Guns: What now?

Plant Lady wrote:

Thanks Ya'll :)

Yeah! HAPPY B-DAY!

feedup wrote:

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The system is overloaded yes, but you will get care no matter what it will no cover you from birth to grave but care is there.
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Social Security is one of the most useful, but the government cannot and will not ever keep its hands out of it. Other plans must be taken into account to ensure retirement.
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OSHA and other agencies police the laws that regulate labor. A lot of these are self regulated.
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How many people do you know that would or can afford a nuclear device? Complete Control will and has become complete control of the pople.

You will NOT get care no matter what. You may get dumped (illegally) onto the street if you are uninsured and, even if you are insured, you may be canceled AFTER you get sick even if you are a fully paid up patient. You can take your company (Healthnet) to court and win ($9 million) but they are hoping you will die or give up under the stress of a lawsuit.
Even if you are a retiree with a guarantee of health coverage from a major corporation, that can also go bust. Try getting individual coverage if you are in that age group.
The US health care system is so broken that even A MAJORITY OF PHYSICIANS ARE FOR NATIONALIZED HEALTH CARE. They are sick of spending up to 1/3rd of their time arguing with insurance companies or having a hack with no medical training telling them what they can provide.
Do you see tons of Canadians flooding to the US in order to be part of our for-profit mess? See the French lining up at the border? For the amount of money we currently spend (going up at twice the rate of inflation) we can have the world's best nationalized health care for everyone.
No system is perfect but our system is really, really poor and it is getting worse by the day. Major corporations (aren't you a capitalist?) like Starbucks see health care as a problem that can sink their companies. Why in the world do you think that the US taxpayer supporting the profits of Walmart, the largest retailer in the world, is a good move? Why should we blithely fund their health care costs? Aren't capitalists supposed to sink or swim without government support?
Are you really a capitalist? If so, subsidizing Walmart, subsidizing drug costs around the world should make you FOOT-STOMPING FURIOUS.
Social Security is a self-funding, mandatory insurance program. The US now has a negative savings rate which means that we are not even paying for our CURRENT COSTS much less saving for the future. It is abundantly clear that in the real world too many of us cannot save (for whatever reason including low wages) for the future. Few people can manage that long on just Social Security so, yes, 401K plans, IRAs, etc. are useful as well.
Most useful, of course, is to have a living wage which is absent in many parts of the USA.
So we agree that we are for government regulation preventing child labor and for safety rules? I'm sure the IRS thinks that you self-regulate your income taxes as well and would gladly pay if you weren't concerned about an audit.
It is fairly easy to build a bomb but somewhat more difficult to get the fissionable materials. People can still build weaponry such as fertilizer and dirty bombs. Do you think these should NOT be regulated? Do you think people should be able to build and keep pipe bombs and the like? Does this make any sense to you?
The right wing propaganda machine apparently has complete control of many people on this and similar threads. It doesn't take a gun to control you when some cheeky slogans and sound bites will do the trick.
You are governed by your DNA, your culture, your environment, your parents, your food, etc. You have much less FREE WILL than you think you do. I am all for individual freedom which is why I don't care if you have a basement full of guns.

Oregon is Disgusting wrote:

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When did I say that I wanted this? You lack clarity of understanding because you think with a head full of right wing cement.
Don't continue to throw cut and pasted propaganda at me, show me that you understand what you are talking about.
What are you complaining about SPECIFICALLY. Do you want to eliminate the following and, if so, why and what will take their place and how:
Social Security
Medicare/Medicaid/VA
Agencies including, but not limited to, EPA, FDA, SEC, FCC, NIH, NRC, NTSA, etc.
Interstate Highways, State Highways, Roads, Bridges, Sidewalks
Police, Fire, Emergency Response
National, State, Local Parks
Public Schools
Etc.
What SPECIFICALLY do you object to. In other words, if they were FREE or if someone else paid for them so they were FREE for you would you welcome them?
Do you think you should be forced to fly in an airplane that requires you to remove your shoes before you board? Do you think it abridges your freedom if you cannot say things like 'fire' in a crowded theater?
You have this childlike (not cute, just silly) image of society as an authoritarian parent with yourself as the put upon teenager who is just dying to drink, drive and play with guns. Who do you think the government consists of if it does not consist of you?

