Should intelligent design be taught in the classroom?

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The Dude Birkenhead, UK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #22 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> I won't keep it to myself, I'll promote it. Clean up your own act. And you a free to promote bigotry if that is your wish. It's called freedom of speech. That won't change the laws on which your country was founded however. Same way as it hasn't changed for the Klan's favour either.
MORE Belton, TX	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #23 Jan 26, 2012 Judged: 3 3 3 Kong_ wrote: <quoted text> Well, perhaps they did (you failed to provide a specific link to this allegation, but just for argument's sake, let's say they did). But in Kitzmiller vs Dover, when the CONSERVATIVE Federal judge, appointed by George Bush (I) upheld the Constitution by finding FOR the plaintiffs (and against those seeking to teach Intelligent Design in public schools), Judge Jones and the plaintiff received threats on their own and their families lives. By (supposed) "good Christians" who didn't like his decision on the case. Was YOUR judge, or his family threatened with murder for his decision? That's ridiculous. You're making fun of Christians, forgetting all along that they set the principles for our nation.
MORE Belton, TX	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #24 Jan 26, 2012 Judged: 1 1 1 The Dude wrote: <quoted text> We don't go by some old document like that? I thought you said READ your history? When it is quite clear that WE HAVE read our history, and it's quite clear by what the FOUNDERS THEMSELVES WROTE that they wanted religious freedom for all, and for the US to be a secular nation and not a Christian nation. So now you're telling us to just ignore the Treaty of Tripoli AND the US Constitution which is the core document of which your country is FOUNDED upon, and that we should just take your word for it that the Founders wanted something completely different when they established the laws to be the opposite of your claims? Are you a foreigner to planet Earth by any chance? Ha - your argument is a red herring. We go by the Constitution and practical sense - BOTH. Nothing is to be taken out of context. It can be shown that our nation was Christian by history of the lives of the founding fathers and their many quotes about God. The Treaty of Tripoli isn't our governing document here. It's just a document of reference.
llDayo “Inquiring minds want to know!” Since: Dec 06 1,900 Lebanon, PA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #25 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> Well, they might have read all that, but it was just some kind of formality. They didn't put all that into practice. We go by what actually happened, not just some old document like that. Ah, I see. Their owns words would be more helpful, correct? "Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
llDayo “Inquiring minds want to know!” Since: Dec 06 1,900 Lebanon, PA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #26 Jan 26, 2012 Judged: 2 2 2 MORE wrote: The Treaty of Tripoli isn't our governing document here. It's just a document of reference. It's a document that specifically states the US is not a christian nation and it was signed unanimously by members of Congress.
Kong_ “Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ” Since: May 08 9,345 Orlando	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #27 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> Ha - your argument is a red herring. We go by the Constitution and practical sense - BOTH. Nothing is to be taken out of context. It can be shown that our nation was Christian by history of the lives of the founding fathers and their many quotes about God. The Treaty of Tripoli isn't our governing document here. It's just a document of reference. US Constitution - 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." You lose.
The Dude Birkenhead, UK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #28 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> Ha - your argument is a red herring. We go by the Constitution and practical sense - BOTH. Nothing is to be taken out of context. It can be shown that our nation was Christian by history of the lives of the founding fathers and their many quotes about God. The Treaty of Tripoli isn't our governing document here. It's just a document of reference. No, the governing document is the US Constitution, which guarantees religious freedom for ALL. The Founders didn't share a common belief by the way. There were about 6 from different Protestant sects, 2 Catholics, and the rest were deists. Jefferson considered himself to be a religion of one. Observing the variety of their own beliefs, they recognized the US would also be comprised of a variety of peoples whose beliefs would no doubt vary even more. Hence why they did NOT establish the US as a Christian nation, which is noted by not only their own writings, but also the TOTAL LACK of mention of Christianity in the Constitution, as well as the guarantee that religious freedom would be enabled in America. So what's so impractical about an American citizen believing in religion different to that of your own? Or is it simply that you don't like that? Would it not also have been practical for the Founders to explicitly state the US was a Christian nation if that was their intent instead of writing the COMPLETE opposite?
Kong_ “Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ” Since: May 08 9,345 Orlando	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #29 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> That's ridiculous. You're making fun of Christians, forgetting all along that they set the principles for our nation. I'm "making fun of Christians"?!!?!? Are you serious? Those 'FINE CHRISTIANS' THREATENED TO MURDER A UNITED STATES FEDERAL JUDGE. Hardly a laughing matter. http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2009/... Following his decision against ID in the Kitzmiller case, Judge Jones received death threats. He and his family had to be put under the protection for a week by federal marshals.“If you would have told me when I got on the bench four years ago that I would have death threats in a case like this as opposed to, for example, a crack cocaine case where I mete out a heavy sentence, I would have told you that you were crazy,” Jones said in a speech about this,“But I did. And that’s a sad statement.” There were press accounts about that. Here’s more that we didn’t know before: [Judge Jones] "When I returned home after giving my own testimony against ID as an expert witness in that same case, I found two threatening messages waiting on my answering machine." <<end cut/paste>> Nice, eh?

