Is buying a gun a suicidal act?

In my last:
[9] What does RAT poison —or— a tube of tooth paste with sodium fluoride cost?

YOU'D BE SURPRISED AT HOW LITTLE!!!!

Tory II wrote:

People should commit suicide with guns, not with tall buildings, questionable pills, hit and miss artery slicing, cars or jumping in front of trains.
Well, maybe I'm wrong. A cheapo handgun costs about $350. Jumping in front of Metra is free. Jumping in front of Metra causes traffic delays and requires clean-ups and the cost for clean-up. Shooting your head off or apart keeps the suicide act more private and really is less messy.
We really should encourage those who don't want their lives to use a gun. Govt should lend people guns and spare society the delays and cleanups. So if you are suicidal, buying a gun could be suicidal and beneficial. See how functional guns can be.

hmm..I just bought a pk clone for $99. You need to shop around :)

I'm not concerned about the stupidity of committing suicide - that's what antigun people want, because it helps them justify gun control. And it doesn't seem to matter how well it's proven that guns don't increase suicide.

And if most antigun people don't seem to care how many people get bullied, robbed, raped or murdered then why would it matter to them how many commit suicide with a gun ? The answer is it only matters to them when it helps them justify gun controls. And that's one reason why suicidal acts don't matter to me.

The fact is, what anti-gunners REALLY want is a police state.

Back when Illinois passed a law forbidding those convicted of domestic violence from possessing a handgun, the Chicago police union was outraged. Their representative went on NPR. He claimed that it is wrong to take away guns from police because it was their "tool of the trade". Funny how the host did not ask him why the exception should not apply to Sammy "The Bull" Gravano. Guns were HIS tool of the trade.

Anti-gunners do not want police to be held to ANY standard. Ten years ago, Ed Hooks posted on talk.politics.guns that if a gun is stolen from a dwelling and used in a crime, the owner should go to jail.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.e... c014d19774dc0a0?dmode=source

"My suggestion is that gun OWNERS be held criminally liable for what
happens to their weapons."

He was asked if police officers who lose their weapons should be prosecuted. Not surprisingly, he wrote, "No."

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.e... dfc9d486552dda4?dmode=source

To quote a reply to his post.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.e... 75af3e7314a4b83?dmode=source

"Oh ok, I see. Another guy advocating a two tier cast system. If
somebody STEALS my guns from a LOCKED DWELLING, I should be jailed,
but if a cop loses HIS gun, nothing should happen to him.

That's pretty much the way those like you always formulate it."

Undeniable proof that anti-gunners are totalitarian sympathizers.

Michael Ejercito wrote:

The fact is, what anti-gunners REALLY want is a police state.
Back when Illinois passed a law forbidding those convicted of domestic violence from possessing a handgun, the Chicago police union was outraged....

Hmmmm, wonder why? Don't suppose that THIS has anything to do with it do you?-

"Two studies have found that at least 40% of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10% of families in the general population. A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24%, indicating that domestic violence is 2-4 times more common among police families than American families in general."

- "Police Family Violence Fact Sheet", National Center for Women and Policing
http://www.womenandpolicing.org/violenceFS.as...

GunShowOnTheNet wrote:

<quoted text>
Hmmmm, wonder why? Don't suppose that THIS has anything to do with it do you?-
"Two studies have found that at least 40% of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10% of families in the general population. A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24%, indicating that domestic violence is 2-4 times more common among police families than American families in general."
- "Police Family Violence Fact Sheet", National Center for Women and Policing
http://www.womenandpolicing.org/violenceFS.as...

And yet the police want a free pass to carry handguns after being convicted of domestic violence, while their VICTIMS are prohibited from carrying handguns.

Disband the Chicago PD; they are a waste of resources.

Michael Ejercito wrote:

<quoted text>
And yet the police want a free pass to carry handguns after being convicted of domestic violence, while their VICTIMS are prohibited from carrying handguns.
Disband the Chicago PD; they are a waste of resources.

Agreed. We The [ARMED] People do a much better job at law enforcement than our hired [supposed] servants do anyways.

GunShowOnTheNet wrote:

<quoted text>
Agreed. We The [ARMED] People do a much better job at law enforcement than our hired [supposed] servants do anyways.

The union spokeman for Chicago police officers stated that police officers convicted of domestic violence should not be disarmed because guns are their tool of the trade. I wonder if this means that Sammy "the Bull" Gravano should not be disarmed, since guns were HIS tool of the trade.

Michael Ejercito wrote:

<quoted text>
The union spokeman for Chicago police officers stated that police officers convicted of domestic violence should not be disarmed because guns are their tool of the trade. I wonder if this means that Sammy "the Bull" Gravano should not be disarmed, since guns were HIS tool of the trade.

Brilliant observation Michael.

