Should the US have universal healthcare?

First, who ever said you need health insurance to receive health care? Health insurance does need to be in the middle of a doctor treating his/her patients..www.SurgeryFairPrice .com

Phil Gray wrote:

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LOL I don't need to change my screen name is this your 6th or 7th now.

She's just baiting you. She misses you. ;)

Ayn of Cunuckistan wrote:

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WHICH WOULD RESULT IN NOT HAVING INSURANCE. NO PREMIUM...NO INSURANCE...RIGHT?
A fine by any other name is still a fine. Does it make sense to charge people more of what they don't already have? No...it doesn't. America just loves punishment and retribution, even when it comes to health care. Crazy...

Then keep your azz in canada the taxpayer of America sure has provided for you and your children . for someone who ran off and joined a Socialist Commune you sure came back to the taxpayer for food stamps an education and (other assistance more than likely) Now you come on here and say America loves punishment. how about you pay the taxpayer back what you took You socialist freak

SURE the US should have universal, intergalactic health care. But that's not what you're going to get. I GUARANTEEEEE IT!

What you will get is REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH! That is the Radical Democrat's mantra. It's got nothing to do with "health" or "care" or anything else that would do this country some good.

It is putting America into a blender and coming out with a creamy dough that fits a certain size cookie cutter.

If I work harder and longer hours than you I should earn more, RIGHT? Not in this Obama's nation. From each according to his ability; to each according to his need. Thank you Karl Hussein Marx.

If you can get up from watching Oprah, RUN don't walk for the nearest exit. America could masquerade as a democratic country as long as the government kept its hands off the rich who made it run.(You think JOBS make wealth?) If you have any interest in history (if it's available on your Kindle) the last time government stuck its foot in the soup, Roosevelt's Depression lasted ten years longer than it should have. In fact, he started a second Depression in 1937.

Those of you sucking hind tit (which is most of you) don't want to hear this. You just want your government checks to show up on time. Be patient. Pretty soon it will just be paper.

Observer- wrote:

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Please provide a link for the $8 billion in "Profits" please?

I can’t give you a URL but I CAN tell you how to access that data. Google the Fortune 1000. It contains data taken from the 2008 10K reports all companies selling stock must send to the Securities and Exchange Commission each year. It requires a major effort but that data can be downloaded to Excel.

Actually there are 14 companies that sell health care insurance among the largest 1000 in the U.S. In order of decreasing revenues they are, UnitedHealth Group, WellPoint, Aetna, Humana, Cigna, Health Net, Coventry Health Care, WellCare Health Plans, Universal American, Amerigroup, Centene, Molina Healthcare, Medical Mutual, of Ohio and HealthSpring. Revenues range from $81.186 billion down to $2,188 billion and profits from $2.977 billion to two (WellCare and Amerigroup) who lost money. The sum of profits for all 14 was $8.6139 billion. Profits for the largest 10 were $8.2755 billion…not too far from what Jane claimed.

If you want even more details you can access the Shareholder’s Reports of at least most of these companies.

Aquarius-WY wrote:

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It is NOT the patients that are the committers of fraud in Medicare and Medicaid ... they are the innocent "recipients" that have to pay for it all in the form of taxes.
The ones committing fraud in medicare and medicaid are the providers of medical goods, supplies, and services.
If an area of coverage thru medicare or medicaid allows a maximum of 6 of any one item of service to any patient, it is damn near ALWAYS billed out at the maximum of 6 units of whatever it is even if the patient only needs and utilizes 2 units of service/product.
Have you ever tried to report medicare fraud to the 800 number? If so what was your experience?

I believe there is fraud both by SOME providers and SOME recipients. One area of fraud is in those devices for transportation of the handicapped. I’ve seen people get out of them and walk more than once and even saw one man pushing one down the street!

