South Haven's Thirsty Perch Grille is a fine catch

Just a way I have always expressed myself on maybe a certain W.O.R.D. or phrase but sorry I didn't mean to freak you out or offend you in any way ...

No, not that. I was just wondering. The other things you write are offensive though. You got that whole hypocrite nasty thing going. Remember the old "Love your neighbor" thing? You might want to give it a roll. Say something nice about the lady on the north side, for instance, and go in peace.

There is a huge difference between discussing an issue intelligently and sharing facts vs talking about someone personally, especially negatively, when they aren't participating in this forum and aren't able to defend themselves. The folks from Yelton aren't celebrities or running for public office - IMO, I guess that would be different. They are just a couple who have worked hard to create their business and have made an improvement in the community.

To pontificate and babble from the pulpit one minute and then spew what could be described as just plain meanness the next only embarrasses the one screaming.

Native in PA, thanks for your balanced and kind remarks. I also enjoyed reading your memories and can validate them personally. I am very grateful for the past in South Haven, and despite the bumps in the road I am hopeful for the future. South Haven is still more beautiful and hip than any other town on the SW shore, just as it has always been. There will always be the beaches to hold things together and bind the generations in shared experience.

Right now I am concerned about the lack of a City Manager, the importance of a rental ordinance, the abuse of power by police to the detriment of the tourist economy and local morale, the fanatics that wish to regain power (developers, realtors, other spoilers) and the Dunckley/Celery Pond possibilities.

Using the Yelton Manor lady for a lightning rod is unfair. Focus needs to be regained and attention
spent on the important issues.

Only looks like someone is running her D.O.W.N. cause you all were lifting her up on a pedistal and I like many others was only giving what I have seen which is totally different from first hand experience not just one isolated experience but time after time crude & rude experience that left a bad taste in the mouths of the ones left standing . Nobody has come here preaching other then sharing my experience which is different then yours and that doesn't set well with some but this is still America and we have the right to state our opinion lol But if Jesus seems to offend you or conviction of your heart then maybe you need to look within cause time draws nigh and better keep your eye on the Eastern Sky cause He is about to step out and come get H.I.S. children and there are way too many living for self that are nothing more then uncircumcised heathens and there is a line been drawn in the sand and up to us to choose this day !!

Um, H.E.A.V.Y., you're too crazy for any more comment here. Signed, an uncircumcised heathen, LOL!

Hey, HF - I live in the east now. Are you talking about me? I mean, when I travel from PA to MI you might be seeing ME coming from the eastern sky ...

What in the world are you babbling about? What does anything we have been talking about have to do with uncircumcised heathens. Would you like to start a thread on penises now? Can you possibly be a part of a discussion that doesn't involve your obsessive need to throw your religious beliefs at others? If I were you I W.O.U.L.D. be concerned about someone coming to get you, too! It might even be the "Po Po!" - with a straight jacket.

I'm curious, HF - I'm only asking because I'm curious and I won't hold it against you if you tell me you would rather not answer. I've wondered what kind of work you do?

Why did I know it would eventually get to this point?

As for a new city manager, it's not unusual for people in this position to work their way up to bigger and bigger communities. I've worked with Kevin a few times and found him very professional, efficient - I'm going to miss him. I'm sure others won't be as complimentary (that's the nature of the job). It's always a challenge to find the right person.

I'm not sure how I feel about the rental ordinance yet. I don't like to see these things as simply a means of generating revenue or a burden for landlords. There needs to be a reason to do it and for it to work, it needs to benefit the landlords, too. For a tourist community to work there needs to be some give and take at this level.

No one wishes to see the rentals go away. The locals wish to see the neighborhoods they live in protected from overnight parties and 2 day overcrowded rentals, no issues with the weekly rentals that bring families and prosperity to town.
The city government wishes to protect itself with safety and code enforcement so that no one gets hurt and no one is liable.

