Dog owners lament loss of Red Hill Park

Hmmmm... taking something from adults and giving it children? Only in Marin.

Stay in Fairfax and do something about the old Marin Town & Country Club site. That would make a perfect park for everyone....adults, children and dogs.

Red Hill Community Park is the result of many years of public input, design consideration, and hard work by many community groups working together to serve the greater community as a whole. This very precious piece of school property land is being restored so it can be given back to the kids with provisions for adults, dogs, and future adults of our community.

Congratulations to the many volunteers in the community and the hundreds who donated money to this project over the long haul. Thank you to the Ross Valley School Board, the Tamalpais Union High School District, and the Joint Powers Authority (JPA) for having the will and the perseverence to find a common ground and settle on a path to bring this park to a reality. Red Hill Community Park is going to serve the Ross Valley for many years to come. Welll done everyone!

I'm grossly tired of people who buy big dogs and then expect the public to support their need for an exercise yard (a/k/a "a place for my dog to poop where I don't have to clean it up.") What's next--we'll be expected to create taxpayer funded motocross parks so that people who own dirt bikes will have a place to "run" them?

What's next--we'll be expected to create motocross parks so that people who own dirt bikes will have a place to "run" them?

We do, it's called Infineon Raceway!!:-)

While this article is a heartbreaker for those who used to run their dogs at the park, isn't there a bigger picture here?

"Every time I come here, it's with my heart in my mouth, wondering if it's going to be closed," said Bell, who uses Red Hill Park for her own exercise. "They're taking something from adults and giving it to children."

They're not taking something from adults, but rather from dogs. Some dogs are losing one place where they were allowed to run, and that place is being given to school children so that they can better their athletic achievement. Understandly, this is Marin, and that's why this is such an issue, but really...why should a small number of dogs be more important than the needs of our high school kids?

while I have visited the park with my dog a few times in the past couple of years, I am happy that the area is going to be redeveloped.

As a dog owner, I take responsibility to both hike and walk my dog. We do spend time downtown at the park, but as a responsible dog owner, I know that it is my responsibility to take my dog on "outings" that will afford him the opportunity to truly exercise.

What I have noticed with both Sorich and Red Hill is that they are visited regularly by "dog walkers", who essentially, "dump" their group of 6-8 dogs in a space and literally ignore them. I have witness "professional" dog walkers allow the dogs in their care to roam the parking lots and have also witnessed several close calls when those dog were almost run over.

We are not entitled to any park for our dogs, we are first responsible for the care of our own dogs first. Most dogs enjoy going on an outing - and the efforts to actually WALK or HIKE your dog does pay off.

On the topic of responsibility, instead of whining about the lack of space, why not raise money to make the space that has been granted to the dog park the best space it can be?

Put your money where your mouth is, and make sure that the new park is not a messy eye sore covered with poop that it is today.

Let us not overlook the fact that is is SCHOOL DISTRICT property, and this portion of it was created specifically for youth sports. The impromtu used by dog owners (and walkers) arose later when the school was closed.

The Red Hill Park discussions began because the Ross Valley area has a serious shortage of playing fields. So in the planning for the new Red Hill Park where there is not enough space to satisfy each & every special interest group, doesn't it make sense to to give more space for use by HUNDREDS of school-age children rather than a few dozen pet owners (some of which do not even live with Ross Valley School District)?

Pet Owners: Be flexible...the new fenced space can work (BTW, it is vacant most times during the daytime when I walk my dogs...) Try the other parks (dogs can run off leash before 8:00am.)

Giving priority to kids before pets is a no-brainer.

My family has lived in San Anselmo since 1971. I went to Red Hill Junior High from 1972 to 1974 before graduating from Drake H.S. in 1978, the field has changed little since that time. My friends and I have dreamed of a real field there since we dodged gopher holes and tripped over weeds while playing sports there. This new park is that nearly 40-year dream come true for us, our children and many of our parents.
As a Red Hill and Drake H.S. alumni, former Drake and current West Marin soccer coach I can say unequivocally that this field will help reduce the field space deficit that has always existed in the Upper Ross Valley. As a former SABA baseball player I also welcome a new field that will accommodate older teenagers and allow them to play closer to home. This wonderful COMMUNITY PARK will also add a very nice sports court, walking track, dog park and picnic area for those who do not play field sports.
During my six years as a Drake coach finding a field for practice was always a severe challenge and there are now even more Drake teams competing for field space, especially during the spring season.
Additionally, many of us will now be able to walk or ride a bike to this new park when we want to kick a ball, throw a frisbee, play catch, shoot some hoops or fly a kite at this end of town.
Finally, as this marvelous park features a year around field it will relieve much of the stress on nearby Memorial Park, allowing it to recover and become a better facility for all those who use it.
I can't wait to start using this wonderful new Upper Ross Valley Park this winter!
John William Wright

In reading this IJ article, my first thought was , what about the point of view from all the PEOPLE who will use the park? I have a dog... but come on... dogs over kids? The health and well being of our dogs are not going to provide for us in our old age...the KIDS of today are !
And at no point is it mentioned that the current state of Red Hill Park... which can't even be called a park, is horrible. It's a big weed (and dog poop) filled field that's at best nothing but an eyesore.
The new park will have sports fields, yes, but also a NICE dog park, enclosed so the dogs don't run loose,(as they do at Memorial Park DURING baseball games), restrooms, tennis courts, etc.
As noted in another comment, every single person who has spent time, and/or money to get this great park built deserves not only congratulations, but a standing ovation!