He's saying you're a socialist/fascist/liberal swine, how hard is that? Guess what? WE STILL HAVE OUR GUNS! When are YOU going to come and get'em? Quit whining and ante-up! You want that demo agenda to stand a chance? Tell the bastards to GET OFF THE SECOND AMENDMENT! How's that for original? Oh! BTW, WE STILL HAVE OUR GUNS! Now, cry baby! CRY!

Oregon is Disgusting wrote:

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No cut and paste just reading and living the life. Your rants are the highest form of jealously. You want the money of hard working people to subsidize you and your life. You do not want to work for what you get. No the health care is substandard to many people in the government controlled system unless you have money. Like I stated I pay over 60% into taxes and are almost nothing in return other than punished for my hard work. You are a moron if you want this country to carry you through life. You are blind to the government controls you ask for. You are blind to elitist attitude of the man you want in office. Have you even looked at his voting record? No you can argue all you want but I will never understand the lazy attitude you and the others have. The health care of this country will go down. The insurance companies will start dropping people’s coverage due to the restrictive measures placed by the government. The health care tax will restrict the care. The devaluation of individual life will restrict the care they receive. No, you are unable to see logic or the truth behind all that you want. You are an authoritarian nationalist with political ideologies that verge on communism.

Now how about you get back to the topic of this forum.

feedup wrote:

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Obamaination term.
Definition:
Anything greatly disliked or abhorred such as the bill of rights.
Intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded the constitution with a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, etc.: disallowing the public freedom is an Obamaination
This is the new United Nations order presented by the Obamaination for President.
Do you want?
Do You want Government controlled health care.
Do You want Government funded retirement.
Do You want Government laws regulating personnel safety.
Do You want Government control weapons laws.
Do You want income-based taxes.
Do You want inheritance taxes.
Do You want Government-controlled wages.
Do You want property taxes.
Do You want Government heavy with laws.
Do You think laws deter crime.
Do You want housing welfare.
Do You want income welfare.
Do You want think death tax.
Do You want capital gains tax.
Do You what a death tax.
Do You want windfall tax.
Do You think the government should be responsible for your personal safety.
Do You want Federal withholding
Do You want State withholding
Do You want Social Security withholding
Do You want Medicare withholding
Do You want Sales Tax
Do You want Use Tax
Do You want various telecom taxes
Do You want Health Insurance taxes
In addition, the list could go on.
Do You want a socialist utopia ..
Do You want government to take care of you in all aspects of your life even if it means giving up your freedoms.
The man that wants to tax us back to the seventeen hundreds, the man that wants to de-rate our health care system, the man that has no concept of a capitalist society.
His leadership will create more problems than what it will solve.
Obama wants to tax large and small business and out of existence.
Obama wants to stop pharmaceutical research by eliminating drug companies.
Obama wants to tax the drug companies into submission and paralyze their profits.
Obama wants government run schools to indoctrinate and brainwash children by misleading them about history and the U.S. constitution.
Obama wants no progress and will block all measures to become energy sufficient and not rely on other countries.
Obama wants the EPA (eliminate progress all together).
Obama wants to hamper the food supply.
Obama wants control of your health and tell you when you can get help.
Obama wants full control over you and your life.
Obama wants the U.S. to be run by the U.N.
This is a capitalist society and a republic not a socialist society. To become a socialist society would diminish all that our ancestors have fought and died for.
What freedoms are you willing to give up in the hope of security?

