It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103340 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Marauder

Valdez, AK

#76133 Sep 6, 2012
MalbarCACA Gun Owners wrote:
These people are mentally sick, ignorant, delusional, pathetic and cowards.
I agree...all those people that think it's the guns are just wacko.
Marauder

Valdez, AK

#76134 Sep 6, 2012
truth wrote:
why don't you find my killers who tochering me and my kids for 25 years..is my killers good wrote document ..mental state..is my killers practicing over my son 22 years my husband my family ..where is that evil killers..did somebody going give certificate to them..or what..evil people.
Yup, looks like you're dead all right, brain dead.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#76136 Sep 7, 2012
Kat wrote:
Clearly you were if you don't comprehend sarcasm.
The argument guns is just the tool of a killer is laughable. Guns make it very easy to kill. Too easy. By your flawed logic, why can't everyone have a bomb? Only for protection, of course.
You can not see the conflict in your statements?
Seriously?

"The argument guns is just the tool of a killer is laughable. Guns make it very easy to kill."

Really? You see no conflict in the above^ two sentences?

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76137 Sep 7, 2012
Kat wrote:
<quoted text>
You lost me here. But I agree, you all need more guns to fire back at the killers. Everyone should be armed to protect themselves! There would be no more death.
Sigh.
Well, if you are sighing because the thugs are getting killed, then screw you.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76138 Sep 7, 2012
Kat wrote:
Clearly you were if you don't comprehend sarcasm.
The argument guns is just the tool of a killer is laughable. Guns make it very easy to kill. Too easy. By your flawed logic, why can't everyone have a bomb? Only for protection, of course.
Maybe by your flawed feelings.

Bombs tend to kill the user.

Guns tend to kill the people they are aimed at.

Try not to aim one at yourself or a loved one.

I will continue to aim mine at predators.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76139 Sep 7, 2012
blah wrote:
Can't believe you clowns are still arguing over this.
The OP was correct. It's the Guns, Stupid.
Well, smacking stupid little rodents like you is almost as fun as helping ignorant fools lose their stupidity over guns,

I must say I do like how you puncuate your stupidity with such certainty.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76140 Sep 7, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Yes, I'm back again:)
I never really left though...but whatever:)
2. I don't know any parents that have been convicted of brutally killing their kids, and are NOW walking the streets. What are you talking about, and what point are you trying to make here?
3. If you don't know the difference between WATER (which humans needs to LIVE, and for physical hygiene) as opposed to GUNS, then you're a lost cause:)
We NEED water for every day living, we do NOT need guns for every day living...just ask Japan!
4. Mostly, I never wanted a ban on guns. I am for REGULATING GUN!
Just like it says in the 2nd amendment!
"Well regulated".
Just like POOLS are regulated to prevent injury and drowning (water) I would want the same for guns:)
5. Who are you referring to when you say "don't even mention the slap on the wrist"?
HUH?
This makes no sense.
I know a LOT of people that are against guns, and HATE Casey Anthony, and have spoken out endlessly against her freedom!
Try to pay attention better:)
6. I never said guns were evil. The evil lies in the person USING the gun:) The gun just makes it so much easier to express that evil, and KILL many people in mere seconds.
7. I do place the blame on the killers....what are you talking about? You make no sense.
8. Are you saying you are FOR guns rights...but AGAINST human and civil rights?
How can you feel that someone has the right to a GUN, but does NOT have the right to a TRIAL, or even charges properly?
Drawn and quartered within hours? What if the person was innocent, and the child lied, then regretted it...his parent would already be DEAD!
DUH!
Back to the real world and common sense please:)
That's why WE and almost every developed country has a Judicial system!
9. How would it "deter unwanted pregnancy"?
Can you be specific?
10. How would it END the abortion debate?
Can you be specific?
11. How would it drops aids?
can you be specific?
Is this your OPINION or are you basing this on facts?
I bet it's a moot opinion.
Idiot.

Name one regulation that actually keeps guns out of the hands of criminals?

Explain why you feel the mere exercise of a right should be regualted?

Explaine the difference between exercising a right and misbehaving?

You have learned to use google, try to educate yourself with it.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76141 Sep 7, 2012
Kat wrote:
Clearly you were if you don't comprehend sarcasm.
The argument guns is just the tool of a killer is laughable. Guns make it very easy to kill. Too easy. By your flawed logic, why can't everyone have a bomb? Only for protection, of course.
Jane you ignorant slut,

If guns make it so easy to kill,

then explain how adding 60 million guns to US public ownership in the past ten years has only seen a drop in the number of gun deaths.

You thundering moron.

Just one little explanation to justify your ignorance pretending to be an opinion.

How about why does the internet allows so many dumbshits to pollute the WWW with their ignorance..