Rational approach wrote:

I'm grossly tired of people who buy big dogs and then expect the public to support their need for an exercise yard (a/k/a "a place for my dog to poop where I don't have to clean it up.") What's next--we'll be expected to create taxpayer funded motocross parks so that people who own dirt bikes will have a place to "run" them?

We do have motorcycle parks. It is a good thing because it keeps them in a managed area so they arent tearing up fragile and/or beautiful places. I pay registration fees for these places-you dont. When you buy a off highway vehicle you pay this registration every year. These parks are far and few and you dont pay for them. If ya wanna whine about taxes we pay whine about the richest people in the country who lie, cheat, and steal and still pay nothing in proportion to the middle class people who allow them to be so rich by doing the hard work and buying their products/services. As far as dog parks, why not, your argument is weak. As far as the proposed astroturf, can we please all protest against it. We dont need synthetic grass for any reason. We have enough synthetic stuff surrounding us already. Memorial park is not astroturf so why should this park be any different. Why turn fossilized lifeforms into a non-biodegradealbe lawn.

A disc golf course is needed in central Marin. We only have Stafford Lake. It's a fast growing sport. Kids have enough parks which are usually empty.

My one year old grandson, 3 year old grand daughter and our 10 year old rat terrier have used this space all of their lives. We happily support the overall community majority work and improvements - See you at the ground breaking. Take pictures

This is a great loss to the area where I live. We have taken our dogs to Red Hill since we discovered it, and having moved here over thirty years ago, we have long treasured the facility. To quote the woman in the article, "They're taking something away from adults and giving it to children." Not only that, but they are changing a place used virtually all day, every day, by a few people at a time, to a place abandoned except for the weekends or other times it will be overrun (with the attendant traffic through Red Hill Shopping Center) with people and cars. This will not be an improvement for the neighborhood.

There are many facilities for children, virtually none where children, adults AND their dogs can congregate, socialize, exercise and have fun. Only two "off-leash" parks exist that I know of, so you can't even throw a ball for your dog legally in Marin except there. Might as well walk your dog around the block as go anywhere else "on leash", virtually.

"Good dogs make good neighbors" they tell us. Yet good dogs need to learn to sdocialize with other dogs and people. How can they, without places like this? I'm disabled, so driving to Mill Valley's beautiful Waterfont Park is prohibitively expensive. Dog people provided benches, water bowls, water, and self-policing at Red Hill for decades. "Dog owners ... helped develop plans for the new facility ...." is misleading. Ask what CHOICES the dog owners were given.

I used to be proud of Marin for being a pet-friendly place. I see I was mistaken, sadly.

John wrote:

<quoted text>
As far as the proposed astroturf, can we please all protest against it. We dont need synthetic grass for any reason. We have enough synthetic stuff surrounding us already. Memorial park is not astroturf so why should this park be any different. Why turn fossilized lifeforms into a non-biodegradealbe lawn.

I know this site very well as I have used it and observed it since 1971. While I would greatly prefer a quality natural turf surface, it would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars more to maintain such a field and limit the amount of time it could be used. There simply is no money available for this, unless you are willing to donate it, and the community needs more year-around facilities.

I played on old "astroturf" beginning in the late 1970's, have played on the first generation of this field turf for years and play on the most recent generation of field turf several times a week. It bears no resemblance whatsoever to the old "astroturf" laid down on parking garages decades ago and is a near perfect surface for me to keep my old legs in playing condition.

See you at the park!

John W. Wright

Community is an inclusive word...and the new Red Hill Park will provide for the recreation and enjoyment of many Ross Valley residents and groups. The only shame is that this park wasn't built years ago due to the work of literally handful of people who didn't want to "share" the park.

Let's celebrate making our community a better place to live.

Niki wrote:

There are many facilities for children, virtually none where children, adults AND their dogs can congregate, socialize, exercise and have fun.

You seem to be completely unfamiliar with the design of the new park as it IS a place "where children, adults AND dogs can congregate, socialize, exercise and have fun."

I played sports on this field when my family moved to San Anselmo in 1971, as it was, and remains, a school field. My friends and I spent many great times throwing frisbees, flying kites and watching meteor showers on this field during the 1980's. More recently it has fallen into disrepair and has not been especially hospitable or inviting, except to a very small group of people, who have made no effort to improve it in any appreciable manner.