Capitalism does not offer security. It encourages a dog eat dog mentality. People become 'oponents''clients''winners' but most importantly 'losers'(good for the drugs companies I suppose). Money is the driving force not the will to do good but to exploit any given situation for the 'profit' of the few. Money is not even an indication of hard work necessarily as you only have to break into a 'rich' person's house, probably kill them with their own gun and hey presto you're 'rich' and everyone adores your 'wealth',not you but what you possess. Obama really can't make to much of a difference on his own even if he is elected, people are moving politically all the time for a fairer world, a world which 'America' is only part of and does not control.

Goodbye Magazine wrote:

<quoted text> Capitalism does not offer security. It encourages a dog eat dog mentality. People become 'oponents''clients''winners' but most importantly 'losers'(good for the drugs companies I suppose). Money is the driving force not the will to do good but to exploit any given situation for the 'profit' of the few. Money is not even an indication of hard work necessarily as you only have to break into a 'rich' person's house, probably kill them with their own gun and hey presto you're 'rich' and everyone adores your 'wealth',not you but what you possess. Obama really can't make to much of a difference on his own even if he is elected, people are moving politically all the time for a fairer world, a world which 'America' is only part of and does not control.

Who said anything about security? I talk of freedom.

feedup wrote:

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Who said anything about security? I talk of freedom.

Capitalism does not equal 'freedom' everything has a 'price'in capitalism. Never heard of he great capitalist give-away.

Plant Lady wrote:

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What can I say...it's my B-day ;)

Happy Birthday, Plant Lady - you go girl...... keep that poltroon in his/her/its place....

Goodbye Magazine wrote:

<quoted text> Capitalism does not equal 'freedom' everything has a 'price'in capitalism. Never heard of he great capitalist give-away.

You're exactly right! Only the "RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS" can equal freedom!

Plant Lady wrote:

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Please move to China you will 'feel' much more comfortable there. Or maybe a bit closer in Canada. I wouldn't really recommend the UK gas is at $15 dollars a gallon.
And back to Canada...a small condo goes for around 450k, most kids have to live with their parents well into their 30's because they can't afford a home. My newborn Canadian grandson had a heart abnormality that required immediate attention. It took 3.5 weeks for an appointment with a heart specialist.
You think we are in a quagmire now with our hospitals running in the red with illegal alien health care? Get a clue that it will get worse with socialized health care.
The back of the UK is almost broken with the influx of of immigrants using their socialized health care. When one man has 7 wives with 5 children each..imagine how taxing that is to the gov't.
If you want that, then please do move.

But Plant Lady: The disguting oregonian swears that socialized health care is "what works" right now. He/she/it will be SOOOOOOOO disappointed when the truth sinks in....

Goodbye Magazine wrote:

<quoted text> Capitalism does not equal 'freedom' everything has a 'price'in capitalism. Never heard of he great capitalist give-away.

I've never heard of the great socialist giveaway either. Of course I have heard of the great socialist takeaway - as in take away all your freedom, take away all your dignity, take away all your rights.....

Goodbye Magazine wrote:

<quoted text> Capitalism does not equal 'freedom' everything has a 'price'in capitalism. Never heard of he great capitalist give-away.

Keep your mouth closed. They know more about capitalism than you know. You do nothing but shine the beacon of ignorance upon yourself and the shadow is longer than your ego is large.

Goodbye Magazine wrote:

<quoted text> Capitalism does not offer security. It encourages a dog eat dog mentality. People become 'oponents''clients''winners' but most importantly 'losers'(good for the drugs companies I suppose). Money is the driving force not the will to do good but to exploit any given situation for the 'profit' of the few. Money is not even an indication of hard work necessarily as you only have to break into a 'rich' person's house, probably kill them with their own gun and hey presto you're 'rich' and everyone adores your 'wealth',not you but what you possess. Obama really can't make to much of a difference on his own even if he is elected, people are moving politically all the time for a fairer world, a world which 'America' is only part of and does not control.

We are paying in spades to allow the non-producers to partake in that which the workers create. You and your lazy brethren wouldn't have it any other way.