MORE Waco, TX	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #30 Jan 26, 2012 Judged: 1 Kong_ wrote: <quoted text> I'm "making fun of Christians"?!!?!? Are you serious? Those 'FINE CHRISTIANS' THREATENED TO MURDER A UNITED STATES FEDERAL JUDGE. Hardly a laughing matter. http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2009/... Following his decision against ID in the Kitzmiller case, Judge Jones received death threats. He and his family had to be put under the protection for a week by federal marshals.“If you would have told me when I got on the bench four years ago that I would have death threats in a case like this as opposed to, for example, a crack cocaine case where I mete out a heavy sentence, I would have told you that you were crazy,” Jones said in a speech about this,“But I did. And that’s a sad statement.” There were press accounts about that. Here’s more that we didn’t know before: [Judge Jones] "When I returned home after giving my own testimony against ID as an expert witness in that same case, I found two threatening messages waiting on my answering machine." <<end cut/paste>> Nice, eh? All of you are picking out things to suit what you want to believe instead of looking back to see where our early schools had prayers and devotions and those where Christian, not other beliefs. Atheists used to hide and keep it secret. We need to go back to that. All kinds of gays are rising up against federal judges who won't let them have their marriages. They should convert.
Kong_ “Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ” Since: May 08 9,345 Orlando	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #31 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> All of you are picking out things to suit what you want to believe instead of looking back to see where our early schools had prayers and devotions and those where Christian, not other beliefs. Atheists used to hide and keep it secret. We need to go back to that. All kinds of gays are rising up against federal judges who won't let them have their marriages. They should convert. You are F'd up, dude. They should build a 40ft wall around Texas and keep all the loonies -- like yourself -- in. You deserve eachother. I gave you example(s) of persons who objected to a court ruling against ID giving DEATH THREATS to a Federal Judge. You come back and say that "All kinds of gays are rising up against federal judges...". Did the gay people threaten to KILL that judge? Citation, please. Also, even today you can have prayer in school. It just cannot be led by school officials. Personally, I have no problem with persons who have faith in a deity --- although it's not my personal conviction. HAVE AT IT. But the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES prohibits you from endorsing ANY particular religion in public schools. If you want to have the Bible taught in school, send your kid to a Church-led school of your choice.
The Dude Wallasey, UK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #32 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> All of you are picking out things to suit what you want to believe instead of looking back to see where our early schools had prayers and devotions and those where Christian, not other beliefs. Actually we're picking out the things about the Founders, AND the laws of the land that contradict your baseless claims, whereas you are in effect basically saying anything that suits your bigoted biases. MORE wrote: Atheists used to hide and keep it secret. We need to go back to that. Why? Just because you don't like them and disagree with them? Why do you oppose freedom of religion? Why do you oppose freedom of speech? Why do you oppose equal rights? Why do you oppose the founding principles of the United States of America, as demonstrated in historical documents and the words of the Founders themselves? Why do you hate America? Why do you want America to be a theocracy? Why do you claim to want to be different to Iran (a theocratic country which outlaws too much religious dissent) then claim to want the exact same thing? Why are you a hypocrite? MORE wrote: All kinds of gays are rising up against federal judges who won't let them have their marriages. They should convert. Or they should be allowed equal rights. Would you convert from your particular brand of Christianity to something else? If not, then you (should) understand why others don't want to convert to your particular brand of religion.
The Dude Wallasey, UK	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #33 Jan 26, 2012 Kong_ wrote: <quoted text> You are F'd up, dude. They should build a 40ft wall around Texas and keep all the loonies -- like yourself -- in. You deserve eachother. I gave you example(s) of persons who objected to a court ruling against ID giving DEATH THREATS to a Federal Judge. You come back and say that "All kinds of gays are rising up against federal judges...". Did the gay people threaten to KILL that judge? Citation, please. Also, even today you can have prayer in school. It just cannot be led by school officials. Personally, I have no problem with persons who have faith in a deity --- although it's not my personal conviction. HAVE AT IT. But the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES prohibits you from endorsing ANY particular religion in public schools. If you want to have the Bible taught in school, send your kid to a Church-led school of your choice. He doesn't want that. He's a poster-child for religious fundamentalism at its very worst. Welcome to the world the creationists and IDers fight for: End to religious freedom, end to equality, end to freedom of speech, end to the US Constitution. Hello Iran. But you'll be fine. Just as long as you pray the right way...
