Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 Full story: CNN 32,006

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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Livinginthelando fcrazy

West Plains, MO

#9341 Jun 9, 2012
"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races-that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races... I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having superior position assigned to the white race."

Abraham Lincoln 1858
The Lincoln-Douglas Debates of 1858
Livinginthelando fcrazy

West Plains, MO

#9342 Jun 9, 2012
"Such separation if effected at all, must be effected by colonization:... What colonization most needs is a hearty will.... Let us be brought to believe that it is morally right, and at the same time favorable to, or at least not against, our interests to transfer the African to his native clime, and we shall find a way to do it, however great the task may be.

Abraham Lincoln
Abraham Lincoln Speeches, Letters, and State Papers vol. 1, pg. 458

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#9343 Jun 9, 2012
brad wrote:
<quoted text>
Hes just the Senate majority leader who has the power to block laws that are in the best intrests of the nation.
And Obwana cuts to the chase and just beats up woman.
For every Romney ying there 10 far worse Obwana yangs.
You think that it is proper for the POTUS to assault and batter a gay man. You think that it is proper for the POTUS to threaten excommunication if a woman would not give up her child for reassignment to a Mormon couple.

Bishop Romputz is not fit to be POTUS. Have you seen him this week on the stump? He is hysterical, screeching, hyperventilating, nuts. This man doesn't have a grip on himself.
Livinginthelando fcrazy

West Plains, MO

#9344 Jun 9, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>You think that it is proper for the POTUS to assault and batter a gay man. You think that it is proper for the POTUS to threaten excommunication if a woman would not give up her child for reassignment to a Mormon couple.

Bishop Romputz is not fit to be POTUS. Have you seen him this week on the stump? He is hysterical, screeching, hyperventilating, nuts. This man doesn't have a grip on himself.
Have you ever played "telephone"? It's a fun kids game that also works well as a teaching tool. You get a bunch of kids and sit them in a large circle, next to each other. The first person leans over to the child sitting next to them and whispers a sentence into their ear. That child leans over to the person sitting next to them and attempts to repeat the sentence verbatim, and so on and so on. By the time it gets all the way around you will end up with something entirely different. Usually not even remotely resembling what you started with. You should play it sometime.
Janice

Los Angeles, CA

#9345 Jun 9, 2012
@EVERYONE

So, I've whittled down religion and history to the point where either Mormonism is legit or God doesn't exist; here is my essay of doom. I don't answer the question for you, instead, I let the reader decide. This is only a worthwhile process if you actually read the books below:

Mormonism, Seventh day Adventists, Christianity, Jehovah's Witnesses, and any other "Christ-based" religion is based on gnostic mythology written by Greek philosophers in around 600 BC. The following texts are consider THE OLDEST religious texts in existence even though they were written in 600 BC. They are the oldest because, as the story goes, they were transcribed from the carvings of a man named Hermes. The tradition claims that Hermes wrote the "secrets and knowledge of the Gods" on his "Emerald Stone". As a side note, the knowledge in these books is the same "sacred knowledge" that Mormons use in their temples. For this reason, Mormons will always claim "we are more Christian than you". The stories in these books, according to tradition, date to around 2000 to 4000 BC; that is, sometime before Noah's flood. We have no evidence that Noah, Moses, or Hermes ever existed, we only have their history as was passed down by word of mouth. In other words, these texts supposedly represent the ancient knowledge of the Egyptians from around 4000BC to 10,000 BC or whenever the first man sprung into existence. In fact, if these texts are real and if God is real, then the Mormon church would be the only true and correct church because their claim is that they have LITERALLY restored the original religion that God taught to Adam and Even. Furthermore, and as you will note if you read these texts, you will notice clues that suggest all of human philosophy and modern philosophy is based on the ideas in these books. What I mean is these books speak of mathematics and geometry and these books were in fact read by the fathers of western philosophy: Philo, Aristotle, and Plato. The importance of these book's validity and tradition is the very foundation of all modern religion and much of the thinking we do today. Forget your beliefs, forget what your pastor teaches you, the most important question is, are these texts valid and do they represent the FIRST knowledge of salvation as taught to Adam and Eve. If one is able to prove that these books do in fact contain God's true saving ordinances as taught to Adam and Eve, then SOME religious belief is valid. Unfortunately, the only religion who practices these ancient methods to a 'T' are the Mormons; therefore, either the Mormons are the correct religion or God doesn't exist; and I am quite serious in this analysis. I find discussions like this fascinating for two reasons, 1) you finally learn where religion comes from; and, 2) you learn that Mormons not only believe in Christ, but that they have restored the original "secrets and knowledge of God" that was given to the first man to ever exist on earth.

