Do you really think "no guns allowed" signs work?

Duane wrote:

The signs are useless. I am a CCW holder in AZ. If I carry in an establishment that is displaying a "No Firearms Allowed" sign, I am not breaking any laws. If they some how see my concealed weapon, all they can do is ask me to leave. If I then refuse to leave I could be arrested for trespassing. Az passed a law that if a private establishment does not permit firearms, they must store it in a safe place for you while you shop. You should see the looks you get when asking to store your gun. they usually ask if you are carring a concealed weapon, give you a good looking over and then tell you they don't have a place to store it. If they did, I wouldn't give it to then anyways, I would just leave. Have never been denied entrance after telling them I am Carrying.

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Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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[V.H.] I just called Donna Street at the D.P.S. C.C.W. website and her response was; This is not true.
If you are carrying a concealed weapon on posted property, you are at that time in violation of someone elses rights to regulate their personal property, and you are in violation of criminal tresspass laws.
If they ask you to leave they are only providng you a grace and second notice, not giving you first notice. The sign serves that purpose. If you do not respect the desires of someone elses property then question your reasoning why. If they post for political reasons then do not go there but spend your money at the competition. Power games are for the insecure. There has been no law passed to require that posted properties must provide firearms storage and I would like you to provide info as to how you came to that conclusion so we can rectify incorrect disemination. The below information website is for your upgrade. Please use it!
Virgil
e-mail:
ccw@azdps.gov
Supervisor:
Donna J Street
CWPU Address:
Concealed Weapons Permit Unit
P.O. Box 6488
Phoenix, Arizona 85005

GunShowOnTheNet wrote:

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Believe the law he is speaking of is here in Phoenix. It deals specifically with government buildings such as libraries, etc. Am not sure if the law ever passed....

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Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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The law did not pass and that was several years ago they tried to pass that. Any federal bldg. and some posted State buildings are no firearm zones, but no one is required to store a firearm for you including Federal and Those posted State properties. We fought that as it was an expensively redundant system that we wanted any moneies for ranges and shooting programs rather than millions of dollars worth of federal taxpayers money on locker systems when you can just lock it up in your car.
I also called the police chief in our area and he stated that; "if a person walks through a posted-No Firearms sign" at that moment they are in violation and will be arrested for criminal trespass because of the decision to violate property owners requirements. Just don't go there if you require a firearm! Go somewhere else. Whether we think our rights to carry outweigh someone else's rights to own, does not make any difference, it is the law. If we don't like the law change it in the proper manner, but do not violate it. No muninipality can make law that usurps D.P.S. regulations in Arizona concerning CCW.
All info is available on the; Arizona Dept. of Public Safety@CCW.gov website.

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Highlander wrote:

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Aside from all that, it's just a bunch of crap they put the citizens through, and every last bit of it ought be dumped.
Here in Washington, all State government buildings (includes county and local) which prohibit carriage of arms in buildings, MUST provide lockers for safe stowage.
Federal buildings are a different matter.

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Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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I would rather have those millions of dollars for ranges and training for people instead of lockers when we could lock it up in our cars twenty feet away. A person with a firearm with no training is as dangerous as a criminal. I've caught two from those who pretended and is why I train them now. I do have a very personal investment in this.
The most dangerous firearm carrier is those who pretend and criminals. Our purpose is to protect not damage or destroy. Loops are required to keep incompentents from destroying what we have all worked for so hard. Be safe and pert of the solution.

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GunShowOnTheNet wrote:

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"A system of licensing and registration, is the perfect device to deny gun
ownership to the bourgeoisie."
- Vladimir Lenin, "The Beginning of the Revolution in Russia", Selected Works, Vol. I, International Publishers, New York, 1967.
Your apparent lack of knowledge of TRUE American Freedom and Liberty is astounding....

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Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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What is even more astounding is that; In over twenty years of freelance fighting these idiots in government from legislature to federal and spending over $450,000.00 of my own money to make certain these fools did not do our thinking for us; I never once saw you or others assisting in any useful way including making a lousy phone call to your senators and representives! I forced them to let me write law that would require the citizen to think, reason and decide rather than those idiots who pretended to know what is better for others than we did. Where the hell were you? I hear you whining now but are you financially or physically committed or just pretending? The definition of Freedom is in the dictionary as stated; The acceptance of responsibility for the rewards and consequences of one's own choice and actions. Where were you? Selling guns and making profit I'll bet at someone elses effort!
After over twenty-five years of de-programming fools who pretended they knew how to use the language aand self-determination by being apathetic, complacent and whining instead of thinking through and acting upon their decisions with commitment taught me to realize how impotent they were. Where are you in this process? Talk is nothing without action. I hope to see you in legislature this year at your own expense just like us! We will find out your true level of knowledge in freedom.