However I also believe the vast majority of both providers and recipients are honest.

skeptic wrote:

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I can’t give you a URL but I CAN tell you how to access that data. Google the Fortune 1000. It contains data taken from the 2008 10K reports all companies selling stock must send to the Securities and Exchange Commission each year. It requires a major effort but that data can be downloaded to Excel.
Actually there are 14 companies that sell health care insurance among the largest 1000 in the U.S. In order of decreasing revenues they are, UnitedHealth Group, WellPoint, Aetna, Humana, Cigna, Health Net, Coventry Health Care, WellCare Health Plans, Universal American, Amerigroup, Centene, Molina Healthcare, Medical Mutual, of Ohio and HealthSpring. Revenues range from $81.186 billion down to $2,188 billion and profits from $2.977 billion to two (WellCare and Amerigroup) who lost money. The sum of profits for all 14 was $8.6139 billion. Profits for the largest 10 were $8.2755 billion…not too far from what Jane claimed.
If you want even more details you can access the Shareholder’s Reports of at least most of these companies.

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Profit???? Total profits after paying all company expenses to include salaries and benefits, operational expenses, etc????

Peter wrote:

I love how they say that the Republican plan wants people to get sick and just die.
Oh really?
So what is the univeral health care system want?
Have basic care, but if you're in desperate need of an important surgery- you're gonna have to wait- a long time- too bad?? Oh gosh- that procedure isn't ESSENTIAL- right?
LOL
THe government trashes everything it touches, as it is with healthcare.
As one Candian said, we have 1970 healthcare prices- for 1970 quality care.

The Republicans and their voice(FOX news) are free to missinform people as it fits their agenda.(ie. death panels) in the last eight years the republicans mislead us in the most dire need for leadership. before that the republicans went on a witch hunt against their foe Bill Clinton, when they couldent dig up the sh*t on whitewater they delved into his personal life mistakes and actually tried to Impeach him.(meanwhile Cheney is "forgetting" actual things he wrote and said. Now without even a year under his belt Obama is attempting to do what the voters want, and your attacking him? Unbelievable.

i love the white man paying for my healthcare and taxes,ive got it made with my stamps card and welfare now,am home free,i had a dream,am going fishing and looking for white women this weeknd to havesa sex and some good old mullets to eat

Vote Green Party wrote:

<quoted text>Too bad bush lover. I even hear the tea-baggers are going next to Florida and taking another one of your guys out.
HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! I support a 3rd party - even them - all the way.
And speaking of progress:
Greens make gains in city council races across the US on Election Day 2009, with a 35% victory rate
http://www.gp.org/elections/2009-videos/novem...
www.gp.org
Vote Green Party wrote:
Versus what? The party of george bush, pedophiles, racists, quitters, and adulterers?
Again you guys are hilarious. You criticize others seeming to ignore the fact that your party is a joke. Down to 20%.
Good luck finding a conservative that will even admit they voted for george bush and was one of his cheerleader.
Heres a short list ensign, vitter, foley, duke, bachman, palin, beck, limbag.
Vote Green Party wrote:
<quoted text>Actually my party is growing. People are figuring out the dems are just a step below the conservatives in terms of effectiveness.
Many are calling for a 3rd party now.

You’re full of it.

First, I’m far from a “Bush lover” though I did vote for him twice…first against “Global Warming Gore” and again when his lies about WMDs fooled me as they did many liberals. I believe we’ve gone not just 8 but 16 years under the two worst Presidents of my lifetime (reaching back to Hoover) and may be due for 4 or 8 more. I’m a fiscal conservative but social libertarian and neither party wants me (except for campaign contributions). I skipped the top position on my 2008 ballot. Though I would have preferred McCain to Obama I couldn’t stand the thought of Palin in the Oval Office and with McCain’s age that seemed entirely possible.

Next, the “Palin Republicans” account for more nearly 25 than the 20% you’ve used ad nausum. Pelosi Democrats account for about 35%. Green Party advocates account for less than 0.2%…primarily reverse racists. The earth won’t last long enough for your party to account for even 5%. You may indeed elect a few to minor local offices but not to any of general interest. Even Ron Paul does manage to get elected to Congress (as a Republican).