Tuning into SH wrote:

No one wishes to see the rentals go away. The locals wish to see the neighborhoods they live in protected from overnight parties and 2 day overcrowded rentals, no issues with the weekly rentals that bring families and prosperity to town.
The city government wishes to protect itself with safety and code enforcement so that no one gets hurt and no one is liable.

Okay - I get the purpose and certainly some family who lives happens to live next to a rental but who still has to get up in the a.m. to go to work definitely needs some protection.

Do you know what the proposals are? I mean, limits on lease minimums is one way but what if someone has an opportunity for weekend rentals in the fall but then can't take advantage of it. I doubt they would stand up in court anyway. Are they proposing property inspections or licensing landlords? It would generate money but wouldn't take care of the problem.

We've seen similar here in a local college town with essentially the same problems. The college students live in and among the locals and there are the party problems, etc. They tried giving fines to the landlords for party problems and it eventually didn't work because you can't make one person responsible for what another person does. In the end it wound up giving the landlords more ability to get rid of problem tenants.

Seems to me the laws should affect everyone the same - if a tourist/tenant can't throw a party at 2 a.m. then the local neighbor shouldn't either. Would it be better to review the laws, etc., and find ways to tighten things up that don't specifically impact the tenants and landlords but instead protect everyone?

SH does have a noise ordinance and it's pretty detailed and specific. Fire code should cover the overcrowded houses and public health code should cover how many people can sleep in a house based on beds or square footage.

Can you share more? Thanks!

I haven't seen any details, I think it's being worked out. There is a public meeting coming up sometime in mid August. That should be a night of fireworks. I would like to think that it will be fair for everyone. According to the newspaper, it will be fashioned after an ordinance in Grand Haven, which is an hour north of here and a similar community. SH seems to be the only lakefront community that does not have a way to manage rentals. I will try to keep you posted. There should probably be a thread called Rental Ordinance in South Haven instead of burying the chat in here, I suspect we would get a zillion opinions. It's pretty funny how this topic has morphed!

Tuning into SH wrote:

I haven't seen any details, I think it's being worked out. There is a public meeting coming up sometime in mid August. That should be a night of fireworks. I would like to think that it will be fair for everyone. According to the newspaper, it will be fashioned after an ordinance in Grand Haven, which is an hour north of here and a similar community. SH seems to be the only lakefront community that does not have a way to manage rentals. I will try to keep you posted. There should probably be a thread called Rental Ordinance in South Haven instead of burying the chat in here, I suspect we would get a zillion opinions. It's pretty funny how this topic has morphed!

Thanks for the info. I grew up in SH, own property there, get the SH Trib and get the auto emails for the city council meetings - still, you just don't get the same info you get when you talk to a real person! Talk about how the same information can morph!:) I appreciate your time and input.

From fried food and smoky bars to great old SH memories to slapping down a jesus freak to rabid realtors to arresting local business owners to the question of rental ordinances...whew, this topic was exhausting!

As a lifer here, I think the rental ordinance is long overdue. Bring back quiet and safe neighborhoods for our summers, please! I also support the lady at Yelton Manor, who has appeared in front of the city asking for a solution to the problems for decades and now is meanly arrested and plastered in the papers like cheap fodder. The newbie rent-a-cops this city employs each summer get more like gestapo every day. The shame is on the city and the realtors for this one.

Today's paper rages on and on and on. Dave Paull, what a demagogue. His "opinion piece" makes a giant mountain out of a molehill (Vigilante!Film at 11!!) and then he suggests everyone move on to more important topics now that he has his licks in. I truly do not understand why none of the original realtor perps or the city is getting any blame for all this self-righteous ranting, ordinance lawbreaking and lack of enforcement in the first place. Good grief! I have never written on this forum before but I couldn't resist tapping in today. Elaine, you go girl, you have people out here who get it.

Nauseated in SH wrote:

Today's paper rages on and on and on. Dave Paull, what a demagogue. His "opinion piece" makes a giant mountain out of a molehill (Vigilante!Film at 11!!) and then he suggests everyone move on to more important topics now that he has his licks in. I truly do not understand why none of the original realtor perps or the city is getting any blame for all this self-righteous ranting, ordinance lawbreaking and lack of enforcement in the first place. Good grief! I have never written on this forum before but I couldn't resist tapping in today. Elaine, you go girl, you have people out here who get it.

