress is working on a way to cover more of the 46 million people who lack health insurance, lower costs and coordinate care better. President Barack Obama has made it one of his administration's top priorities.

Americans pay more per capita for healthcare than people in any other country, yet have high rates of infant mortality, diabetes, untreated heart disease and other conditions. Americans are often dissatisfied with their access to care...."

"At a U.S. Senate Finance Committee meeting on Nov. 19, 2008, Dr. Uwe Reinhardt said,“We have 900 billing clerks at Duke (medical system, 900-bed hospital). I’m not sure we have a nurse per (each) bed, but we have a billing clerk per bed ... it’s obscene.”

----------

It is horrific.

So where's the link to the articel and where is the raw data the author used for her conclusions?

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

Why Fiscal Conservatives Should Love Medicare-for-All
Good, Old-Fashioned U.S. Socialized Medicine
By CAROL MILLER
CounterPunch
June 29, 2009
Call me old fashioned, but a true conservative is someone who conserves, dislikes wasting money and is offended by endless corporate bailouts by hard-working taxpayers. A fiscal conservative like me. As a public health professional, I want to see health dollars used to keep people healthy through public health and wellness programs, as well as provide medical care when it’s needed.
We have a health care crisis in the United States. Nearly 50 million people do not have health insurance, and they are our family and neighbors.
There are 500,000 medical bankruptcies every year. Most of these half million families had health insurance; at least they thought they did because every month they paid for insurance. Millions of people have learned the hard way that for-profit sickness insurance does not prevent financial ruin during a health crisis.
One of the worst lies thrown around every time Congress debates health care is that the U.S. will end up with socialized medicine. Socialized medicine is when the government owns and operates health facilities as well as pays the salaries of the doctors, nurses and the rest of the healthcare work force.
Let me say as clearly as possible — President Obama and the Congress are not discussing, introducing or enacting socialized medicine.
Good old-fashioned U.S. socialized medicine
Today, the U.S. already has socialized medical systems serving more than 20 million people. The current U.S. socialized medicine systems are very popular. The largest in terms of numbers of people is the Military Health System. The largest in terms of numbers of facilities owned and operated is the Veterans Administration health system. Two additional smaller U.S. socialized medical systems are the Indian Health Service and the federal Bureau of Prisons.
Despite being socialized medicine, the VA is ranked the highest in a national survey of patient satisfaction by the University of Michigan. U.S. taxpayers own the 155 VA hospitals and 881 clinics; we employ 289,000 people working in the VA including 16,000 doctors and 42,000 nurses.
Even the bastion of capitalism, Fortune magazine, is impressed by VA health care, stating,“The seamless integration of science, information, and compassion is the dream of modern health care. Scenes like these are not fantasies, however, but daily realities at the Veterans Health Administration.”(Fortune, May 2006.)...

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

"Americans struggle to pay for healthcare-study
Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:00am EDT
*25 percent of households have trouble paying
*40 percent expect to delay care this summer
*Baby boomers hardest hit
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor
WASHINGTON, June 22 (Reuters)- Americans are struggling to pay for healthcare in the ongoing economic recession, with a quarter saying they have had trouble in the past 12 months, according to a survey released on Monday.
Baby boomers -- the generation born between 1946 and 1964 -- had the most trouble and were the most likely to put off medical treatments or services, said researchers at Center for Healthcare Improvement, part of the Healthcare business of Thomson Reuters (TRI.N).
The study, available here, found that 17.4 percent of households reported postponing or delaying healthcare over the past year.
The U.S. Congress is working on a way to cover more of the 46 million people who lack health insurance, lower costs and coordinate care better. President Barack Obama has made it one of his administration's top priorities.
Americans pay more per capita for healthcare than people in any other country, yet have high rates of infant mortality, diabetes, untreated heart disease and other conditions. Americans are often dissatisfied with their access to care...."

"Americans struggle to pay for healthcare"

They are also struggling to make their house payment and car payment.
Shall we fund those as well?
If so why work to better ones lot in life?

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Here is your math:
http://www.dukemedicine.org/AboutUs/Facts_and...
Inpatient admissions: 61,827
Outpatient visits: 1,488,278
Number of surgical procedures, including endoscopy: 78,656
900 admin out of almost 21,000 employees, to process over 1.5 million patients? You call this excessive?
891 house staff physicians, yet you claim only 900 beds?
Where do you get your information from? Talk about trouble with math...
Compliance with HIPAA laws, that's what.
The UK's system is insolvent and inadequate.
Palin is OT, and doesn't belong in this debate.

Didn't we go over this same lie before on the other thread?