Gillette Fairfield, IA	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #34 Jan 26, 2012 Any possibility that MORE is a POE jerking our chains? Something doesn't feel right. Trying too hard, I think.:)
MORE Temple, TX	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #35 Jan 26, 2012 Kong_ wrote: <quoted text> You are F'd up, dude. They should build a 40ft wall around Texas and keep all the loonies -- like yourself -- in. You deserve eachother. I gave you example(s) of persons who objected to a court ruling against ID giving DEATH THREATS to a Federal Judge. You come back and say that "All kinds of gays are rising up against federal judges...". Did the gay people threaten to KILL that judge? Citation, please. Also, even today you can have prayer in school. It just cannot be led by school officials. Personally, I have no problem with persons who have faith in a deity --- although it's not my personal conviction. HAVE AT IT. But the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES prohibits you from endorsing ANY particular religion in public schools. If you want to have the Bible taught in school, send your kid to a Church-led school of your choice. Are you not keeping up with current events of gays marching, protesting, and police violence? Well, the prayer in school shouldn't be secretive. It should be open. They used to have devotionals. We had the same constitution then and it didn't stop it, so no reason for it to now. People can't always afford private schools. Do you know that there is a gallup poll that 92% of Americans believe in God? So the public schools need to get in compliance with the 92% and let the rest, the 8%, send theirs to private schools.
MORE Temple, TX	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #36 Jan 26, 2012 The Dude wrote: <quoted text> Actually we're picking out the things about the Founders, AND the laws of the land that contradict your baseless claims, whereas you are in effect basically saying anything that suits your bigoted biases. <quoted text> Why? Just because you don't like them and disagree with them? Why do you oppose freedom of religion? Why do you oppose freedom of speech? Why do you oppose equal rights? Why do you oppose the founding principles of the United States of America, as demonstrated in historical documents and the words of the Founders themselves? Why do you hate America? Why do you want America to be a theocracy? Why do you claim to want to be different to Iran (a theocratic country which outlaws too much religious dissent) then claim to want the exact same thing? Why are you a hypocrite? <quoted text> Or they should be allowed equal rights. Would you convert from your particular brand of Christianity to something else? If not, then you (should) understand why others don't want to convert to your particular brand of religion. Did I say I oppose freedom of speech? People can talk about what they want, but our children need to learn about God and the Bible. That's what I love about America, that they should be free to worship. The settlers came here to get away from a church that dictated to them certain rituals, not to stop being Chrisitans. They were Christians. Iran is believing in a violent religion that blows up buildings. How many Christians do you see doing that? There are nut cases who do, but there are always nuts out there who resort to violence, it's not the Christian faith that brought on violence because we don't believe in getting to heaven by killing people the way the people in Iran do. I'm not the hypocrite - you are because you pretend to represent values, yet you are stealing away Christian's rights. You say Christians want to force off their beliefs, but you are taking awsy their right to have devotionals in school when you say they should pay for private school - no, the majority should rule, that is the American way.
MORE Temple, TX	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #37 Jan 26, 2012 Kong_ wrote: <quoted text> You are F'd up, dude. They should build a 40ft wall around Texas and keep all the loonies -- like yourself -- in. You deserve eachother. I gave you example(s) of persons who objected to a court ruling against ID giving DEATH THREATS to a Federal Judge. You come back and say that "All kinds of gays are rising up against federal judges...". Did the gay people threaten to KILL that judge? Citation, please. Also, even today you can have prayer in school. It just cannot be led by school officials. Personally, I have no problem with persons who have faith in a deity --- although it's not my personal conviction. HAVE AT IT. But the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES prohibits you from endorsing ANY particular religion in public schools. If you want to have the Bible taught in school, send your kid to a Church-led school of your choice. See, that just proves my point, you are denying my right by wanting to build a fence and lock me up for being a Christian. You want to force your non belief onto America. The constitution was never meant to be twisted to suit you.
MORE Temple, TX	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #38 Jan 26, 2012 Gillette wrote: Any possibility that MORE is a POE jerking our chains? Something doesn't feel right. Trying too hard, I think.:) No one would even know what that's supposed to mean. You are all hypocrites acting like you care about America when you're destryong it's very core.
MikeF “Pissing people off since 1949” Since: Apr 08 14,826 Lakeland, FL	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #39 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> Are you not keeping up with current events of gays marching, protesting, and police violence? Well, the prayer in school shouldn't be secretive. It should be open. They used to have devotionals. We had the same constitution then and it didn't stop it, so no reason for it to now. People can't always afford private schools. Do you know that there is a gallup poll that 92% of Americans believe in God? So the public schools need to get in compliance with the 92% and let the rest, the 8%, send theirs to private schools. Prayers do not have to be secretive - they just can't be led by a public school employee. Yes, we had the same constitution. We also used to have slavery. We're supposed to get better and more respectful of others as time goes on. Without challenging your 92%, you do realize that they all don't believe in your version of god, yes? Or did you mean only your version of god should be allowed?
MikeF “Pissing people off since 1949” Since: Apr 08 14,826 Lakeland, FL	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #40 Jan 26, 2012 MORE wrote: <quoted text> Did I say I oppose freedom of speech? People can talk about what they want, but our children need to learn about God and the Bible. You have that right. You have head of the Constitution, haven't you?
MikeF “Pissing people off since 1949” Since: Apr 08 14,826 Lakeland, FL	Reply » \| Report Abuse \| Judge it! \| #41 Jan 26, 2012 Judged: 1 1 1 MORE wrote: <quoted text> No one would even know what that's supposed to mean. You are all hypocrites acting like you care about America when you're destryong it's very core. I'm a veteran. I served from 67 to 74. So stick you hypocrite remark up your ass.
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