Oh boy ... I won't see the paper until later in the week (I get mine in the mail) but I know Dave Paull and can imagine. He was my teacher a million years ago and thankfully better teachers along the way were able to re-teach me proper English. I'll be looking forward to reading his great words of wisdom. Thanks for the warning. Just try to remember that most everyone in town already knows what an opinionated bonehead he is so whatever he wrote will be taken with a grain of salt. I'm guessing his opinion of the sign issue (guessing that's what this is about) will only bring more fans to Yelton Manor.:) You aren't alone - Dave's been making people nauseous for years!

Oh yes let's demonize everyone that doesn't agree with your point of view but if it makes others feel better to do as you say ** Slap a Jesus Freak or run down Dave Paull ** but I think you guys should take your own advise to the Jesus Freak is say something good !! My Daddy taught me if you haven't got anything gooid to say then don't say anything at all .It is clear that the writing is on the wall about the Yelton Manor a long time coming but I would really have to wonder if you are really in or been there in South Haven to be so blinded ?

Been a while since I tuned into this thread and gotta admit it's a bit out of hand, so Comedian's heads up is well deserved. Native in PA, I get your drift but personal attacks ought to be a no-go just the same.

And though Comedian is correct about that, the very next thing out of his mouth is "the writing on the wall about the Yelton Manor", and calling other posters "blinded", so he immediately contradicts his own advice.

I suggest we keep it civil.

My own take on yesterday's newspaper is that a few
screamers are willing to bury this lady for a misdemeanor charge, and that's just weird. She picks up a few illegal open house signs and all of a sudden she faces a lynch mob? It feels sick to me, like a madness, a feeding frenzy, a mob mentality. I trust a psychologist or social scientist could peg it in an instant.

Let's remember that there are real lives, feelings, businesses involved. Gossip hurts.

Also, what's up with no penalties for the realtors? And what about real criminals?

Tuning into SH wrote:

Been a while since I tuned into this thread and gotta admit it's a bit out of hand, so Comedian's heads up is well deserved. Native in PA, I get your drift but personal attacks ought to be a no-go just the same.
And though Comedian is correct about that, the very next thing out of his mouth is "the writing on the wall about the Yelton Manor", and calling other posters "blinded", so he immediately contradicts his own advice.
I suggest we keep it civil.
My own take on yesterday's newspaper is that a few
screamers are willing to bury this lady for a misdemeanor charge, and that's just weird. She picks up a few illegal open house signs and all of a sudden she faces a lynch mob? It feels sick to me, like a madness, a feeding frenzy, a mob mentality. I trust a psychologist or social scientist could peg it in an instant.
Let's remember that there are real lives, feelings, businesses involved. Gossip hurts.
Also, what's up with no penalties for the realtors? And what about real criminals?

Huge apologies are owed - I am sorry if I went off the edge a tad and will promise to do better. I should have waited to read the article and address the comments, not the author. History got the best of me and I'll do better next time.

As for the realtors - I agree. The last article I read about this in the paper (last paper I saw was the article about the arrest) was that the ordinance is unenforceable. Then I read that it wasn't being enforced. There is a huge difference. Why isn't it enforceable? I mean, the lady from Yelton found a way to enforce it - remove the signs! If it's unenforceable then her removal of the signs couldn't be illegal up until she touched/destroyed someone's property. The property in question was left on someone else's property, making it littering. So if the ordinance is unenforceable, why aren't the agents being cited for trespassing and littering? The buck has to stop somewhere, right?

It would be so much nicer if everyone could just agree to meet, sit down and work this out. Sometimes it's easy to forget that right doesn't make you a good neighbor and wrong doesn't make you a bad one.