Steve Chapman's column "Is buying a gun a suicidal act?" (July 13) perpetuates misinformation regarding gun ownership and the risk of violence by ignoring the available data. Of the many published case-control studies that have examined gun ownership and risk of violence, the overwhleming majority have found that a gun in the home is a risk factor for homicide and suicide.
Even the 2004 National Academy of Sciences report (Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review) which Chapman interprets as "noting that the alleged association is small and may be illusory" reported that the probability of suicide among gun owners (15 per 100,000 persons per year) was more than twice that of nongun owners (6.67 per persons per year). The difference - 8.33 per 100,000 persons per year - is the number of suicides that might be prevented by restricting access to guns. This might sound small but extrapolated to the U.S population would amount to 24,000 deaths per year - not so small after all.
Chapman also claims that people who use guns are "generally hellbent on ending their lives" so deprived of a gun they will "no doubt find another reliable method". This suggests an ignorance of suicidal behavior and modern treatment of depression. The "success" rate for suicide by gun is over 90% while jumping off buildings is only 34% and drug overdose - only 2%. Many of those "unsuccessful" individuals will receive psychiatric treatment and recover from the depressive illness that drove them to attempt suicide.
People making decisions about personal safety need all the facts. You may not like it, but a gun in your home increases the risk of suicide for you and your family.

John:

You might want to check your numbers, because they don't add up.

There are on average 32,000 suicides in the US per year. In order to be twice as likely among gun owners, to arrive at the figure you have to assume that the number of attempted suicides among gun owners are EQUAL to the number of non-gun owning suicide attempts.

Since it has already been established that only about 30% of the households in the country own a firearm (Gallup, 2006)...meaning that in order for the numbers to work out the way you state, there should be somewhere around 50,000 suicides per year.

In other words, 70% of households DON'T have guns...and only 30% do. The total number of suicides should be much larger in order for your numbers posted here to work.

John Flaherty wrote:

People making decisions about personal safety need all the facts. You may not like it, but a gun in your home increases the risk of suicide for you and your family.

No, and >YOU< are most incorrect in your assertion.

Your remark is a totally illogical statement, lacking both factuality and correlation to reality.

The whole idea behind its premise is that merely being in possession of an object is somehow directly related to mental illness, a connection you have NOT in the least proven.

Further, it violates the scientific method, and the principle of: Correlation does not equal causation.

At the end of the day, all >YOU< are left with is supposition, inference, and empty prognostication.

Come on back when you have something truly supported by facts instead of snake oil.

John Flaherty wrote:

People making decisions about personal safety need all the facts. You may not like it, but a gun in your home increases the risk of suicide for you and your family.

So after I purchased my gun, we all became more suicidal than before ? It sounds like another excuse for a person to become a hoplophobe.

Wouldn't you also claim that a person would avoid acquiring a gun because they're afraid something would go wrong (suicide)?

Darn, I've got a gun in my home so NOW I CAN commit suicide (successfully.)

The truth is in areas where guns get banned, the suicide rate remains unaffected by the gun ban because people choose other methods to commit suicide. The desire or reasons to commit suicide have little to do with gun purchases.

Darn, I've got some cyanide pills in my medicine cabinet so now I can commit suicide.

It is other factors, much more important than the existence of guns that determine suicide rates. If a person wants to commmit suicide they will do it regardless if a gun is present.

And after a failed attempt, therapy is not always a cure - those people do try again.

Read John Lott 'The Bias Against Guns' for the statistics on guns and suicides.

Tory II wrote:

<quoted text>
So after I purchased my gun, we all became more suicidal than before ? It sounds like another excuse for a person to become a hoplophobe.
Wouldn't you also claim that a person would avoid acquiring a gun because they're afraid something would go wrong (suicide)?
Darn, I've got a gun in my home so NOW I CAN commit suicide (successfully.)
The truth is in areas where guns get banned, the suicide rate remains unaffected by the gun ban because people choose other methods to commit suicide. The desire or reasons to commit suicide have little to do with gun purchases.
Darn, I've got some cyanide pills in my medicine cabinet so now I can commit suicide.
It is other factors, much more important than the existence of guns that determine suicide rates. If a person wants to commmit suicide they will do it regardless if a gun is present.
And after a failed attempt, therapy is not always a cure - those people do try again.
Read John Lott 'The Bias Against Guns' for the statistics on guns and suicides.

Take note:

My gun did not make any untoward negative comments on the veracity of my living another day when I gave it my morning check before leaving home.

I will keep a close in on it though and report back to you when it does speak to me and make any comments on why I should live another day.

John Flaherty wrote:

Of the many published case-control studies that have examined gun ownership and risk of violence, the overwhleming majority have found that a gun in the home is a risk factor for homicide and suicide.

Sorry John. The "overwhelming majority" of these studies have been done by anti-gun advocates w/ an agenda.

http://daysofourtrailers.blogspot.com/

Plant Lady wrote:

<quoted text>
Take note:
My gun did not make any untoward negative comments on the veracity of my living another day when I gave it my morning check before leaving home.
I will keep a close in on it though and report back to you when it does speak to me and make any comments on why I should live another day.

Let me know when you become fearful of it. When that happens, you can throw it out the window. A gun phobe would not allow a gun to live under the same roof with them.

Maybe you should re-read that report on deaths by natural gas. It actually states that suicides dramatically decreased. It's a pretty crucial point actually.

Plant Lady wrote:

<quoted text>
Take note:
My gun did not make any untoward negative comments on the veracity of my living another day when I gave it my morning check before leaving home.
I will keep a close in on it though and report back to you when it does speak to me and make any comments on why I should live another day.

Are you implying that your gun talks to you?

powdered wig wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you implying that your gun talks to you?

You just ain't quite right are ya sugarbritches?

Plant Lady wrote:

<quoted text>
You just ain't quite right are ya sugarbritches?

CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!(crowd roaring with laughter!). PERFECT!