Nessa wrote:

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We are paying in spades to allow the non-producers to partake in that which the workers create. You and your lazy brethren wouldn't have it any other way.

Nessa: you sound like a happen' chick! you for real?

Goodbye Magazine wrote:

<quoted text> Capitalism does not equal 'freedom' everything has a 'price'in capitalism. Never heard of he great capitalist give-away.

Yes I have and it happens every day.

The capitalist that you scorn has helped many people. Many of nations helped due to the generosity of this country.

Many a people of my country helped by individuals that give help without the government forcing it upon them. You know nothing of me or the many good people that do good work out of their heart and not by the government.

To take and take leaves the ones that try to help with less and less to give in the way of help. The government will take 50% of any monies out of the so-called tax for administration fees. That is less money that would do good.

You have know idea what I give and do to help others.

Nessa wrote:

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We are paying in spades to allow the non-producers to partake in that which the workers create. You and your lazy brethren wouldn't have it any other way.

Nessa My hat is off for you. Very well spoken. I respect the UK and its contributions to the world.
Thank you.

feedup wrote:

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No cut and paste just reading and living the life. Your rants are the highest form of jealously. You want the money of hard working people to subsidize you and your life. You do not want to work for what you get. No the health care is substandard to many people in the government controlled system unless you have money. Like I stated I pay over 60% into taxes and are almost nothing in return other than punished for my hard work. You are a moron if you want this country to carry you through life. You are blind to the government controls you ask for. You are blind to elitist attitude of the man you want in office. Have you even looked at his voting record? No you can argue all you want but I will never understand the lazy attitude you and the others have. The health care of this country will go down. The insurance companies will start dropping people’s coverage due to the restrictive measures placed by the government. The health care tax will restrict the care. The devaluation of individual life will restrict the care they receive. No, you are unable to see logic or the truth behind all that you want. You are an authoritarian nationalist with political ideologies that verge on communism.
Now how about you get back to the topic of this forum.

You have gone off the deep end into la-la land. You are welcome to go live elsewhere, outside of society if you so detest paying taxes for the myriad of services you receive. You obviously know very little about reality as you cannot answer the questions that I posted back to you.

You are obviously frightened of true debate.

I answered your questions in detail and you reply with more right wing, childish propaganda points. YOU ARE WRONG. You receive much from society including the government developed internet on which you spew right wing nonsense.

A word of advice, you should stop using words which you obviously do not understand. Using cut and paste to make it appear as if you understand words makes it clear that you are simply under educated.

You can get a government subsidized education at any age. Since you claim to give so much to the government, you should make use of that.

Nessa wrote:

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We are paying in spades to allow the non-producers to partake in that which the workers create. You and your lazy brethren wouldn't have it any other way.

Nessa - well said!

Plant Lady wrote:

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What can I say...it's my B-day ;)

PL:

Hippity-Happity Birthday!!!

b3
Out

Oregon is Disgusting wrote:

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You have gone off the deep end into la-la land. You are welcome to go live elsewhere, outside of society if you so detest paying taxes for the myriad of services you receive. You obviously know very little about reality as you cannot answer the questions that I posted back to you.
You are obviously frightened of true debate.
I answered your questions in detail and you reply with more right wing, childish propaganda points. YOU ARE WRONG. You receive much from society including the government developed internet on which you spew right wing nonsense.
A word of advice, you should stop using words which you obviously do not understand. Using cut and paste to make it appear as if you understand words makes it clear that you are simply under educated.
You can get a government subsidized education at any age. Since you claim to give so much to the government, you should make use of that.

Myriad of services? You socialist poltroon! When Barack Obama GIVES away $845 Billion (with a "B" there idiot) of our tax money to the UN, you mind telling me what "services" we will be getting for that?

The only services I see are the ones where the corrupt rulers of other countries take the money to make more lavish palaces for themselves while their people continue to starve. And THAT is Obama's "cure for poverty." He is as corrupt as the ruthless tyrants in those countries. Scum paying off scum. How fitting!