So, do you choose Mormonism or Atheism?

HERMES TRISMEGISTUS
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/woe/woe07.htm

THE "BOOK OF THE DEAD"
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/woe/woe06.htm

EGYPTIAN MAGIC
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/woe/woe08.htm

THE VISION OF HERMES
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/woe/woe09.htm

THE STORY OF THE BOOK OF THOTH
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/woe/woe10.htm
----------
THRICE-GREATEST HERMES
http://sacred-texts.com/gno/th1/index.htm

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#9346 Jun 9, 2012
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races-that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races... I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having superior position assigned to the white race."
Abraham Lincoln 1858
The Lincoln-Douglas Debates of 1858
Apparently, he changed his mind:

"We were proclaiming ourselves political hypocrites before the world, by thus fostering Human Slavery and proclaiming ourselves, at the same time, the sole friends of Human Freedom." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois" (October 4, 1854), p. 242.

"Without slavery the rebellion could never have existed; without slavery it could not continue." Lincoln's Second Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862.

"I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself. I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 255.

"If we cannot give freedom to every creature, let us do nothing that will impose slavery upon any other creature." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Chicago, Illinois" (July 10, 1858), p. 501.

"I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any abolitionist." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Chicago, Illinois" (July 10, 1858), p. 492.

"I did say, at Chicago, in my speech there, that I do wish to see the spread of slavery arrested and to see it placed where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in course of ultimate extinction." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois" (July 17, 1858), p. 514.

"Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man's nature - opposition to it, is his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 271.

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II,(August 1, 1858?), p. 532.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#9347 Jun 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You're proof of that.
Says one of the liars.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#9348 Jun 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently, he changed his mind:
"We were proclaiming ourselves political hypocrites before the world, by thus fostering Human Slavery and proclaiming ourselves, at the same time, the sole friends of Human Freedom." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois" (October 4, 1854), p. 242.
"Without slavery the rebellion could never have existed; without slavery it could not continue." Lincoln's Second Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862.
"I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself. I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 255.
"If we cannot give freedom to every creature, let us do nothing that will impose slavery upon any other creature." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Chicago, Illinois" (July 10, 1858), p. 501.
"I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any abolitionist." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Chicago, Illinois" (July 10, 1858), p. 492.
"I did say, at Chicago, in my speech there, that I do wish to see the spread of slavery arrested and to see it placed where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in course of ultimate extinction." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois" (July 17, 1858), p. 514.
"Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man's nature - opposition to it, is his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 271.
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II,(August 1, 1858?), p. 532.
Did he?

I see no mention of race in any of these quotes.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#9349 Jun 10, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
You think that it is proper for the POTUS to assault and batter a gay man. You think that it is proper for the POTUS to threaten excommunication if a woman would not give up her child for reassignment to a Mormon couple.
Bishop Romputz is not fit to be POTUS. Have you seen him this week on the stump? He is hysterical, screeching, hyperventilating, nuts. This man doesn't have a grip on himself.
Since neither story is true, the point is moot.

However, do you think it proper for the POTUS to smoke pot and snort coke?

Obama himself has admitted to both.
Imhotep

Casselberry, FL

#9350 Jun 10, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
One miracle that can be proved?
That for as advanced as it is, my arthritis doesn't hurt as bad as it used to...and I take no meds for it anymore.
That's miracle enough for me.
You are happy with your faith. Good
I think faith is nonsense, nothing personal.

I find it odd that people have so little curiosity, are willing to accept without question, and abandon reality.
Frankly, religious dogma, anyone's, belongs in the 'personal hobby' category.

Mormon vs Muslim/Christian is like Mickey Mouse vs Bugs Bunny.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#9351 Jun 10, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Did he?
I see no mention of race in any of these quotes.
If he wasn't talking about slavery in America, what country was he talking about? Don't be so thick.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#9352 Jun 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
If he wasn't talking about slavery in America, what country was he talking about? Don't be so thick.
Sure he was talking about slavery in America, but why do you assume that slavery and race are the same thing?