One can find scoundrels ANYWHERE there is power to be had or money to be made…neither the Republican nor Democratic Parties are exceptions. Cynthia can hardly be held out as a paragon of virtue!

Finally, I have nothing against a third party, in fact voted for H. Ross Perot in the Bush (Sr.) vs. Clinton election and for Kinky Friedman in our last gubernatorial election. I merely ask that they show at least an ounce of intelligence. The Green Party candidates and their advocates have shown me absolutely none.

Again, put on your Dunce Cap and go sit in the corner!

Observer- wrote:

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Profit???? Total profits after paying all company expenses to include salaries and benefits, operational expenses, etc????

Yes. All business expenses are shown in the Stockholder’s Reports and summarized in the 10Ks. False reporting is punishable by jail terms. Better not give different data to the IRS!

In fact there almost certainly have been excessively high salaries paid to some in those companies. Waxman has requested data on all who made over half a million, in any of the last eight years if I recall correctly, from nearly all those 14 companies.

Put that in perspective. It would take over a century for those profits to equal the $1 trillion plus the CBO says the House bill will cost. Those profits are 3.13% of revenues…quite a bit less than the average for large companies. Even Wal-Mart made 3.3% and the largest pharmaceutical company, Johnson & Johnson made 20.3%!

METALMAN9 wrote:

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The Republicans and their voice(FOX news) are free to missinform people as it fits their agenda.(ie. death panels) in the last eight years the republicans mislead us in the most dire need for leadership. before that the republicans went on a witch hunt against their foe Bill Clinton, when they couldent dig up the sh*t on whitewater they delved into his personal life mistakes and actually tried to Impeach him.(meanwhile Cheney is "forgetting" actual things he wrote and said. Now without even a year under his belt Obama is attempting to do what the voters want, and your attacking him? Unbelievable.

What YOU want is not necessarily what the voters want!

I agree that Clinton’s sex life was none of our affair and Gingrich, the media (far from just Fox) and “we the people” erred in making anything of it.

Whitewater is another matter and still smells. Clinton pardoned the gal jailed for refusal to testify and I believe he even plea bargained and pleaded guilty to a lesser offence over that one. All he lost was the right to practice law…as if he ever would.

skeptic wrote:

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Yes. All business expenses are shown in the Stockholder’s Reports and summarized in the 10Ks. False reporting is punishable by jail terms. Better not give different data to the IRS!
In fact there almost certainly have been excessively high salaries paid to some in those companies. Waxman has requested data on all who made over half a million, in any of the last eight years if I recall correctly, from nearly all those 14 companies.
Put that in perspective. It would take over a century for those profits to equal the $1 trillion plus the CBO says the House bill will cost. Those profits are 3.13% of revenues…quite a bit less than the average for large companies. Even Wal-Mart made 3.3% and the largest pharmaceutical company, Johnson & Johnson made 20.3%!

Interesting Post. Too tired to comment.

Seems the judge-it genie is after you now too. Welcome to the club.

Have a good night all.

negro class act wrote:

i love the white man paying for my healthcare and taxes,ive got it made with my stamps card and welfare now,am home free,i had a dream,am going fishing and looking for white women this weeknd to havesa sex and some good old mullets to eat

You are Vile.

Observer- wrote:

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Fraud could be prevented and stopped today in ALL government wealth redistribution schemes like Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, social security, et al if the federal government and particularly the liberal Democrats in Congress and Senate allowed one simple little thing.
ABSOLUTE ACCOUNTABILITY, PROOF OF ELIGIBILITY, AND PENALITES FOR ELIGIBILITY FRAUD THAT ARE ACTUALLY UPHELD.
I hate to say this again for the millionth time on this thread. I work every single day with Medicare, Medicaid, and Tricare. All three are government healthcare programs. The only one not overrun with fraud is Tricare but even that would be if it weren't for the fact that Tricare is the military healthcare program where it is harder to fraud.
Medicare and Medicaid are frauded by patients in this office every single day. It's easy to fraud the system. Durable medical supplies and equipment fraud Medicare and Medicaid. Medicare and Medicaid transportation frauds the system. My God, the friggin Mafia frauds Medicare.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/07/crime...
If the federal government, who currently cannot run Medicare and Medicaid, have failed to provide security for our tax money from fraud so far, how could you possibly believe that it cannot get worse????