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#76142 Sep 7, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if you are sighing because the thugs are getting killed, then screw you.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, all those "thugs" watching Batman with their kids?

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#76143 Sep 7, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Idiot.
I guess that's better than the "Jane" crap you plagiarized:)
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Name one regulation that actually keeps guns out of the hands of criminals?
The Brady Law:)
We have already went over, and posted the numbers that the Feds deny millions of criminals guns, with a less than .1% error rate!

Will that stop ALL criminals...NO!
Will that stop SOME criminals...yes!

How is that a bad thing?
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Explain why you feel the mere exercise of a right should be regulated?
The same reason the cops felt the guy in front of the Empire State building was not exercising his right when he pulled the gun...and they killed him.
No right is absolute, and almost everything is regulated.
You see, when TWO rights conflict (example: the right to free speech conflicts with my right to not be libeled, or defamed, or slandered...that's why there are laws against those things and are not protected under free speech) there has to be a common ground, and that is REGULATION:)
I personally feel it should be regulated, because I have a right to not be SHOT by a convicted felon with a legally purchased gun!
Get it yet?
Why should your right to a gun override my right to not be shot?

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#76144 Sep 7, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
Explaine the difference between exercising a right and misbehaving?
Exercising your right would be hunting, using it for REAL self defense, or target shooting properly.

"Misbehaving" would be firing it in PUBLIC to celebrate (like people do on New Years eve and 4th of July).
Misbehaving would be keeping it loaded and where a CHILD could easily have an accident.

...is that enough, or do you need more examples?
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
You have learned to use google, try to educate yourself with it.
Can you be specific?

How does one simply "educate" themselves with google?

Google is merely a SEARCH ENGINE!
...how can I educate myself with it, if you give me NOTHING to be educated on?

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76145 Sep 7, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, all those "thugs" watching Batman with their kids?
As usual, you confuse bad guys with good guys.

Your kids must be so confused.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76146 Sep 7, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>Exercising your right would be hunting, using it for REAL self defense, or target shooting properly.
"Misbehaving" would be firing it in PUBLIC to celebrate (like people do on New Years eve and 4th of July).
Misbehaving would be keeping it loaded and where a CHILD could easily have an accident.
...is that enough, or do you need more examples?
<quoted text>
Can you be specific?
How does one simply "educate" themselves with google?
Google is merely a SEARCH ENGINE!
...how can I educate myself with it, if you give me NOTHING to be educated on?
Thank you for replying.

Hunting is a lawful "use" of a device you have legal right to posses, however, if you shoot someone by accident, you are still punished.

The mere possesion is the right.

If you use that gun, that is behavior.
Some behavior is legal (hunting, target shooting, self defense, etc,)some is illegal, like shooting the gun in public with a good reason.

When we say we don't need that law, you confuse our statement and say we are advocating abolishing laws that address behavior.
We don't.

We say laws that affect the mere exercise of a right to be unconstitutional.

Possesing and wearing a gun is our right. Any regulation of that is unconstitutional. Except where it conflicts with private property.

Now, I would love to see you pull a rabbit out of your ass and show where any of us have advocated abolishing a law that addresses shooting the gun in public,

we also have lovely laws that punish people that do not store their guns AND some child is hurt with one.

We have also never advocated that that particular law be abolished. Just the law that allows someone to be punished for "improper storage", and gets arrested even if no one has been harmed.

You do seem to understand some difference, so once again.

Why do you advocate regulating the mere exercise of a right?
If you can answer that, please give one other example of a right so horribly abused.

Let us assume that you are not "misbehaving" while exercising that right.

Just merely wearing your gun somewhere you have legal recourse to be.

Why should that right be regulated at all?

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76147 Sep 7, 2012
oops, shooting the gun in public with NO good reason.

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#76148 Sep 7, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, you confuse bad guys with good guys.
Your kids must be so confused.
Quit playing semantics again.
It has nothing to do with confusing good guys and bad guys. It is about you deflecting from the point...again.
SO, now you admit "good guys" and innocent people get shot too?

Not just "thugs"...right?

Right?

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76149 Sep 7, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>I guess that's better than the "Jane" crap you plagiarized:)
<quoted text>
The Brady Law:)
We have already went over, and posted the numbers that the Feds deny millions of criminals guns, with a less than .1% error rate!
Will that stop ALL criminals...NO!
Will that stop SOME criminals...yes!
How is that a bad thing?
<quoted text>The same reason the cops felt the guy in front of the Empire State building was not exercising his right when he pulled the gun...and they killed him.
No right is absolute, and almost everything is regulated.
You see, when TWO rights conflict (example: the right to free speech conflicts with my right to not be libeled, or defamed, or slandered...that's why there are laws against those things and are not protected under free speech) there has to be a common ground, and that is REGULATION:)
I personally feel it should be regulated, because I have a right to not be SHOT by a convicted felon with a legally purchased gun!
Get it yet?
Why should your right to a gun override my right to not be shot?
You misunderstand stop with slow down.