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Plant Lady wrote:

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Goodness gracious Virgil what was that rant all about?
Deep breath...
You true level of knowledge in freedom. Sounds like a mass media sound bite.
Lots of American's give a rodent's posterior what happens to our freedoms. How dare you imply that when we are too poor to go to Washington to 'fight the good fight' we are not up to your holier than thou standards. Get off you high horse already. You are sounding more like the back end of a donkey than you are a patriot.
<good thing I am feeling mellow this am>

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Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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Holier than thou or righteously pissed off because I had to fight that fight for all of us and I never even got a thank you. He Accused me of not knowing American freedom!!!

Plant Lady wrote:

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The truly righteous usually don't have reason to parade for others to see. They usually are content with the knowledge that they have made a difference and forgive the ignorance of those that do not know that their contribution has made a difference.
As Mother Teresa states so eloquently <no I am not Catholic but I really like some of her writings>
excerpted:
" The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow-do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough-Give the world the best you got anyway.
You see in the final analysis , it is between you and God- It was never between you and them -anyway."

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Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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What is even more astounding is that; In over twenty years of freelance fighting these idiots in government from legislature to federal and spending over $450,000.00 of my own money to make certain these fools did not do our thinking for us; I never once saw you or others assisting in any useful way including making a lousy phone call to your senators and representives! I forced them to let me write law that would require the citizen to think, reason and decide rather than those idiots who pretended to know what is better for others than we did. Where the hell were you? I hear you whining now but are you financially or physically committed or just pretending? The definition of Freedom is in the dictionary as stated; The acceptance of responsibility for the rewards and consequences of one's own choice and actions. Where were you? Selling guns and making profit I'll bet at someone elses effort!
After over twenty-five years of de-programming fools who pretended they knew how to use the language aand self-determination by being apathetic, complacent and whining instead of thinking through and acting upon their decisions with commitment taught me to realize how impotent they were. Where are you in this process? Talk is nothing without action. I hope to see you in legislature this year at your own expense just like us! We will find out your true level of knowledge in freedom.

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Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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I've never needed approval from anyone except my wife a dogs but the entire process wiped us out and we never even recieved a thank you; but theres lots of people who are armchair quarterbacks that complain without doing anything. They then accuse us, they can go to.... unless they paid the price we had to. If he wants to accuse there will be a fight!

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GunShowOnTheNet wrote:

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You don't follow the ABSOLUTE charge of "shall NOT be infringed" either. You are nothing more than an EQUIVOCATOR - JUST LIKE THE NRA. The kind that readily agrees with 'common sense gun controls'. JUST WHAT IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK THE WORDS "SHALL >NOT< BE INFRINGED" MEAN? I >KNOW< EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEAN. And, I CAN PROVIDE THE ORIGIN INTENTIONS OF THE MEN THAT FRAMED THE AMENDMENT IN ORDER TO PROVE IT. You actually think that you are 'special' because you have bargained with USURPING TYRANTS?...

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GunShowOnTheNet wrote:

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You don't follow the ABSOLUTE charge of "shall NOT be infringed" either. You are nothing more than an EQUIVOCATOR - JUST LIKE THE NRA. The kind that readily agrees with 'common sense gun controls'. JUST WHAT IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK THE WORDS "SHALL >NOT< BE INFRINGED" MEAN? I >KNOW< EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEAN. And, I CAN PROVIDE THE ORIGIN INTENTIONS OF THE MEN THAT FRAMED THE AMENDMENT IN ORDER TO PROVE IT. You actually think that you are 'special' because you have bargained with USURPING TYRANTS?...

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GunShowOnTheNet wrote:

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You don't follow the ABSOLUTE charge of "shall NOT be infringed" either. You are nothing more than an EQUIVOCATOR - JUST LIKE THE NRA. The kind that readily agrees with 'common sense gun controls'. JUST WHAT IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK THE WORDS "SHALL >NOT< BE INFRINGED" MEAN? I >KNOW< EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEAN. And, I CAN PROVIDE THE ORIGIN INTENTIONS OF THE MEN THAT FRAMED THE AMENDMENT IN ORDER TO PROVE IT. You actually think that you are 'special' because you have bargained with USURPING TYRANTS?...

Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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This does indicate a serious disassociation from the true American adventure of being a land of laws and American values. Yes I did pay that price you mentioned and much more,{Nothing Left} but since you have attacked OK.
We are a nation of social interaction and if You choose to be a LONE WOLF out there; Hiding out in delusional singularlity then have at it.
I followed the law and if you didn't like it why did you not change it TIMOTHY. I don't think I'm Special but qualifyed to speak in turn and unison with others who do work to make positive change and people like you are the enemy as much as amatures and criminals. Kizinsky; do you live in the woods. A great place to isolate yourself from reality. Never saw you in a fight [on either side]but heard you whine about what others have done, enough.

Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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HEY I forgot; Those convicted of domestic violence should have firearms because they are nice people and they will tell you that during the passive phase. You Idiot!

Virgil Hayes drgnmstr ccw wrote:

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HEY I forgot; Those convicted of domestic violence should have firearms because they are nice people and they will tell you that during the passive phase. You Idiot!

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GunShowOnTheNet wrote:

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WHO IS THE "idiot" NOW, punk? Can make you look like even a BIGGER FOOL if you insist....