Taking away the kids

Bush says Saudi oil boost doesn't solve US problem...

WHY NOT?

BECAUSE SAUDI... JUST...THE #1 INVESTORS IN US.

Some of the alleged pregnant "children" have turned out to be adults, with all their pregnancies safely occurring after they were of legal age. While I don't condone child abuse, it appears that we dont have any proof that it is actually happening.

No one is arresting Britney spear's parents for allowing their very underage child to get pregnant.

Scholastica wrote:

Some of the alleged pregnant "children" have turned out to be adults, with all their pregnancies safely occurring after they were of legal age. While I don't condone child abuse, it appears that we dont have any proof that it is actually happening.
No one is arresting Britney spear's parents for allowing their very underage child to get pregnant.

Was she raped? Did someone pick out the man she was to be tied with the rest of her life? Or did she do it on her own free will?
Can't you even see the difference?

Let's not forget something here.

There's an old adage that goes "There's no such thing as an absolute freedom of any law in the Constitution.", and that includes freedom of religion. In other words, while it's illegal for any government operating under the authority of the U.S. Constitution to flat-out ban any religion, there's nothing to prevent such governments from enacting laws that make various religious PRACTICES illegal, if said practices violate any established and accepted sociatal values, mores', traditions etc. That's why while you may belong to a religion that advocates using marijuana as a sacrament, or killing people in the n ame of your god, or handling live, venomous snakes as a way of proving your faith to name just a few examples, such practices are illegal under the laws of this land, and if tried & convicted, one can go to jail for that.

This matter is no different. Polygamy & child rape are illegal in this country, no matter in whose name you're performing those acts.

Smart BACK wrote:

Bush says Saudi oil boost doesn't solve US problem...
WHY NOT?
BECAUSE SAUDI... JUST...THE #1 INVESTORS IN US.

Because Saudi is number 3 on the list of where we get most of our oil.

The only way to solve our problems with oil is to start drilling our own here and in the gulf etc... and start building more refineries.

Sadly, the Democrats and environmentalist extremists have been sucessful in stopping that.

So here we sit...$4 a gallon fuel and China in the Gulf of Mexico drilling for oil we could be using.

Innacurate.

Until the 1st is ammended using the previsions described in Article 5, it says what it says.

Thelemmings of our nation may be more interested in what David will win Idol than they are about their rights as the Government crushes them...but the right still exists.

So while thre FLDS are a strange lot and I find them nuts... they have the right to practice their religion as they see fit as long as in doing so they do not violate someone else natural rights.

Orlando Athiest wrote:

Let's not forget something here.
There's an old adage that goes "There's no such thing as an absolute freedom of any law in the Constitution.", and that includes freedom of religion. In other words, while it's illegal for any government operating under the authority of the U.S. Constitution to flat-out ban any religion, there's nothing to prevent such governments from enacting laws that make various religious PRACTICES illegal, if said practices violate any established and accepted sociatal values, mores', traditions etc. That's why while you may belong to a religion that advocates using marijuana as a sacrament, or killing people in the n ame of your god, or handling live, venomous snakes as a way of proving your faith to name just a few examples, such practices are illegal under the laws of this land, and if tried & convicted, one can go to jail for that.
This matter is no different. Polygamy & child rape are illegal in this country, no matter in whose name you're performing those acts.

I most certainly don't condone child abuse ,and maybe I missed it,has any thing been proven yet or even corroborated. Having seen the way some of the law-enforcement folks make things up to get a bust, I'm a little leary as I havn't heard any concrete proof.

4liberty1st wrote:

Innacurate.
Until the 1st is ammended using the previsions described in Article 5, it says what it says.
Thelemmings of our nation may be more interested in what David will win Idol than they are about their rights as the Government crushes them...but the right still exists.
So while thre FLDS are a strange lot and I find them nuts... they have the right to practice their religion as they see fit as long as in doing so they do not violate someone else natural rights.
<quoted text>

Sex with a minor is not a religious act. It is an illegal act. A thirteen year old girl controlled by the head of a sect and forced to have sex with a man is not consenting to anything. If adults want to have multiple partners, that's one thing. Sex with children is perversion.

Another Idea wrote:

<quoted text>
Sex with a minor is not a religious act.

No charges have been filed against anyone in the TX compound, much less for having sex with a minor. In fact, the so called pregnant minors have now been cleared as adults after they were falsly detained as children despite having proof they were not.

So let's stick to reality and not hyperbole.

Another Idea wrote:

<quoted text>

It is an illegal act. A thirteen year old girl controlled by the head of a sect and forced to have sex with a man is not consenting to anything. If adults want to have multiple partners, that's one thing. Sex with children is perversion.

Since there is no evidence a 13 year old girl was forced to do anything in that compound and no criminal charges have been filed for 49 days now, your claim is once again a straw man and hyperbole.

In America, one is innocent until proven guilty. Not gulty despite the fact there is not even enough evidence to charge anyone with a crime 49 days after a raid on people's homes that was based on a crank phone call.

They have 430 plus children and somewhat over 500 DNA samples. What is wrong with this picture? The children can't or won't tell them who their parents are. Do you think this is normal?

I don't think anyone is condoning rape and abuse (although abuse is rampant in the country, and it is done by the media millions of times every day). But where's the beef? It's the handling of the whole case that is at question.

And, remember, Texas just changed it's law from 14 to 16 for marriage just a few years ago (2 or 3?).

No-Expo-Facto says that you cannot be charged with a crime for something that was not a crime at the time you did that thing that is now prohibited by law.

Quit trying to intellectualize the case. The fact remains the mothers are so brainwashed that they will choose to lose their children rather than their religion or life on that isolated compound.

the other sect got charged with breaking child labor laws.

Did you notice the school isn't possibly large enough for the kids? How many hours per day do the kids spend at school or is that eyewash too?