Concerned Comedian wrote:

Oh yes let's demonize everyone that doesn't agree with your point of view but if it makes others feel better to do as you say ** Slap a Jesus Freak or run down Dave Paull ** but I think you guys should take your own advise to the Jesus Freak is say something good !! My Daddy taught me if you haven't got anything gooid to say then don't say anything at all .It is clear that the writing is on the wall about the Yelton Manor a long time coming but I would really have to wonder if you are really in or been there in South Haven to be so blinded ?

Hi, I just got back after my annual week in South Haven. I come from the school that if you haven't got anything good to say, say it anyway! And I always do.

As a Jew, I respect Christians, but babbling Jesus Freaks like the one who comes to this forum are just morons.

Yelton Manor is as gorgeous as ever. The emptiness of the ugly buildings where a favorite of many such as North Beach Inn is gratifying. The grown over grass where 3 Pelicans stood is amazingly laughable.

And only 1 dinner was worthwhile in South Haven, Clementine's as usual. The rest of my meals were eaten in St. Joe or Saugatuck, because a dinner at a place like Tello's or The Vineyard is either too expensive for what they give you or just sucks.

Nice job on restoring the front of McDonald's Drug Store. Ridiculous opening a Quiznos next store which is doomed to fail as most in Chicago have because they are a terrible franchise.

I'll be getting caught up on the rest of this topic.

Steven wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi, I just got back after my annual week in South Haven. I come from the school that if you haven't got anything good to say, say it anyway! And I always do.
As a Jew, I respect Christians, but babbling Jesus Freaks like the one who comes to this forum are just morons.
Yelton Manor is as gorgeous as ever. The emptiness of the ugly buildings where a favorite of many such as North Beach Inn is gratifying. The grown over grass where 3 Pelicans stood is amazingly laughable.
And only 1 dinner was worthwhile in South Haven, Clementine's as usual. The rest of my meals were eaten in St. Joe or Saugatuck, because a dinner at a place like Tello's or The Vineyard is either too expensive for what they give you or just sucks.
Nice job on restoring the front of McDonald's Drug Store. Ridiculous opening a Quiznos next store which is doomed to fail as most in Chicago have because they are a terrible franchise.
I'll be getting caught up on the rest of this topic.

Welcome back, Steven! I was hoping you would post upon your return home to tell us about your trip and any adventures you may have had.

I've missed Clem's the last 5-6 times I was in town as it just is too long a wait in the summer. Where did you eat in Saugatuck? Since you were at Yelton Manor, did you get a chance to talk to the owners about the sign issue? Did you have a great, relaxing time?

I have a whole barn full of illegal signs I have confiscated. I have even seen real estate agents pick up other agent's open house signs on the weekend to better market his own. Yet Ms. Herbert is publicly blamed for any and all signs that have ever disappeared?

If you are in the know in South Haven you also know that Ms. Herbert has been on planning commission for decades. She volunteers all over the place, supports local causes, employs local kids, cares like crazy. I have stood right by her side, I admit it and i'm proud of it. For many years she has publicly fought the City Manager and the exact realtor who made the police report concerning over development (height, density), sign blight, DDA boundaries and many other issues close to the heart of developers and the resume-building city manager. Is it coincidence that on the very last days of his employment in South Haven this city manager oversees this debacle? I doubt it. It's the exact reason why.
This is all politically motivated and it's disgusting.

What she did was very understandable, really. It took guts. Can it at least be forgivable?
Can we take a key from a drunk before he drives or are we stealing his car?
Can we return a truant student we find downtown to the school or are we kidnapping him?
Can we pick up old sofas and bookshelves left on the city parkway for the trash or are we stealing them? If we find a can of spray paint next to some graffiti and pick it up to throw away, are we guilty of the graffiti crime before due process or
are we stealing the spray paint?

If these signs were illegal can't they be picked up by an agent or officer of the city? Or by anyone? Is a planning commissioner an officer of the city? Wasn't Ms. Herbert instructed by Planning administrators to feel free to do what she did? Wasn't there admission of the consent of the city?

I might add that it's hard not to think that a certain amount of misogyny might be at play as well.