The brady law never prevented anyone from getting a gun.

If that had been a republican law, it would have stopped the bad guys from gettign a gun by putting them in jail for breaking the law.

The Brady law works like pedophile control.

If a No pedophile in Parks sign stops a pedophile from abducting a child in that park, folks like you feel their children are safe.

IN the meantime, the pedophile just abducts a kid from somewhere other than the park.

But you still feel good the pedophile did not get his child at the park.

If he did get a child from the park, someone would have noticed (probably) and called the cops.

The brady law never prosecuted any felon that tried to get a gun legally.

That is like posting a speed limit and never giving a ticket for speeding. Some law abiding citizens might obey that law, but none of the speeders will.

Your notion that it stops some criminals is fatally flawed.

Glad you broguth up free speech.

Libel and slander is illegal, and is a MISBEHAVIOR, unless you can prove the slander is accurate.

Merely speaking is not regulated.

The example with the guy in the empire building is ludicrous at best.

If a uniformed cop approaches you , no one has the right to pull a gun on them.

Once again, you mistake misbehavior with a right.

You have the right to say anything you want, until it harms another. And even then it may be justifed.

You have a right to keep and bear arms, until it harms another. And even then, you may be justified.

Yet I can be arrested for merely wearing a gun where I can legally be.

Name one public place you can be arrested at for merely speaking?

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#76150 Sep 7, 2012
Snow Bunny_ wrote:
<quoted text>Quit playing semantics again.
It has nothing to do with confusing good guys and bad guys. It is about you deflecting from the point...again.
SO, now you admit "good guys" and innocent people get shot too?
Not just "thugs"...right?
Right?
No.

I merely say that bad guys will always use something to hurt peopel , and that guns are the best way for the most helpless among us to stop the bad guys.

You focus on a bad guy who harmed, and confuse his use of a gun with and old grandpa using his gun to stop 2 predators.


That is how I see gun use. And your regulation only affects people like him.
It does not even remotely stop thugs like the theater guy. And since he bought all his stuff legally, it was easy to track. If he had bough this stuff illegally, the cops would have a much harder time proving he owned them.
I focus on the good guys who were made helplpes by idiots that mean well.
Dr Freud

Switzerland

#76151 Sep 7, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Jane you ignorant slut,
If guns make it so easy to kill,
then explain how adding 60 million guns to US public ownership in the past ten years has only seen a drop in the number of gun deaths.
You thundering moron.
Just one little explanation to justify your ignorance pretending to be an opinion.
How about why does the internet allows so many dumbshits to pollute the WWW with their ignorance..
"How about why does the internet allows so many dumbshits to pollute the WWW with their ignorance.."

That's a pretty humorous remark!
The Internet is the modern equivalent of the bullhorn, and in the very same way that those expressing largely ignorant remarks with a bullhorn, bring attention to themselves, so too do they invite others to bullhorn them in return.
Sooner than later, it all becomes one giant bullhorn contest with either the truth-tellers drowning out the ignorant and/or deceitful, or the deceitful enjoying all the attention, and remaining obstinately loud to the point of being shrill.
The difference between a live bullhorn contest, and the Internet, is that the live contestants are seen, known, and exposed, whereas the Internet affords almost total anonymity, which invites the invidious to become totally obnoxious.

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#76152 Sep 7, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for replying.
WOW....you're welcome?
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
Hunting is a lawful "use" of a device you have legal right to posses, however, if you shoot someone by accident, you are still punished.
There are HUNTING RIGHTS specifically!
Shouldn't you know this?
The EPA are always attacking hunting rights.
...and if it's an "accident" how are you punished?
Remember Dick Cheney?
He accidentally shot his friend while hunting, it was an accident...no punishment.
So what "punishment" are you referring to for accidents?
My best friends uncle shot his wife Pam in the face accidentally while cleaning his gun (we talked about this before)...he was NEVER charged, but left to raise 3 kids on his own :(
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
The mere possesion is the right.
...and "hunting" is a right as well!
Are you not aware of hunting rights?
heck, by law the kids in MY town don't even have to go to school during deer season!
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
If you use that gun, that is behavior.
It's an ACTION, and without the GUN, that action would not be possible...eh?
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
When we say we don't need that law, you confuse our statement and say we are advocating abolishing laws that address behavior.
We say laws that affect the mere exercise of a right to be unconstitutional.
...but just because you "feel" and "say" something, doesn't make it so:)
What about abolishing laws that prohibit exercising the right to free speech?
Then people can Libel, slander, and defame people all they want!
Yet, what about the OTHER person's right to NOT be defamed?
...and what about MY right to NOT be shot?