In Lincoln's time, there were already states that prohibited slavery, but that doesn't mean that people of "color" were automatically thought of as equals.
Livinginthelando fcrazy

West Plains, MO

#9353 Jun 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>Apparently, he changed his mind:

"We were proclaiming ourselves political hypocrites before the world, by thus fostering Human Slavery and proclaiming ourselves, at the same time, the sole friends of Human Freedom." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois" (October 4, 1854), p. 242.

"Without slavery the rebellion could never have existed; without slavery it could not continue." Lincoln's Second Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862.

"I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself. I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 255.

"If we cannot give freedom to every creature, let us do nothing that will impose slavery upon any other creature." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Chicago, Illinois" (July 10, 1858), p. 501.

"I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any abolitionist." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Chicago, Illinois" (July 10, 1858), p. 492.

"I did say, at Chicago, in my speech there, that I do wish to see the spread of slavery arrested and to see it placed where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in course of ultimate extinction." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois" (July 17, 1858), p. 514.

"Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man's nature - opposition to it, is his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 271.

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II,(August 1, 1858?), p. 532.
Lincoln apparently changed his mind a lot... Slavery bad in 1854; Slavery good in 1858, then in that same year, bad. even doing so within the same month... Hmmm... he even allowed slavery to continue during the war and well after. Ulysses S. Grant was allowed to keep and retain his slaves because "during these hard times, good help was hard to find." Anyway, the quotes I posted were more about how he viewed and thought of the black race. Apparently, Lincoln was a bit of a white supremacist, not only against blacks, but Native Americans too. More to come...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#9354 Jun 10, 2012
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
You are happy with your faith. Good
I think faith is nonsense, nothing personal.
I find it odd that people have so little curiosity, are willing to accept without question, and abandon reality.
Frankly, religious dogma, anyone's, belongs in the 'personal hobby' category.
Mormon vs Muslim/Christian is like Mickey Mouse vs Bugs Bunny.
And nothing personal, but I find it odd that people are so willing to accept, without question, the findings of "science", when "science" is based only upon the information, and interpretation of it, that is available at the time.

Scientific "absolutes" have changed so often, just in my lifetime, that I find faith in the findings of science to be more vacuous than faith in God..since in order to believe in scientific findings one must put their faith in other people, called "Scientists".

In that regard, "reality" is equally subjective regardless of what dogma you choose to believe.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-famous-sci...

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/...

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/thaler10/thal...

Since: Jun 12

Redwood City, CA

#9355 Jun 10, 2012
fedupwiththemess wrote:
I do. They do not go by the bible nor does the bible mention mormonism it it. They have created a so called "extension" or another book of the bible calling it the book of mormon. Mormonism was created by a horny man wanting to screw more than one woman so he made it up saying GOD told him to do so. Women fell for it.
I doubt whether it is true
Imhotep

Casselberry, FL

#9356 Jun 10, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
And nothing personal, but I find it odd that people are so willing to accept, without question, the findings of "science", when "science" is based only upon the information, and interpretation of it, that is available at the time.
Scientific "absolutes" have changed so often, just in my lifetime, that I find faith in the findings of science to be more vacuous than faith in God..since in order to believe in scientific findings one must put their faith in other people, called "Scientists".
In that regard, "reality" is equally subjective regardless of what dogma you choose to believe.
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-famous-sci...
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/...
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/thaler10/thal...
Evolution is fact.
Miracles do not exist.
Gods are created by man.

Even though all religions exist, there is no such scientific evidence that will favor anyone of them. Books written in the ancient times were by people who didn't have an understanding of the scientific aspect of the world. They were mere observers when they wrote the books, with no evidential backing to support their claims.

These books are not worthy of being taken seriously even if they have a fan base of millions. Many superstitions are still followed all over the world which is laughed upon by people from other countries.