It's not one issue. It's education, medical care, failure of mothers to protect their children from physical and sexual abuse, etc. If it is proven there isn't ANY of that, no doubt the mothers will have a chance at getting the children back.

I just don't see them as moving off the compound or giving up their convicted rapist WJ as their prophet.

I guess you are okay with WJ "rules" and his leadership as a "prophet"?

You'f gleefully turn your kids over to Warren Jeffs or one of his men in charge? If not, then stop pretending. And if you agree with his way of running things and using kids, then we're done anyway.

Tex wrote:

They have 430 plus children and somewhat over 500 DNA samples. What is wrong with this picture? The children can't or won't tell them who their parents are. Do you think this is normal?

Prove it. You can't.

They came in like nazi storm troopers and scared the piss out of a bunch of kids who are taught to distrust the outseide world.

Last time I checked... it was not against the law to teach your kids that they should not speak to strangers.

You continue to IGNORE the facts.

They had a 22 year old woman in custody for over 40 days claiming she was a raped child despite her having PROOF she was 22.

They raided the ranch on a crank phone call.

The original complaint/Warrant has been dropped.

Damn near 50 days have passed and not a single criminal charge has been filed.

THIS ISN'T NAZI FREEKIN GERMANY. This is America.

If it is true that these strange folks were forcing children to marry adults... then by God the state needs to have enough evidence to charge someone before they just kidnap 460+ children and unlawfully detain several adult woman without any proof they are minors.

Tex wrote:

Quit trying to intellectualize the case. The fact remains the mothers are so brainwashed that they will choose to lose their children rather than their religion or life on that isolated compound.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_9211573
She doesn't sound brainwashed to me.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/576...
Your emotionalizing the case left you looking rediculous.

Quit basing your lame ass claims on emotion and start using your intellect.

Tex wrote:

the other sect got charged with breaking child labor laws.

In America we don't persecute person "X" because person "Y" did something. Maybe you should move to China or Cuba if you want Government persecution of anyone who does not worship the way you do.

Tex wrote:

Did you notice the school isn't possibly large enough for the kids? How many hours per day do the kids spend at school or is that eyewash too?

Have you ever heard of home schooling?

You seem to be a bigot who wants these people rounded up and put in gas chambers simply based on their faith.

If they are guilty... then by God it is the Government's job to prove it. Not theirs to prove they are not. This is America... not the former societ union or Nazi Germany.

Tex wrote:

I guess you are okay with WJ "rules" and his leadership as a "prophet"?

<Middle finger stuffed right up in your bigoted face.> Clear enough?

You'f gleefully turn your kids over to Warren Jeffs or one of his men in charge? If not, then stop pretending. And if you agree with his way of running things and using kids, then we're done anyway.

I'm not even Mormon, Adolph... so go practice safe sex and fornicate yourself. Fascist pig!

4Liberty1st, Tex must be pretty young. Has lots of spit and energy but not much meaningful to do with it. Maybe I'm wrong about the age?

The people on this forum seem hard nosed with blinders. They just can't see that this kind of thing just sets bad precendent, and it could be them next. Who will condemn them as they face their delima with cries for help?

How about that ,you people are real good at putting a word in for another, but this is big ,children being this kind of thing is killing all american value for famiily.Children are being kidnapped and taken into foster care everywhere in the united states,and no one wants to address the rising number of custudy cases in family courts at all. this is sickining to know our government isn't even willing to check into all the lawsuites aginst the los angeles county childrens protective services,of faluse alligations of abuse, and unfounded allegations of most of the children in foster care placement .

FLDS: When Warren Jeffs rules
Warren Jeffs becomes leader and prophet of the Fundamentalist of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS) in September 2002, after the death of his father. Years later, he is convicted in Utah on two counts of being an accomplice to rape. His extremism knows no boundaries.

•Warren Jeffs assumes leadership of the FLDS after the death of his father, Rulon Jeffs.
•By 1995, Warren Jeffs is becoming a subtle, but more powerful presence.
•He has rigid rules against women becoming obese.
•Warren Jeffs is the son of deceased FLDS polygamist leader Rulon Jeffs.
•Warren Jeffs bans the color red. It is reserved for Jesus Christ.
•The obedience Warren Jeffs’ preaches is a woman’s complete submission to her husband.
•Women are not to go into town without the company of a man.
•Warren’s father, after he became the prophet, put a stop to higher education.
•Television, radio and the Intranet are completely off-limits, except for business purposes.
•Clothing is limited to only pastel colors in a few styles.
•Domestic violence increases after the release of Warren’s tapes, calling for even more obedience among women toward their husbands.
•Warren Jeffs takes sex away from the community by decreeing that it can only be used for procreation.
•Warren decrees in 1998 that all worldly reading materials are to be eliminated.
•Education has almost no value in Warren Jeffs’ FLDS.

List compiled by Karla Mass with notes taken from book "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop with Laura Palmer.

Stork wrote:

4Liberty1st, Tex must be pretty young. Has lots of spit and energy but not much meaningful to do with it. Maybe I'm wrong about the age?
The people on this forum seem hard nosed with blinders. They just can't see that this kind of thing just sets bad precendent, and it could be them next. Who will condemn them as they face their delima with cries for help?

I know the feeling. I was and still am very upset that my state banned smoking. It is my right to smoke, and none of the state's business.

Smoke, but there must be a huge drop in the cancer rate (from 2nd hand) there now, right? Ah, but the fresh air comming from your self righteous neighbor's tail pipe.

Not to worry, after cigarettes, it's farts. They are talking about taxing people for each cow they have because of the methane gas they give off. Well, farts do to.......I can see it coming. Only 1 wife, so no sex tonight if I don't tow the line, and can't even afford to fart.