When RIGHTS conflict...who wins?
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Possesing and wearing a gun is our right. Any regulation of that is unconstitutional. Except where it conflicts with private property.
RIGHT THERE!
You can't say "except" without some form of REGULATION!
Either it's absolute or it's not?
You have just proven it is NOT!
...and mostly, it's not "unconstitutional" to want guns regulated, when the second amendment itself says WELL REGULATED:)
*(do not reply with WHY you think "well regulated" does not refer to you as a citizen, because you have failed at convincing me in the past, and you will NEVER convince me otherwise, so don't waste your time)
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
show where any of us have advocated abolishing a law that addresses shooting the gun in public,
???
What does that have to do with guns in general, and guns in the hands of violent criminals, and the criminally insane, and how we distinguish who is the bad guys/good guys when purchasing?
Mostly, if you carry your gun in PUBLIC, do you not plan on SHOOTING it in public if need be?
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
.. Just the law that allows someone to be punished for "improper storage", and gets arrested even if no one has been harmed.
What good would the LAW be, if you remove the punishment?
You're speaking outta both sides of your mouth:)
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you advocate regulating the mere exercise of a right?
If you can answer that, please give one other example of a right so horribly abused.
because that's the way it was intended from the very beginning!
WELL REGULATED:)
What do you mean "example of a right so horribly abused"?
Do you mean regulated as well?
Like freedom of speech?
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Just merely wearing your gun somewhere you have legal recourse to be.
Why should that right be regulated at all?
It should be regulated to keep the BAD GUYS from legally getting guns, and legally owning guns, and to protect my right to NOT be shot.
It's really not that hard to understand.

“Imaginez tous les gens”

Since: Sep 09

Sunbury, OH

#76153 Sep 7, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
You misunderstand stop with slow down.
The brady law never prevented anyone from getting a gun.
If that had been a republican law, it would have stopped the bad guys from gettign a gun by putting them in jail for breaking the law.
The Brady law works like pedophile control.
If a No pedophile in Parks sign stops a pedophile from abducting a child in that park, folks like you feel their children are safe.
IN the meantime, the pedophile just abducts a kid from somewhere other than the park.
But you still feel good the pedophile did not get his child at the park.
If he did get a child from the park, someone would have noticed (probably) and called the cops.
The brady law never prosecuted any felon that tried to get a gun legally.
That is like posting a speed limit and never giving a ticket for speeding. Some law abiding citizens might obey that law, but none of the speeders will.
Your notion that it stops some criminals is fatally flawed.
Glad you broguth up free speech.
Libel and slander is illegal, and is a MISBEHAVIOR, unless you can prove the slander is accurate.
Merely speaking is not regulated.
The example with the guy in the empire building is ludicrous at best.
If a uniformed cop approaches you , no one has the right to pull a gun on them.
Once again, you mistake misbehavior with a right.
You have the right to say anything you want, until it harms another. And even then it may be justifed.
You have a right to keep and bear arms, until it harms another. And even then, you may be justified.
Yet I can be arrested for merely wearing a gun where I can legally be.
Name one public place you can be arrested at for merely speaking?
1. They Brady law has prevented MILLIONS of criminals from getting guns!
It is documented, and not up for debate:)
Will that stop ALL bad guys, NO! Will that stop some bad guys, YES!
Quit being intellectually dishonest.

2. Explain what a "republican law" is, and HOW is would stop criminals without infringing on their civil rights...and WHAT republicans have posed this law? Name them?

3. Will the criminals find ways to get guns illegally...yes!
Mostly stolen from LEGAL gun owners ignorance.
Will every single criminal denied a gun get one illegally ...NO!
So if it even stops ONE criminal, and saved ONE life...it's good enough for me:)

4. The Brady Bill isn't about PROSECUTING people for trying to get a gun, it is for PREVENTING those criminals from getting guns.
Also, trying to legally buy a gun and being denied is NOT illegal!
A lot of people aren't even aware they are not allowed to have a gun.
Why would they prosecute them?
Owning the gun is illegal, being denied is not.

5. Are you trying to say that fear of getting a speeding ticket hasn't stopped ANYONE from speeding ever???
WOW!
Now you are either acting unaware, or you are really that unaware!
I'm not sure which is worse:(

6. Are you saying the SLANDER/LIBEL laws do NOT hinder a person from saying ANYTHING they want? Are you saying NOT being able to say whatever you want is NOT infringing free speech?
You make no sense on this one:)

7. FYI...freedom of speech is NOT absolute.(no one said "speech" itself is regulated)...but what/whom you speak >about< IS REGULATED!
You could go to jail, and pay enormous fines if you do so:)

8. http://www.vanderbiltlawreview.org/content/ar...

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