Religious followers all the time ask atheist's to prove the non-existence of God but are in a fix when asked to prove the existence of God.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
~Carl Sagan

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#9358 Jun 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
This message by Sandra Tanner is a good response to No Surprise:
HOW DO WE TEST A PROPHET?
By Sandra Tanner
Frequently a person will say to me that the Mormon (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) missionaries have challenged them to pray about Joseph Smith's message and the Book of Mormon. But is this the proper way to determine if his message is truly from God? The Bible never says to test a prophet by prayer, but by his message. Deuteronomy 13 warns that a prophet must teach correctly about God. Chapter 18 tells us the prophet's prophecies must come to pass. Paul tells us in Galatians 1:8-9 that even angels can appear with a wrong message. We are to compare the message with the teachings of the apostles. In Acts 17:10-12, when Paul went to Berea to proclaim Jesus as the Messiah to the Jews, we read "these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed..." Note, Paul did not tell them to go home and pray about it. They were praised for searching the scriptures, in other words, testing the message to see if it agreed with the prophecies of the Messiah.
Note that John made an appeal to fact, not feeling, when he declared "that which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;...that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us..." (I John 1:1-3) He continued in the next chapter, verse 21, "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth...let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning...." Chapter 4, verse 1, "beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Tanners are anti-Mormon just like the Pharisees were anti-Christian. Therefore anything they say will be biased in nature.
By what the Tanners claim of how to test a prophet, well lets go over this test with the NT apostles.
Peter denied the savior he knew, 3 times he denied him. If Smith had denied Jesus on three occasions, anti-Mormons would have used those denials to prove Smith a fraud for time and eternity, regardless if it was said God forgave him. But hypocrites will be hypocrites and what's good for Smith can't be used for others according to Dana :)
Peter tried to split open the skull of a Roman soldier doing his duty. Peter, the all loving gracious apostle thought not to hold back his sword. He instead thought nothing to kill a man.
One apostle was a murderer of Christians.
Another didn't believe in the resurrection Jesus taught him of personally. He needed actual PROOF that Jesus had came back from the dead OR ELSE he wouldn't believe it! Talk about a faithful apostle!
Some of the other apostles doubted Jesus ability to be resurrected.
Another apostle was consumed with lust for money and sold his savior for some pocket change!
lolol....and you find Smith lacking in the test of what makes a prophet? According to these tests, many of the apostles failed to prove actual apostle/prophetic positions they held.
If the present apostles in the Mormon church were to have all committed the same exact offenses the NT apostles committed, anti-Mormons would have a field day for a thousand years or more to show how "un-Christian" Mormons really are. Yet they won't use those same measurements against the NT apostles and all Christians of that day as false Christians...lolol....can we say HYPOCRITES to the core of their thinking!...Fricking stupid idiots.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#9359 Jun 10, 2012
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution is fact.
Miracles do not exist.
Gods are created by man.
Even though all religions exist, there is no such scientific evidence that will favor anyone of them. Books written in the ancient times were by people who didn't have an understanding of the scientific aspect of the world. They were mere observers when they wrote the books, with no evidential backing to support their claims.
These books are not worthy of being taken seriously even if they have a fan base of millions. Many superstitions are still followed all over the world which is laughed upon by people from other countries.
Religious followers all the time ask atheist's to prove the non-existence of God but are in a fix when asked to prove the existence of God.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
~Carl Sagan
Evolution is a fact.
But concerning circumstantial evidence, more of it exists to show evidence of a god then evidence exists to show a god doesn't exist.
We can start with some base scientific questions.
How was the earth positioned so perfectly that it's position to the sun allows for life? We have no evidence in any existing universe that this has happened before.
Our solar system was born some 4.5 BILLION years ago. That means our existence was a 1 in a 4.5 billion year chance of happening. And people like you with tunnel vision accept that remote chance of happening as what? A normal possibility?
Yeah right...lolol

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#9360 Jun 10, 2012
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
Lincoln apparently changed his mind a lot... Slavery bad in 1854; Slavery good in 1858, then in that same year, bad. even doing so within the same month... Hmmm... he even allowed slavery to continue during the war and well after. Ulysses S. Grant was allowed to keep and retain his slaves because "during these hard times, good help was hard to find." Anyway, the quotes I posted were more about how he viewed and thought of the black race. Apparently, Lincoln was a bit of a white supremacist, not only against blacks, but Native Americans too. More to come...
He did state while being against it, he wouldn't have changed it in several quotes. The South jumped the gun. He allowed it during the war in the states that didn't join the South so that they wouldn't join the South. He was more concerned about keeping the Union together.
Redman

Choctaw, OK

#9361 Jun 10, 2012
Mormonism and Christianity are so closely related only God would know if both will be in heaven!

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