The new park will well serve multiple constituencies within the Upper Ross valley and will be a great legacy of those who have worked hard to make it a reality.

See you at the park!

John W. Wright

In response to other comments:
"Rational Approach" (with which name I disagree): "I'm grossly tired of people who buy big dogs and then expect the public to support their need for an exercise yard (a/k/a "a place for my dog to poop where I don't have to clean it up.")--the vast majority of dog people who use Red Hill self-police their dogs' feces. As to people buying big dogs, while mine have never been "big", I have never had children yet my taxes pay for your childrens' facilities...do I get a rebate to pay for facilities I would use?? I have always walked my dog--most the people I know at Red Hill do as well, but the difference between walking a dog and throwing the ball for one, letting it play freely with others, and having fellow dog-lovers to socialize with while they do is another matter. It's not "either/or".
"One With A Clue" (respectfully, I don't think you are): It's not "dogs over kids", it's a lack of FAIRNESS for dogs and kids BOTH. Given your prime motivation seems to be having kids to take care of you in your old age, it's hard to respond to you reasonably, but I guarantee, I'll take care of myself in my old age, and my pets will more likely be kinder and more loving to me at that time than most peoples' CHILDREN will be!!
"San Anselmo Dog Owner" (from Hayward?)-you obviously do NOT frequent Red Hill. I have never seen dog walkers do as you say, and I go there daily. I see them walk around the track, and around and around; I see them throw balls, talk to their charges individually, and clean up feces. Sorich is another matter. I have NEVER seen dogs run wild at either parking lot, I have seen many people take much care to ensure the opposite. You obviously are not familiar with Red Hill.
"A Curiosity": 1) As I commented, they ARE both taking something from ADULTS, CHILDREN and many, not "a few" dogs, 2)They are taking one of the FEW places away and providing another of the MANY facilities children have, 3) Dogs need to learn how to interact w/strange people and dogs to live in harmony in the community just as children need athletics (for which, I repeat, there are tons of facilities in Marin) and 4) you're in Virginia, what do you know about it, and why do you care?
Come to think of it, 8 of the 14 comments seem to come from people OUTSIDE Marin. That may be a mistake, tho', since it put me as writing in from "Pittsburg" while I sit here in San Anselmo.

San Anselmo resident wrote:

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You seem to be completely unfamiliar with the design of the new park ....
I played sports on this field when my family moved to San Anselmo in 1971, as it was, and remains, a school field...... More recently it has fallen into disrepair and has not been especially hospitable or inviting, except to a very small group of people, who have made no effort to improve it in any appreciable manner.

I am somewhat familiar with the plans. The tiny, walled-off space left for dogs isn't much bigger than the "pocket-park" dog park at Civic Center. It's hardly enough to throw a ball for a dog. It may have been a school field once, but from what I have learned was PURCHASED by the school district for one dollar and a lot of political machinating. For many years it has sat deserted and ignored by the community except for us--who COULD NOT legally "improve" it (which we would have, if we could), tho' picnic benches and water facilities have been put there by dog people. And we are not "a small group", there are a goodly number of people who use it on a regular basis and have for years.

P.S. I agree with ICU, and would LOVE to see Fairfax make Town & Country available, and I would be far less surprised to see that town do something like that than I would see San Anselmo do anything for residents not its surrounding upper-middle and upper income ones. We live here too.

Niki IN SAN ANSELMO wrote:

<quoted text>
I am somewhat familiar with the plans. The tiny, walled-off space left for dogs isn't much bigger than the "pocket-park" dog park at Civic Center. It's hardly enough to throw a ball for a dog. It may have been a school field once, but from what I have learned was PURCHASED by the school district for one dollar and a lot of political machinating. For many years it has sat deserted and ignored by the community except for us--who COULD NOT legally "improve" it (which we would have, if we could), tho' picnic benches and water facilities have been put there by dog people. And we are not "a small group", there are a goodly number of people who use it on a regular basis and have for years.
P.S. I agree with ICU, and would LOVE to see Fairfax make Town & Country available, and I would be far less surprised to see that town do something like that than I would see San Anselmo do anything for residents not its surrounding upper-middle and upper income ones. We live here too.

Since when is one-third of an acre considered "tiny"? If about sixty yards is not enough room to throw a ball for a dog, then you might consider heading out to the beach where you can throw a ball for miles. The field has always belonged to the Ross Valley School District ( I went to Red Hill Junior High and played my junior high school sports on this very field, the Tamalpais Union High School District has been incredibly generous, and the RVSD extremely wise, to structure this project in a way that benefits the most people in the community while addressing decades old inequalities affecting Sir Francis Drake High School, San Anselmo's high school.

Those who have waited so long to improve the "dog park" can now demonstrate their numbers and generosity by fully funding the new dog park quickly and without reservation.

In my almost forty years in San Anselmo I have found its residents to be very generous and community-oriented and this new park is a testament to that generosity and community spirit.

See you at the park!

John W. Wright