I was speaking about the coverage, not the cost. That will always continue to increase disproportunatly to coverage.

METALMAN9 wrote:

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You are Vile.

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And fake. That post is worthless and only posted to provoke a response.

Ed Teach wrote:

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I was speaking about the coverage, not the cost. That will always continue to increase disproportunatly to coverage.

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I still disagree. The coverage and quality of medical care under government control will be worse. First, the current government programs of Medicare, Medicaid, and Tricare do not allow their members (recipients) to have whatever they want, whenever they want it. Medicare denies more healthcare claims for treatment, testing, surgery, etc than any commercial insurance carrier right now. And these programs consistently challenge our physicians for treatment options now.

Second, I do agree that the physicians and healthcare professionals we have today will still work under a government system for the time being. But what about down the road? What brilliant, highly motivated, intellectually standout student today will want to enter medicine tomorrow to be a "de facto" government employee? Who wants to have their salary pre-determined and their workplace run by government "office" workers somewhere in an office building? The quality of medicine is bound to decline year by year, decade by decade.

So, you think it can't be worse. I, working in healthcare for 20+ years, respectfully disagree.

skeptic wrote:

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Yes. All business expenses are shown in the Stockholder’s Reports and summarized in the 10Ks. False reporting is punishable by jail terms. Better not give different data to the IRS!
In fact there almost certainly have been excessively high salaries paid to some in those companies. Waxman has requested data on all who made over half a million, in any of the last eight years if I recall correctly, from nearly all those 14 companies.
Put that in perspective. It would take over a century for those profits to equal the $1 trillion plus the CBO says the House bill will cost. Those profits are 3.13% of revenues…quite a bit less than the average for large companies. Even Wal-Mart made 3.3% and the largest pharmaceutical company, Johnson & Johnson made 20.3%!

Actually Financial Statements are prepared in accordance with GAAP, while tax returns are prepared based on tax law, so the data can be different. Such as timing and permanent differences expenses deductible for book purposes but not tax. And depreciation and accrual can be different resulting in timing differences, etc. As for profit one year my be more profitiable then the next. Was there deferred comepnesation that was paid out to a CEO in that year, etc. Generally, you have to do a 3-5 year comparision to get the actual financial story. Not to mention 3.3% profif for Wal-mart might be a larger amount of money then the 20% J&J had.

Nothing is as simple as it first appears.

However, you are correct with regards to the profit still being less than what the government wants to spend.

METALMAN9,

So its only Fox News that decieves people? So does all the corporate media.

As for the Republicans, they are the same as the Democrats, at least to me. They both want bigger government, whether it be in social areas, or economic areas.

The Democrats mislead us just as much as the Republicans do. Look at the desperate scare tactics or personal attacks they use?

As for me, I don't really give a damn about what Clinton did in his personal life or whatever.

I'm upset with Obama because his policies are continuing the MASSIVE government, war, spending, debt, inflation etc.

So yes, I am upset with him.

Observer- wrote:

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I still disagree. The coverage and quality of medical care under government control will be worse. First, the current government programs of Medicare, Medicaid, and Tricare do not allow their members (recipients) to have whatever they want, whenever they want it. Medicare denies more healthcare claims for treatment, testing, surgery, etc than any commercial insurance carrier right now. And these programs consistently challenge our physicians for treatment options now.
Second, I do agree that the physicians and healthcare professionals we have today will still work under a government system for the time being. But what about down the road? What brilliant, highly motivated, intellectually standout student today will want to enter medicine tomorrow to be a "de facto" government employee? Who wants to have their salary pre-determined and their workplace run by government "office" workers somewhere in an office building? The quality of medicine is bound to decline year by year, decade by decade.
So, you think it can't be worse. I, working in healthcare for 20+ years, respectfully disagree.

Good post.